The Rebellion and World War One?

[jcrocker]

Armed Nobles, Lack of Shooting Dulinor - added to my list of things that don't quite make sense.

And as much as I like MegaTraveller, the 'key incident' never really held water for me.

Historical Parallel - WW 1 shouldn't be the best example, since the Imperium was [at least in theory] one nation, ovbiously Europe wasn't. A really nasty civil war with multiple factions would be a better comparison, but I can't think of one right now. There should have been a few more constraints on the fissuring on the Imperium, but obviously it fell apart quickly enough.

Would they come to WW2? After the Hard Times, it would take a century or two to rebuild enough to think about such things, I believe. You can theorize any of a number of things in the meantime.

 

[jcrocker]

Armed Nobles, Lack of Shooting Dulinor - added to my list of things that don't quite make sense.

And as much as I like MegaTraveller, the 'key incident' never really held water for me.

Historical Parallel - WW 1 shouldn't be the best example, since the Imperium was [at least in theory] one nation, ovbiously Europe wasn't. A really nasty civil war with multiple factions would be a better comparison, but I can't think of one right now. There should have been a few more constraints on the fissuring on the Imperium, but obviously it fell apart quickly enough.

Would they come to WW2? After the Hard Times, it would take a century or two to rebuild enough to think about such things, I believe. You can theorize any of a number of things in the meantime.

 

[kaladorn]

I'm pretty sure that nobles can probably carry a sword in the presence of the King of England. A gun is an extension, but not so much, since I think that swords could be carried back when swords were the available weapon to the defenders. <shrug>

The fissuring of the Imperium was an end, not a logical progression. Ergo, there was some retconning of underlying issues that those of us from the CT world were totally unaware of (since they didn't previously exist!).

The Dulinor survival thing:
Yes, there would have been a bunch of Nobles. Perhaps very surprised nobles! Shocked... momentarily at a loss.. then realizing that yes, a number of them do have guns. But they probably don't have much armour. And the guys around the periphery (the loyal Imperial Gaurd... oh wait...) seem to be wearing Battle Dress and have suddenly morphed their sunburst over into an Illelish squiggle. And they have FGMP-15s. So, any noble that stepped out of line may have turned into a pile of ash. So perhaps that thought convinced them to pursue the better part of valour. After all, Dulinor had already gunned down all the visible heirs... and he may well have killed the others already....

Who knows, maybe their *were* a few other nobles (Life peers, from the military, for instance) who did try to take on Dulinor. We don't know how many people the Illelish Gaurd smoked.

We also know Strephon had cleared out a sizeable portion of the people, only a small group left. Maybe they were unarmed. Just because someone *can* carry a gun doesn't mean they would. Dulinor may have raised an eyebrow by coming in armed, but considering he probably just flew in on a fleet ship, that might have made it less obvious. Maybe he made a habit of travelling with the fleet armed, just as a symbol. Maybe anytime nobles travel off Capital they go armed. But since he just rolled in, maybe it was only a mild curiosity.

At the same time, the nobles who lived there or had been there for a long time (the hangers-on), might well have been unarmed.

There's a lot of grey areas you can fill in as to how this all plays out. I think I'm going to have to write up a version of this that is more fully detailed to try to make Dulinor's plan look sensible and explain how he could stand a good chance of success, and then examine how he failed.


I don't think there is any historical analog to the TU. Bits of it may (in some way) map to small bits of history, but I'm fairly sure that Marc has repeatedly decried people trying to pigeon hole the setting by using metaphors like 'age of sail' etc. Each one comes with baggage that is untrue. I don't find it so bad, as long as we keep in mind that any fit of an analog will be incomplete and rationalizing from an analog to aspects of the TU itself will be very problematic.

 

[kaladorn]

I'm pretty sure that nobles can probably carry a sword in the presence of the King of England. A gun is an extension, but not so much, since I think that swords could be carried back when swords were the available weapon to the defenders. <shrug>

The fissuring of the Imperium was an end, not a logical progression. Ergo, there was some retconning of underlying issues that those of us from the CT world were totally unaware of (since they didn't previously exist!).

