This game is a wealth of information but it's completely presented in a way that makes it unapproachable any new players. Dear God I can't even imagine the veterans of a hard time with it. I'm having a better grasp of the system and reading the classic Traveller then 5 and it's so infuriating!! Because I love the mechanics character Creations really cool if they just made it more clear. So it's traveller 5 didn't need to get a new players or is it a tool box for old school Veterans?
Traveller 5 game or tool kit
- Thread starter JoelMB12
- Start date
David Johansen
SOC-12
Well, we heard this enough a couple years ago until they banned the topic.
Just so you know.
It can be both. Certainly T5's appeal leans towards the interests of people who love to tinker and build and explore things.
A more honest assessment might be to break down and graph how many games T5 is made up of and how they interact. Really, that might be very handy for some people.
Like the character generation flow charts but mapping the functionality of the whole system.
Just so you know.
It can be both. Certainly T5's appeal leans towards the interests of people who love to tinker and build and explore things.
A more honest assessment might be to break down and graph how many games T5 is made up of and how they interact. Really, that might be very handy for some people.
Like the character generation flow charts but mapping the functionality of the whole system.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
It depends on how well you know Classic Traveller. There is a lot of excess material in T5, and a lot of good material. Starter Traveller and The Traveller Book are available on download from DriveThru, along with the Traveller Supplements and adventures, which, with some tweaking, could be used with T5.
I have Mongoose 1 Edition and Mongoose 2 Edition, but only bought Mongoose 1 to use the Attack Squadron: Roswell game. I much prefer Classic.
If you are starting a campaign for a group of new players, I would recommend one of the Classic versions, LBB/Starter Traveller/The Traveller Book and add material from T5. The Traveller Book has some interesting variants that do not show up elsewhere, like Wet Navy skills.
FWIW, I recently read through the Cepheus Engine (basically Mongoose Traveller stripped of Mongoose IP and with some of the author's own preferences thrown in). I liked it as a readable, coherent document.
I also love the detailed mechanics in T5 that balance abstraction with simulation delightfully. But the original T5 was not readable and coherent in the way that Mongoose and the Traveller SRD are. I'm reading through T5.09 right now (finally got around to it) to test this again, and I'm finding a vast improvement if still some errata.
I think what we're looking for is the Players Handbook (robject has another thread calling for views on what would be in it) which is a cut-down version that provides that overall picture with the BBB providing more detail for us mechanics-lovers. So we need to know about UPPs, but not Genetics, Clones, Chimeras and Sophont generation to get a start on the game.
I also love the detailed mechanics in T5 that balance abstraction with simulation delightfully. But the original T5 was not readable and coherent in the way that Mongoose and the Traveller SRD are. I'm reading through T5.09 right now (finally got around to it) to test this again, and I'm finding a vast improvement if still some errata.
I think what we're looking for is the Players Handbook (robject has another thread calling for views on what would be in it) which is a cut-down version that provides that overall picture with the BBB providing more detail for us mechanics-lovers. So we need to know about UPPs, but not Genetics, Clones, Chimeras and Sophont generation to get a start on the game.
Ackehece
SOC-13
Please Reference T5.1 as it is much more coherent in organization. The consensus is Toolkit + Game Core. Almost all setting information has been expunged and that is the reason it is more toolkit. That said T5 definitely has a game in there.
:alpha:
This has been a verboten topic but since the fires have banked for a while it is still a worthwhile question. :CoW: I rather suspect that everyone has settled now on Toolkit + Game (rather than Game + Toolkit)
It is definitely not all toolkit and definitely not all game.
mega:
:alpha:
This has been a verboten topic but since the fires have banked for a while it is still a worthwhile question. :CoW: I rather suspect that everyone has settled now on Toolkit + Game (rather than Game + Toolkit)
It is definitely not all toolkit and definitely not all game.
mega:As far as I'm concerned, the topic should not be forbidden when posted by people new to the game, which OP clearly is. (But, our mods are the ultimate judge of that.)
Us oldsters need to temper our voices, though, lest Aramis take notice. But, I think we can be civil about it, especially when we know we're adopting a new player.
And, I agree with the overall sentiment of the replies: 5.1 is a game. It's complete (perhaps TOO complete). It still have rough edges, but we're getting darned close.
And, the organization is consistent. It's an engineering organization structure (summary description, then checklist, then full details). I think it will sell really well as a PDF or eBook, if cross-references are included. With cross-references and a split screen, this game would be immensely easier to understand. You can kind of see what I mean by installing two PDF readers and put the manual up in both, side-by-side.
Us oldsters need to temper our voices, though, lest Aramis take notice. But, I think we can be civil about it, especially when we know we're adopting a new player.
And, I agree with the overall sentiment of the replies: 5.1 is a game. It's complete (perhaps TOO complete). It still have rough edges, but we're getting darned close.
And, the organization is consistent. It's an engineering organization structure (summary description, then checklist, then full details). I think it will sell really well as a PDF or eBook, if cross-references are included. With cross-references and a split screen, this game would be immensely easier to understand. You can kind of see what I mean by installing two PDF readers and put the manual up in both, side-by-side.
As long as no one is putting a 0 on either side of game:toolkit ratios, discussing the game:toolkit ratio of T5 isn't itself an issue when people remain polite.
The only actual banned topics involve ⌧ography, real world religion, real world politics, or any thread claiming any edition is "not a game" or "not worth playing."
