The Rebellion and World War One?

[kafka47]

Somewhat, off topic...has anyone played the game of the assassination on Capital whereby players assume different roles of the major figures of the day.

I did try this in an early MT game and found Dulinor & Windhook team up in a firefight in the bowells of the Imperial Palace before seizing the Flight Controls and sending way up and then way down thereby eliminating the Lucan factor before escaping. The Moot did not confirm Dulinor causing him to initate the Civil War over the Moot's hesitancy. Thereby, initating a Jules Caesar type Campaign by laying siege to critical Imperial planets.

It was an excercise in pure fun & fantasy.

 

[kafka47]

Somewhat, off topic...has anyone played the game of the assassination on Capital whereby players assume different roles of the major figures of the day.

I did try this in an early MT game and found Dulinor & Windhook team up in a firefight in the bowells of the Imperial Palace before seizing the Flight Controls and sending way up and then way down thereby eliminating the Lucan factor before escaping. The Moot did not confirm Dulinor causing him to initate the Civil War over the Moot's hesitancy. Thereby, initating a Jules Caesar type Campaign by laying siege to critical Imperial planets.

It was an excercise in pure fun & fantasy.

 

[kafka47]

Somewhat, off topic...has anyone played the game of the assassination on Capital whereby players assume different roles of the major figures of the day.

I did try this in an early MT game and found Dulinor & Windhook team up in a firefight in the bowells of the Imperial Palace before seizing the Flight Controls and sending way up and then way down thereby eliminating the Lucan factor before escaping. The Moot did not confirm Dulinor causing him to initate the Civil War over the Moot's hesitancy. Thereby, initating a Jules Caesar type Campaign by laying siege to critical Imperial planets.

It was an excercise in pure fun & fantasy.

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by kaladorn:

We don't have enough detail to know how it was. But I'd suggest Capital would be almost impossible to cordon. The number of life and hereditary nobles around that might be inconvenienced or irritated (and who could really ruin a Captain's career) is fairly high. Something tells me the Navy would be leery (even in this situation) of holding up too many ships. [/QB]

All valid points. The flip side of that arguement is, the Emperor has been shot - that should buy the Navy a little leeway on how pissed-off the inconvenienced nobility would react. And if that doesn't, what would?

If someone shoots the US President and runs away, that city is getting locked down for a while. Anyone from the other party who starts throwing his weight around in an effort to get past the cordon is probably going to become very well acquainted with many security guys in suits. [This is one of those experiments I emphatically suggest you do not try, by the way.]

Would it be a big challenge to police a system? Absolutely. But even if an entire fleet is on coffee break, you've still got other elements available.

Logic dictates that traffic would be streamed into certain flight paths - if you ignore the 'rules of the road' when approaching /leaving a sea port or an airport, you're in trouble - and if your security squadrons are positioned intelligently, then you should at least have a chance to stop some of the traffic.

Would there be confusion? Of course. Enough to get away? Maybe. But if I had just seen the Archduke shoot the Emperor, I'd start the navy looking for the Archduke's ship. If he's not on board then you're definately in the 'needle in the haystack' situation, but at least make the effort.

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by kaladorn:

We don't have enough detail to know how it was. But I'd suggest Capital would be almost impossible to cordon. The number of life and hereditary nobles around that might be inconvenienced or irritated (and who could really ruin a Captain's career) is fairly high. Something tells me the Navy would be leery (even in this situation) of holding up too many ships. [/QB]

All valid points. The flip side of that arguement is, the Emperor has been shot - that should buy the Navy a little leeway on how pissed-off the inconvenienced nobility would react. And if that doesn't, what would?

If someone shoots the US President and runs away, that city is getting locked down for a while. Anyone from the other party who starts throwing his weight around in an effort to get past the cordon is probably going to become very well acquainted with many security guys in suits. [This is one of those experiments I emphatically suggest you do not try, by the way.]

