Traveller: Stale Bread?

[Enoki]

I met an architect that enjoyed using Traveller to just design starships. I have some of his design drawings, the usual size of such prints for homes and buildings. He never really played the game, just made ship designs.
There are lots of ways to play or enjoy Traveller other than just as an RPG. That is one of its strengths, but also one of its weaknesses.

 

[aramis]

The cognitive dissonance is often due to the mistaken idea that Traveller is only about the Third Imperium...

And for more than 3 editions that was in fact the status... MT, TNE, T4, and GT/GTIW.

For many CT players, especially post 1981, it was as much about the award winning setting as the award winning game engine.

There's no reason one can't do non-OTU games in MT, GT, or GTIW, but it wasn't called out as so.
TTNE did call it out, but only in FF&S...
T4 also called it out, but focused so much on supporting the OTU tech for the timeframe that it was hard to run the earlier editions' subsettings. (It's hard to run the classic 1107 OTU in the Solomani Rime when the book only covers to TL12.

For GT and GTIW, there's no reason to use them for non-OTU settings, except for understanding/integrating GT:FT. And it has several other low effort needed sci-fi settings already, including G:Transhuman Space, G: Prime Directive, G: Space, Vorkosigan Adventures, and older editions include G: Humanx Commonwealth (Based upon the Flinx adventures), G: Lensman, G: Uplift, G:Terradyne, G:Tales of the Solar Patrol, and G: Alpha Centauri... and that's just the space opera stuff. Most of which is before 2013...

G:Space has a much more realistic system generation.
G:Space has a more realistic ship system
G:Humanx has a much better space opera combat system and a much more consistent ship system.
G:Lensman likewise has a different combat system.

Further, the only reason for SJG to have paid Marc for rights was for the setting, since GT used no actual Traveller mechanics outside worlds...
So, except for a few Old Guard types, and the Mongoose and CE recent additions, Traveller has always been OTU centric. (Unless you count T:2300 as Traveller...)

Note also: T5 is every bit as grounded in the OTU as MT, TNE, or T4 were/are. The OTU is in Marc's head, and it has become a major part of his conception of Traveller.

 

[Dragoner]

I have a pretty fresh setting in Solis People of the Sun it's cepheus so maybe "not traveller" still though.

 

[Spinward Scout]

I have a pretty fresh setting in Solis People of the Sun it's cepheus so maybe "not traveller" still though.

Cepheus is supposed to be compatible, but the skill difficulties are more like MegaTraveller, if I remember.

 

[Dragoner]

Cepheus is supposed to be compatible, but the skill difficulties are more like MegaTraveller, if I remember.

It is Mongoose 1e, MegaTraveller is different. Edit: Just to say I have played SPOTS with Classic, Mgt1, even m-space which is a sort of RuneQuest/Mythras/BRP/d00 variant; also I own most of the "core" of mgt2, and it would work fine.

 

[Spinward Scout]

It is Mongoose 1e, MegaTraveller is different. Edit: Just to say I have played SPOTS with Classic, Mgt1, even m-space which is a sort of RuneQuest/Mythras/BRP/d00 variant; also I own most of the "core" of mgt2, and it would work fine.

Thanks, I had a feeling I had it wrong.

 

[Dragoner]

Thanks, I had a feeling I had it wrong.

I think mongoose pulls in some of megatraveller, though a more expert person on that rules set could reply, you are not necessarily wrong though.

 

[Jame]

I have a pretty fresh setting in Solis People of the Sun it's cepheus so maybe "not traveller" still though.

IMNHO, CE is just as much Traveller as any of the rest.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

Does it reflect current science and add to it or does it have a retro-setting. Can you recreate the latest sci-fi movies using traveller or not?

If the above are true, then traveller surely counts as fresh.

The big question is surely "How young are you feeling when you play the game?".
n.b. The mental age of participants may be questionable.

 

[mike wightman]

It can be used to run any setting you can imagine - if I can use it to run a setting based on The Culture then anything is passible.