There's a lot of language banned, but as long as you avoid sounding like a combat arms NCO or an angry old CPO with no officers in yelling earshot, you're probably not using it.
I fall into the "T5.x is mostly toolkit, and requires a lot of prep to play well. More than I'm willing to do for a game. But it has a lot of stuff I can backport to other editions or my own houserule set." Oh, and I dislike the task system at its very core. (Despite having written and used a somewhat similar one in the early 1990's for my trek games. I stopped using it because I came to be VERY aware of its flaws, and they drove me batty.)
The only actual banned topics involve ⌧ography, real world religion, real world politics, or any thread claiming any edition is "not a game" or "not worth playing."
There's a lot of language banned, but as long as you avoid sounding like a combat arms NCO or an angry old CPO with no officers in yelling earshot, you're probably not using it.
I fall into the "T5.x is mostly toolkit, and requires a lot of prep to play well. More than I'm willing to do for a game. But it has a lot of stuff I can backport to other editions or my own houserule set." Oh, and I dislike the task system at its very core. (Despite having written and used a somewhat similar one in the early 1990's for my trek games. I stopped using it because I came to be VERY aware of its flaws, and they drove me batty.)
I fall into the "T5 is mostly toolkit, and requires the use of an existing setting (e.g. classic Traveller adventures, Library Data, your hand-rolled setting, or other) to play. Similarly, its core completeness and typical Traveller modularity makes it valuable for porting to other rulesets" category.
Original_Carl
SOC-12
I consider every RPG to be a toolkit, and T5 is one of the most comprehensive toolkits I've ever used. However, it's not for the faint-of-heart. You have to really want to run a T5 game to do it, and it's best if you're familiar with some other edition of Traveller. It also helps if you and your players don't mind a bit of handwavery in lieu specific implementations of rules -- melee combat, personal interactions, and vehicle chases, for instance. I have some short-cuts for these that I use, and I roll flux a lot. I don't like to get bogged down by complex rule executions and don't feel obligated to follow any rulebook to the letter. That said, I do my best to understand a rule before I handwave it.
I started my first T5 game when it was still in pre-release, and I ported it from Mongoose Traveller (pocket edition, still the best modern implementation, IMO). My second game I started after I got my BBB from the Kickstarter and I've been running it ever since. We meet every other Saturday. It's a lot of fun and I look forward to my sessions.
All told, counting the Beta game and the MgT game, I had about 3 years of prep, playtesting, and picaresque game sessions before I launched my current campaign. I wrote some software tools to help with MTU generation and added some of my own data and derived-data. I built several of my own starships from specs from other Traveller editions, like the Yacht Type-Y and the Scout/Courier Type-S. I used RObject's tools for a lot of stuff until they went away. Heldenhaufen.de/T5 had some good stuff, too, but I don't think it's there anymore either. The Traveller Wiki will help a lot with adding depth and color to your Traveller game. It has helped a lot with mine.
Two things stand out to me as lessons learned in all this. First, I should have read E.C. Tubb's Dumarest of Earth books sooner. If you haven't read any of them, go do that right now. Second, I left MgT behind because there wasn't enough depth for a long-term game, IMO. T5 with it's toolkit approach to defining the game was a significant leap -- maybe too significant, but I've never been one to shy away from a challenge of that nature.
My advice for newcomers to Traveller is run a picareque game using MgT or the LBBs. Lay out your adventure, roll up the characters and run 3-5 sessions. If you want more -- and I'm refering to stuff like transhumanism, alien species creation, and making your own stuff (vehicles, starships, guns, armor, gear, etc.) port in rules from T5 as-needed. They're mostly compatible with a bit of Handwavium to mortar the gaps.
That's more than I've written in a while. I hope someone finds it helpful.
I started my first T5 game when it was still in pre-release, and I ported it from Mongoose Traveller (pocket edition, still the best modern implementation, IMO). My second game I started after I got my BBB from the Kickstarter and I've been running it ever since. We meet every other Saturday. It's a lot of fun and I look forward to my sessions.
All told, counting the Beta game and the MgT game, I had about 3 years of prep, playtesting, and picaresque game sessions before I launched my current campaign. I wrote some software tools to help with MTU generation and added some of my own data and derived-data. I built several of my own starships from specs from other Traveller editions, like the Yacht Type-Y and the Scout/Courier Type-S. I used RObject's tools for a lot of stuff until they went away. Heldenhaufen.de/T5 had some good stuff, too, but I don't think it's there anymore either. The Traveller Wiki will help a lot with adding depth and color to your Traveller game. It has helped a lot with mine.
Two things stand out to me as lessons learned in all this. First, I should have read E.C. Tubb's Dumarest of Earth books sooner. If you haven't read any of them, go do that right now. Second, I left MgT behind because there wasn't enough depth for a long-term game, IMO. T5 with it's toolkit approach to defining the game was a significant leap -- maybe too significant, but I've never been one to shy away from a challenge of that nature.
My advice for newcomers to Traveller is run a picareque game using MgT or the LBBs. Lay out your adventure, roll up the characters and run 3-5 sessions. If you want more -- and I'm refering to stuff like transhumanism, alien species creation, and making your own stuff (vehicles, starships, guns, armor, gear, etc.) port in rules from T5 as-needed. They're mostly compatible with a bit of Handwavium to mortar the gaps.
That's more than I've written in a while. I hope someone finds it helpful.
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