Would it be a big challenge to police a system? Absolutely. But even if an entire fleet is on coffee break, you've still got other elements available.

Logic dictates that traffic would be streamed into certain flight paths - if you ignore the 'rules of the road' when approaching /leaving a sea port or an airport, you're in trouble - and if your security squadrons are positioned intelligently, then you should at least have a chance to stop some of the traffic.

Would there be confusion? Of course. Enough to get away? Maybe. But if I had just seen the Archduke shoot the Emperor, I'd start the navy looking for the Archduke's ship. If he's not on board then you're definately in the 'needle in the haystack' situation, but at least make the effort.

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by kaladorn:

We don't have enough detail to know how it was. But I'd suggest Capital would be almost impossible to cordon. The number of life and hereditary nobles around that might be inconvenienced or irritated (and who could really ruin a Captain's career) is fairly high. Something tells me the Navy would be leery (even in this situation) of holding up too many ships. [/QB]

All valid points. The flip side of that arguement is, the Emperor has been shot - that should buy the Navy a little leeway on how pissed-off the inconvenienced nobility would react. And if that doesn't, what would?

If someone shoots the US President and runs away, that city is getting locked down for a while. Anyone from the other party who starts throwing his weight around in an effort to get past the cordon is probably going to become very well acquainted with many security guys in suits. [This is one of those experiments I emphatically suggest you do not try, by the way.]

Would it be a big challenge to police a system? Absolutely. But even if an entire fleet is on coffee break, you've still got other elements available.

Logic dictates that traffic would be streamed into certain flight paths - if you ignore the 'rules of the road' when approaching /leaving a sea port or an airport, you're in trouble - and if your security squadrons are positioned intelligently, then you should at least have a chance to stop some of the traffic.

Would there be confusion? Of course. Enough to get away? Maybe. But if I had just seen the Archduke shoot the Emperor, I'd start the navy looking for the Archduke's ship. If he's not on board then you're definately in the 'needle in the haystack' situation, but at least make the effort.

 

[aramis]

When presidents get shot, there literally are not enough available troops to adequately cordon off the city, especially given the massive number of roads into and out of most cities where there is congestion enough to allow a shooter.

The most recent case (Regan) was a fairly short ranged shot by a deranged man. The other cases resulted in manhunts or foot chases.

Likewise in most other countries... cities are just TOO big to cordon off without major time lag unless they are carefully designed for that very purpose. A purpose which is, by the way, going to interfere with the flow of goods and persons essential to a city functioning.

Now, take a world. THe one world likely to have literally thousands of ships at any given time flying about. Any one of which can jump out at any point if they have the fuel. If he had an escape planned, the initiative is to the assassin.

Taking Dulinor's assault upon the Strephon in the throne room as a case in point. He was familiar with both the security protocols and the physical layout. He had no one to leak it locally before hand, so his prep was not subject to final plan leakage except by direct action of a participant. He could plan his escape by having his guards unit come in to grab him, probably off a subcutaneous transponder, with some simple trigger. That escape vessel could have taken off on a cross-world flight to some other point, and picked up the escape speeder, then bailed at high thrust straight up, jumping out at 10 diameters... now, to make it much more difficult, have a dozen speeders and ships, all on the same trigger, grabbing different (but biometrically similar) individuals on other buisines in the area. Have them all rendezvous J1 away with a large fleet element, and you have a clean getaway.

But, having such a plan implies quite strongly that he had no intention of staying.

Perhaps we are looking at his goal wrong. Perhaps the goal of Dulinor was NOT the proclaimed reforms, but to destroy the imperium as an imperfect instrument, and later rebuild out from Illellish into the chaos imperia.

 

[aramis]

When presidents get shot, there literally are not enough available troops to adequately cordon off the city, especially given the massive number of roads into and out of most cities where there is congestion enough to allow a shooter.

The most recent case (Regan) was a fairly short ranged shot by a deranged man. The other cases resulted in manhunts or foot chases.