 

[ShapeShifter]

Well, I grew up with Flash Gordon, so Earl Dumarest and Traveller are the new kids on the block!

The only glaringly obvious stuff -- with CT especially -- is the grossly outdated tech, like "tapes" as a data storage medium, and the fact that computer tech has leapt forward in my lifetime so quickly that it's outpaced other technologies, IMO. Traveller was published in 1977 --- the same year as that little-known art-film STAR WARS that revolutionised the conception of scifi forever, leaving almost anything else in the dust. It's hard for younger people to know what it was like before that cinematic -- and popcultural -- watershed, and the world and mechanics of CT are not futuristic, but of a quaint era in scifi much like 1930s pulp and ERB's Barsoomian oeuvre. Our knowledge of Astronomy too has made giant leaps forward since the late 60s: what was once theory is, in part, now fact (like black holes).

 

[Kakistocrat]

Our knowledge of Astronomy too has made giant leaps forward since the late 60s: what was once theory is, in part, now fact (like black holes).

Yup. I’m having a go at designing a three-dimensional subsector hex map roughly centered on Terra, and I can now include additional red dwarfs — with known exoplanets! — that, as far as I can determine, weren’t represented in CT’s Supplement 10 The Solomani Rim.

 

[ShapeShifter]

Yup. I’m having a go at designing a three-dimensional subsector hex map roughly centered on Terra, and I can now include additional red dwarfs — with known exoplanets! — that, as far as I can determine, weren’t represented in CT’s Supplement 10 The Solomani Rim.

3D maps?! Holy headache, Batman! When I was first intro'ed to CT about 15 years ago I was tempted to go the 3D route, but soon realised life is too short for three dimensions. (I should instead do a 2D map for a Planiverse RPG. Great book, BTW.)

 

[wellis]

3D maps?! Holy headache, Batman! When I was first intro'ed to CT about 15 years ago I was tempted to go the 3D route, but soon realised life is too short for three dimensions. (I should instead do a 2D map for a Planiverse RPG. Great book, BTW.)

There is also the Near Space Traveller-style map (for Cepheus Engine) that used then up-to-date knowledge in 2016 for its planets and such.

It's like quadruple the size of a standard subsector at 20 x 16 parsecs (I think that's a quadrant of a full sector?).

 

[mike wightman]

2016 you say?

So completely out of date then

 

[Kakistocrat]

3D maps?! Holy headache, Batman! When I was first intro’ed to CT about 15 years ago I was tempted to go the 3D route, but soon realised life is too short for three dimensions.

It’s actually not as difficult as it might seem — since the 2D map of the Sol subsector is not simply a flattened version of 3D space, changing the locations of systems (and where necessary, modifying the existing X-boat routes) to reflect 3D space is reasonably straightforward.

I’m thinking about changing the jump range from 1 parsec to √3̅ parsec, so that a ship can jump from one corner of a cubic parsec to its opposite corner. (A little retconning could be necessary to explain why α Centauri was not chosen as the initial target of Terra’s first jump, since it would be in range of a √3̅ parsec jump; Barnard’s Star is a bit farther than √3̅ parsec from Sol.)

 

[Kakistocrat]

[The Near Space Traveller-style map is] like quadruple the size of a standard subsector at 20 × 16 parsecs (I think that’s a quadrant of a full sector?).

My initial design is aimed at replacing a 32 × 40 sector (with 1280 2D hexes) with a 12 × 12 × 9 sector (with 1296 3D “hexes”). The 2D sector, comprised of sixteen 8 × 10 subsectors (with 80 2D hexes each), is replaced with a 3D sector of six 4 × 6 × 9 subsectors (with 216 3D “hexes” each). I suspect that the 3D subsectors will be sparser than the 2D subsectors, since I imagine that the 2D map is largely based on compressing a 3D map (of however many parsecs thickness) into a one-parsec thick layer.