The Dulinor survival thing:
Yes, there would have been a bunch of Nobles. Perhaps very surprised nobles! Shocked... momentarily at a loss.. then realizing that yes, a number of them do have guns. But they probably don't have much armour. And the guys around the periphery (the loyal Imperial Gaurd... oh wait...) seem to be wearing Battle Dress and have suddenly morphed their sunburst over into an Illelish squiggle. And they have FGMP-15s. So, any noble that stepped out of line may have turned into a pile of ash. So perhaps that thought convinced them to pursue the better part of valour. After all, Dulinor had already gunned down all the visible heirs... and he may well have killed the others already....

Who knows, maybe their *were* a few other nobles (Life peers, from the military, for instance) who did try to take on Dulinor. We don't know how many people the Illelish Gaurd smoked.

We also know Strephon had cleared out a sizeable portion of the people, only a small group left. Maybe they were unarmed. Just because someone *can* carry a gun doesn't mean they would. Dulinor may have raised an eyebrow by coming in armed, but considering he probably just flew in on a fleet ship, that might have made it less obvious. Maybe he made a habit of travelling with the fleet armed, just as a symbol. Maybe anytime nobles travel off Capital they go armed. But since he just rolled in, maybe it was only a mild curiosity.

At the same time, the nobles who lived there or had been there for a long time (the hangers-on), might well have been unarmed.

There's a lot of grey areas you can fill in as to how this all plays out. I think I'm going to have to write up a version of this that is more fully detailed to try to make Dulinor's plan look sensible and explain how he could stand a good chance of success, and then examine how he failed.


I don't think there is any historical analog to the TU. Bits of it may (in some way) map to small bits of history, but I'm fairly sure that Marc has repeatedly decried people trying to pigeon hole the setting by using metaphors like 'age of sail' etc. Each one comes with baggage that is untrue. I don't find it so bad, as long as we keep in mind that any fit of an analog will be incomplete and rationalizing from an analog to aspects of the TU itself will be very problematic.

 

[kaladorn]

I'm pretty sure that nobles can probably carry a sword in the presence of the King of England. A gun is an extension, but not so much, since I think that swords could be carried back when swords were the available weapon to the defenders. <shrug>

The fissuring of the Imperium was an end, not a logical progression. Ergo, there was some retconning of underlying issues that those of us from the CT world were totally unaware of (since they didn't previously exist!).

The Dulinor survival thing:
Yes, there would have been a bunch of Nobles. Perhaps very surprised nobles! Shocked... momentarily at a loss.. then realizing that yes, a number of them do have guns. But they probably don't have much armour. And the guys around the periphery (the loyal Imperial Gaurd... oh wait...) seem to be wearing Battle Dress and have suddenly morphed their sunburst over into an Illelish squiggle. And they have FGMP-15s. So, any noble that stepped out of line may have turned into a pile of ash. So perhaps that thought convinced them to pursue the better part of valour. After all, Dulinor had already gunned down all the visible heirs... and he may well have killed the others already....

Who knows, maybe their *were* a few other nobles (Life peers, from the military, for instance) who did try to take on Dulinor. We don't know how many people the Illelish Gaurd smoked.

We also know Strephon had cleared out a sizeable portion of the people, only a small group left. Maybe they were unarmed. Just because someone *can* carry a gun doesn't mean they would. Dulinor may have raised an eyebrow by coming in armed, but considering he probably just flew in on a fleet ship, that might have made it less obvious. Maybe he made a habit of travelling with the fleet armed, just as a symbol. Maybe anytime nobles travel off Capital they go armed. But since he just rolled in, maybe it was only a mild curiosity.

At the same time, the nobles who lived there or had been there for a long time (the hangers-on), might well have been unarmed.

There's a lot of grey areas you can fill in as to how this all plays out. I think I'm going to have to write up a version of this that is more fully detailed to try to make Dulinor's plan look sensible and explain how he could stand a good chance of success, and then examine how he failed.


I don't think there is any historical analog to the TU. Bits of it may (in some way) map to small bits of history, but I'm fairly sure that Marc has repeatedly decried people trying to pigeon hole the setting by using metaphors like 'age of sail' etc. Each one comes with baggage that is untrue. I don't find it so bad, as long as we keep in mind that any fit of an analog will be incomplete and rationalizing from an analog to aspects of the TU itself will be very problematic.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Lord Iron Wolf:
As I said it's a thought experiment and I wonder if the parallels I see are my delusions or if others are seeing a loose patterning on historical events.