Likewise in most other countries... cities are just TOO big to cordon off without major time lag unless they are carefully designed for that very purpose. A purpose which is, by the way, going to interfere with the flow of goods and persons essential to a city functioning.

Now, take a world. THe one world likely to have literally thousands of ships at any given time flying about. Any one of which can jump out at any point if they have the fuel. If he had an escape planned, the initiative is to the assassin.

Taking Dulinor's assault upon the Strephon in the throne room as a case in point. He was familiar with both the security protocols and the physical layout. He had no one to leak it locally before hand, so his prep was not subject to final plan leakage except by direct action of a participant. He could plan his escape by having his guards unit come in to grab him, probably off a subcutaneous transponder, with some simple trigger. That escape vessel could have taken off on a cross-world flight to some other point, and picked up the escape speeder, then bailed at high thrust straight up, jumping out at 10 diameters... now, to make it much more difficult, have a dozen speeders and ships, all on the same trigger, grabbing different (but biometrically similar) individuals on other buisines in the area. Have them all rendezvous J1 away with a large fleet element, and you have a clean getaway.

But, having such a plan implies quite strongly that he had no intention of staying.

Perhaps we are looking at his goal wrong. Perhaps the goal of Dulinor was NOT the proclaimed reforms, but to destroy the imperium as an imperfect instrument, and later rebuild out from Illellish into the chaos imperia.

 

[aramis]

When presidents get shot, there literally are not enough available troops to adequately cordon off the city, especially given the massive number of roads into and out of most cities where there is congestion enough to allow a shooter.

The most recent case (Regan) was a fairly short ranged shot by a deranged man. The other cases resulted in manhunts or foot chases.

Likewise in most other countries... cities are just TOO big to cordon off without major time lag unless they are carefully designed for that very purpose. A purpose which is, by the way, going to interfere with the flow of goods and persons essential to a city functioning.

Now, take a world. THe one world likely to have literally thousands of ships at any given time flying about. Any one of which can jump out at any point if they have the fuel. If he had an escape planned, the initiative is to the assassin.

Taking Dulinor's assault upon the Strephon in the throne room as a case in point. He was familiar with both the security protocols and the physical layout. He had no one to leak it locally before hand, so his prep was not subject to final plan leakage except by direct action of a participant. He could plan his escape by having his guards unit come in to grab him, probably off a subcutaneous transponder, with some simple trigger. That escape vessel could have taken off on a cross-world flight to some other point, and picked up the escape speeder, then bailed at high thrust straight up, jumping out at 10 diameters... now, to make it much more difficult, have a dozen speeders and ships, all on the same trigger, grabbing different (but biometrically similar) individuals on other buisines in the area. Have them all rendezvous J1 away with a large fleet element, and you have a clean getaway.

But, having such a plan implies quite strongly that he had no intention of staying.

Perhaps we are looking at his goal wrong. Perhaps the goal of Dulinor was NOT the proclaimed reforms, but to destroy the imperium as an imperfect instrument, and later rebuild out from Illellish into the chaos imperia.

 

[kaladorn]

Add to Aramis example the possibility that you have 'arranged' a number of incidents elsewhere in the system that will require intervention or investigation by the active and on-deck units likely to intercept you (freighter fire, lots of passengers in low berths... unexplained ship explosion.... GK! GK! GK!.... strange and unauthorized jump footprint in unauthorized place.... etc). This further cuts the odds since the fleets are not on red alert, they are just on daily routine.

All it takes for Dulinor to escape is confusion. We can't know how much effort he put into sewing that confusion nor can we know how close his escape was or what efforts the fleets made to stop him. We can only try to fill in some reasonable guesses on all fronts.

 

[kaladorn]

Add to Aramis example the possibility that you have 'arranged' a number of incidents elsewhere in the system that will require intervention or investigation by the active and on-deck units likely to intercept you (freighter fire, lots of passengers in low berths... unexplained ship explosion.... GK! GK! GK!.... strange and unauthorized jump footprint in unauthorized place.... etc). This further cuts the odds since the fleets are not on red alert, they are just on daily routine.