Each 3D subsector is represented by an 8 × 9 hex sheet; three mutually adjacent 2D hexes represent one 3D “hex”. Each of the trio of 2D hexes represents three non-contiguous 3D height layers; one represents layers 1 (the “lowest”), 4, and 7; another represents layers 2, 5, and 8; and the third represents layers 3, 6, and 9 (the “highest”). When a world is in a hex, the circle representing it is smallest when it’s in layer 1, and is largest when it’s in layer 9. A world in a layer 1/4/7 hex is offset left of center, and one in a layer 3/6/9 hex is offset right of center. More than one world can be in a hex; for example, one hex has both YZ Ceti (in layer 1) and Lalande 21185 (in layer 7), and another hex has both Procyon and Luyten’s Star in layer 6 (it has two world circles in the center of its hex; the systems are less than a parsec from each other).

Each hex has twelve 3D neighbors; six at the same level (which are two 2D hexes away), three at the level above (which are half of the neighboring 2D hexes), and three at the level below (which are the other neighboring 2D hexes). Its model is something like nine layers of marbles, with each layer packed closely together, in a hexagon pattern. If the first layer of marbles is the bottom layer, then the second layer will be offset from the first, and the third layer will be offset from the second, but the fourth layer will be aligned with the first layer in the Z axis, and so on until the ninth layer is aligned with the sixth layer.

Although there are seventy-two 2D hexes in a 3D subsector, only 18 systems in 16 2D hexes are present in the Sol 3D subsector (that includes some systems that weren’t in the original Sol subsector, but I didn’t presume that all nearby stars have worlds), so a 3D subsector has a much sparser system density than a 2D subsector. I see this as a good thing, as it will allow for untangled color-coded jump distances when the hex grid doesn’t align with the intended distance — for example, α Centauri is placed as though it were a neighboring system (i.e. two 2D hexes away) from Sol, although it requires jump-2 to get there from Terra. (This is an example where a square grid might have been a better representation than a hex grid, since α Centauri is roughly 0.9 parsec away from Terra along both the X and Y axes, and almost identical in the Z axis.) The distance to Barnard’s Star from Sol better suits the hex grid, since it is located two jump-1s (i.e. four 2D hexes away) from Terra.

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

As a fan of Traveller who was born long after the CT-era heyday, I've always had a nagging question at the back of my mind that a friend has recently reminded me of.

Just how "fresh" is Traveller?

From chatting to some fellow TTRPG enjoyers, I got the (unfair) impression that, to them, Traveller is mostly thought of as a dead or dying game, with a fanbase consisting of a few middle-aged conservative guys who don't know how to let go of something, and are hostile to new publications and new players/GMs.

While I know this is a false impression (young, sprightly me and my friends being counterexamples), the question remains. I've had zero contact with Traveller fans in the real world, aside from my party, so it's difficult to ascertain both the present-day popularity of Traveller and the primary demographics from my point of view.

This post is not intended to spark arguments. I'm just curious on a personal level as to how popular Traveller is, and to whom it appeals. Personal anecdotes going against the above stereotyping are welcomed

I'm late to the party here, but since most of the younger crowd that I know are into science fiction based on anime - I can say that the latest version of Traveller can be used for Space Battleship Yamato, Gundam (UC setting, IBO, or tWfM), Ghost in the Shell, Knights of Sidonia, Cowboy Bebop, the Orbital Children, Cyberpunk: Edgerunners (although Cyberpunk Red is a better fit), Legend of the Galactic Heroes, and other medium hard science fiction with ease.

When people want to talk down Traveller, they like to say that it hasn't evolved since it came out in 1977 and that computers are all huge and that you can die in character creation. Yet they can't give any specifics. Usually because they are uninformed, and want to remain that way because they don't want to have their opinions challenged.

Oh, well. Just my 0.02cr worth.

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Just a little extra tidbit.

The Traveller RPG Facebook Group has 10,400 members (6000 active).
The Traveller RPG subReddit has 11,100 members.

That is quite a bit for a bunch of stale bread. I like to think of us more like good bourbon......

 

[mike wightman]

And then there are people who come here but avoid antisocial media - me for one