Your parallels are delusions.

GDW weren't hacks. They didn't indulge in the kind of crude patterning you are imagining.

Yes, you can draw loose and partial parallels with all kinds of things, and probably be at least partly correct. But the kind of stuff you are suggesting is far beyond that.

And even if GDW had been this untalented, they wouldn't have been using the precise parallels you are hallucinating...

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Lord Iron Wolf:
As I said it's a thought experiment and I wonder if the parallels I see are my delusions or if others are seeing a loose patterning on historical events.

Your parallels are delusions.

GDW weren't hacks. They didn't indulge in the kind of crude patterning you are imagining.

Yes, you can draw loose and partial parallels with all kinds of things, and probably be at least partly correct. But the kind of stuff you are suggesting is far beyond that.

And even if GDW had been this untalented, they wouldn't have been using the precise parallels you are hallucinating...

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Lord Iron Wolf:
As I said it's a thought experiment and I wonder if the parallels I see are my delusions or if others are seeing a loose patterning on historical events.

Your parallels are delusions.

GDW weren't hacks. They didn't indulge in the kind of crude patterning you are imagining.

Yes, you can draw loose and partial parallels with all kinds of things, and probably be at least partly correct. But the kind of stuff you are suggesting is far beyond that.

And even if GDW had been this untalented, they wouldn't have been using the precise parallels you are hallucinating...

 

[Reg Redblade]

I have been reading the first couple of pages again and noticed that Brzrk is dead ?

How and when did this happen - was this in the DGP supernova that was discussed in MTJ 4 or is it another part of AV ?

I think I was in the minority who thought that the Antares supernova was cool - something that could be built into the campaign and mapped as the years go on.

Just think if the Traveller timeline had progressed for the last ten years there would now be an interesting but not hugely shattering change to the map of charted space (unless of course your campaign had been centred on Antares).

But then again I am a big fan of fluid campaign settings.

RR

 

[Reg Redblade]

I have been reading the first couple of pages again and noticed that Brzrk is dead ?

How and when did this happen - was this in the DGP supernova that was discussed in MTJ 4 or is it another part of AV ?

I think I was in the minority who thought that the Antares supernova was cool - something that could be built into the campaign and mapped as the years go on.

Just think if the Traveller timeline had progressed for the last ten years there would now be an interesting but not hugely shattering change to the map of charted space (unless of course your campaign had been centred on Antares).

But then again I am a big fan of fluid campaign settings.

RR

 

[Reg Redblade]

I have been reading the first couple of pages again and noticed that Brzrk is dead ?

How and when did this happen - was this in the DGP supernova that was discussed in MTJ 4 or is it another part of AV ?

I think I was in the minority who thought that the Antares supernova was cool - something that could be built into the campaign and mapped as the years go on.

Just think if the Traveller timeline had progressed for the last ten years there would now be an interesting but not hugely shattering change to the map of charted space (unless of course your campaign had been centred on Antares).

But then again I am a big fan of fluid campaign settings.

RR

 

[mike wightman]

It was detailed in Challenge magazine. Some sort of accident...

 

[mike wightman]

It was detailed in Challenge magazine. Some sort of accident...

 

[mike wightman]

It was detailed in Challenge magazine. Some sort of accident...

 

[Border Reiver]

.....or was it a terrorist incident.

 

[Border Reiver]

.....or was it a terrorist incident.

 

[Border Reiver]

.....or was it a terrorist incident.

 

[jcrocker]

Runaway fusion reaction in the archducal space station's power core. Boom. Lucan's INI could take out Brzrk, but not Dulinor, the guy who started it all...

 

[jcrocker]

Runaway fusion reaction in the archducal space station's power core. Boom. Lucan's INI could take out Brzrk, but not Dulinor, the guy who started it all...

 

[jcrocker]

Runaway fusion reaction in the archducal space station's power core. Boom. Lucan's INI could take out Brzrk, but not Dulinor, the guy who started it all...