All it takes for Dulinor to escape is confusion. We can't know how much effort he put into sewing that confusion nor can we know how close his escape was or what efforts the fleets made to stop him. We can only try to fill in some reasonable guesses on all fronts.

 

[kaladorn]

Add to Aramis example the possibility that you have 'arranged' a number of incidents elsewhere in the system that will require intervention or investigation by the active and on-deck units likely to intercept you (freighter fire, lots of passengers in low berths... unexplained ship explosion.... GK! GK! GK!.... strange and unauthorized jump footprint in unauthorized place.... etc). This further cuts the odds since the fleets are not on red alert, they are just on daily routine.

All it takes for Dulinor to escape is confusion. We can't know how much effort he put into sewing that confusion nor can we know how close his escape was or what efforts the fleets made to stop him. We can only try to fill in some reasonable guesses on all fronts.

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by Aramis:
When presidents get shot, there literally are not enough available troops to adequately cordon off the city, especially given the massive number of roads into and out of most cities where there is congestion enough to allow a shooter.

True enough. You'd still expect them to try, though - and police don't have to worry about the shooter exiting through jumpspace. I'd forgotten about jumps from just outside the ten-diameter limit.

Which got me thinking, and I found the line in the RS where it said "The order to stop Dulinor's cruiser as it left the Capital system reached a system defense boat squadron commander just as Dulinor arrived at the system jump point." Which implies Dulinor was a pretty cool customer, cruising nonchalantly out to the jump point, which might have given people enough time to cut through some confusion.

Of course it says 'the' system jump point, not 'a' jump point, or at what radius it is at.

I suppose that after a few centuries of peace at Capital, a few procedures had been allowed to relax a little.

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by Aramis:
When presidents get shot, there literally are not enough available troops to adequately cordon off the city, especially given the massive number of roads into and out of most cities where there is congestion enough to allow a shooter.

True enough. You'd still expect them to try, though - and police don't have to worry about the shooter exiting through jumpspace. I'd forgotten about jumps from just outside the ten-diameter limit.

Which got me thinking, and I found the line in the RS where it said "The order to stop Dulinor's cruiser as it left the Capital system reached a system defense boat squadron commander just as Dulinor arrived at the system jump point." Which implies Dulinor was a pretty cool customer, cruising nonchalantly out to the jump point, which might have given people enough time to cut through some confusion.

Of course it says 'the' system jump point, not 'a' jump point, or at what radius it is at.

I suppose that after a few centuries of peace at Capital, a few procedures had been allowed to relax a little.

 

[jcrocker]

Originally posted by Aramis:
When presidents get shot, there literally are not enough available troops to adequately cordon off the city, especially given the massive number of roads into and out of most cities where there is congestion enough to allow a shooter.

True enough. You'd still expect them to try, though - and police don't have to worry about the shooter exiting through jumpspace. I'd forgotten about jumps from just outside the ten-diameter limit.

Which got me thinking, and I found the line in the RS where it said "The order to stop Dulinor's cruiser as it left the Capital system reached a system defense boat squadron commander just as Dulinor arrived at the system jump point." Which implies Dulinor was a pretty cool customer, cruising nonchalantly out to the jump point, which might have given people enough time to cut through some confusion.

Of course it says 'the' system jump point, not 'a' jump point, or at what radius it is at.

I suppose that after a few centuries of peace at Capital, a few procedures had been allowed to relax a little.

 

[aramis]

Jon, they don't bother. They cordon off an expanding zone around the offense in an attempt to secure the scene and the assassin. They also cordon off the treatment center and escort the ambulance.... At least according to the friends I've got who've served on presidential details (Both police on presidential and papal security task forces for local visits and a few marines I've known who were former presidential detail.)

See, the expanding zone method maximizes available manpower. It also tends to be sufficient to capture the offender.

In general, though, they get caught on the scene. (At least as a worldwide trend...) Most are proud of what they have done and WANT it known that they did it; most are religious or political fanatics. The few who get away, even if only in the short run, often appear to be paid assassins.

Which leaves us with: Dulinor must have either been
1) granted permission to be armed for his own defense in the Emperor's presence... (not implausible, considering their friendship...)
or
2) able to compromise the security and smuggle the weapon in...
or
3) In cahoots with the "Real Strephon", who wanted to name Dulinor heir, and didn't count on Iolanthe and the Empress being there... or wanting them dead, too...
4) In cahoots with the Double, who due to unplanned stuff wound up being the one executed...

I prefer a mix of 1 and 2...

 

[aramis]

Jon, they don't bother. They cordon off an expanding zone around the offense in an attempt to secure the scene and the assassin. They also cordon off the treatment center and escort the ambulance.... At least according to the friends I've got who've served on presidential details (Both police on presidential and papal security task forces for local visits and a few marines I've known who were former presidential detail.)

See, the expanding zone method maximizes available manpower. It also tends to be sufficient to capture the offender.

In general, though, they get caught on the scene. (At least as a worldwide trend...) Most are proud of what they have done and WANT it known that they did it; most are religious or political fanatics. The few who get away, even if only in the short run, often appear to be paid assassins.

Which leaves us with: Dulinor must have either been
1) granted permission to be armed for his own defense in the Emperor's presence... (not implausible, considering their friendship...)
or
2) able to compromise the security and smuggle the weapon in...
or
3) In cahoots with the "Real Strephon", who wanted to name Dulinor heir, and didn't count on Iolanthe and the Empress being there... or wanting them dead, too...
4) In cahoots with the Double, who due to unplanned stuff wound up being the one executed...

I prefer a mix of 1 and 2...

 

[aramis]

Jon, they don't bother. They cordon off an expanding zone around the offense in an attempt to secure the scene and the assassin. They also cordon off the treatment center and escort the ambulance.... At least according to the friends I've got who've served on presidential details (Both police on presidential and papal security task forces for local visits and a few marines I've known who were former presidential detail.)

See, the expanding zone method maximizes available manpower. It also tends to be sufficient to capture the offender.

In general, though, they get caught on the scene. (At least as a worldwide trend...) Most are proud of what they have done and WANT it known that they did it; most are religious or political fanatics. The few who get away, even if only in the short run, often appear to be paid assassins.

Which leaves us with: Dulinor must have either been
1) granted permission to be armed for his own defense in the Emperor's presence... (not implausible, considering their friendship...)
or
2) able to compromise the security and smuggle the weapon in...
or
3) In cahoots with the "Real Strephon", who wanted to name Dulinor heir, and didn't count on Iolanthe and the Empress being there... or wanting them dead, too...
4) In cahoots with the Double, who due to unplanned stuff wound up being the one executed...

I prefer a mix of 1 and 2...

 

[jcrocker]

No, I believe you, I just took some convincing, that's all. It seems a little counterintuitive, but I suppose that is with the benefit of hindsight. Or is an artefact of the artificial nature of the event, sicne it was a plot device to further the goal of the whole MegaTraveller system.

The weapon Dulinor carried - he openly wore his ceremonial magnum revolver as was his right as an Archduke of the 3rd Imperium. Apparantly many nobles get sidearm perks when meeting with the head of state. [See comment on plot devices, above.]

 

[jcrocker]

No, I believe you, I just took some convincing, that's all. It seems a little counterintuitive, but I suppose that is with the benefit of hindsight. Or is an artefact of the artificial nature of the event, sicne it was a plot device to further the goal of the whole MegaTraveller system.

The weapon Dulinor carried - he openly wore his ceremonial magnum revolver as was his right as an Archduke of the 3rd Imperium. Apparantly many nobles get sidearm perks when meeting with the head of state. [See comment on plot devices, above.]