The Outworld Coalition Corner

[Prometheus]

Hey come on in.. that means you too Mr. Vargr, (don't you worry we hired our own poo scoopers in here & litters welcome as well), Anyway I hope this is a little corner out of this wonderful website is where some serious imperial bashing goes on. Jokes at imperial marines expense greatly appreciated.

So come on in read someone's mind...etc...

 

[Prometheus]

Opening topic- Playing a Zhodani....

I have always been of the opinion that the Zhodani have been a great feature of the Traveller, and yet I was disappointed with the presentation they had as being more of a Middle-Eastern Type culture (yes, I Know they really are not, yet the bloody turbans in the illustrations are kinda pointing in that direction). So I began to look around for inspiration for my zhodani characters .. I found mine during reasearch on a college 495 independent study paper I was writing on "Exertnal Asian Influences on the Vietnamese Independence Movement" (I got a B+ for 38 pages) long story short .. I found some very exciting coincidences between the Vietnamese/Chinese cultures and that protrayed in the zhodani. One, the mandarins are a leader caste or class much like the nobles in purpose and bearing .. [hey in vietnam they wear pretty stylish turbans ... (dosen't look like you ran of with mom's dish towel)].I also am of the opinion that the Neo-confusianist system of relationships can give a texture and guide to portraying Zhodani amongst themselves. It is often quoted in some texts and alter library data resources that "morality" is stressed in zhodani culture... hey what better than to use the confucian principles to govern your character... anyway enough for now lets see if anybody else has an opinion.

Oh by the way I remember there being a zhodani article in the JTAS ... but that was almost 2 decades ago...

 

[Prometheus]

Another thing I wanted to ask my fellow travellers... the Zhodani Consular Guard... form and functionality.. are they more of an SS/KGB type organiztion..meaning State Preservation with their thumbs in everything. Or could they be a form of Pretorian Guard.. purely military with hints of political power? Tell me what you think?

 

[plop101]

Well, in my mind, I always think of Zhodani as Iranians.

So, the Zhodani Consular Guard=Iranian Revolutionary Guards, if one doesn't push the analogy to far.

Now, the cobelligerants of the Outworlders in the Solomani rim, Solsec, I see them just like the KGB.

I've even run characters using KGB organization for branch designations,
eg a Solsec secret agent gathering information in Imperial territory would be part
of the 1st Directorate. Solsec military monitors, IIRC, would be in the Third Directorate, and so on.

 

[Elliot]

I think the Imperial Marines are more like the Pretorian Guard (I think Lauren Wiseman modelled them on the Pretorian Guard in early JTAS).

I agree that the Zhos started off as Iranians (after all Traveller did come out during the Iranian Islamic Revolution and the Carter crisis) but were later softened around the edges to make them less obvious and more complex.

 

[kafka47]

Yes, I can see that the connection with Iranians but I think as Traveller matured...the connection was:

Sov(iet)s = Zhos

particularly, as the softening of the Evil Empire image can into being...

 

[Prometheus]

Ahh the cold war ..man do i miss it..not..
Okay so I am a goof and i am spinning the Zhos in a different direction maybe.

 

[Prometheus]

the Iranian Revolutionary Guard are a fudementalist police for e parameilitary org. I think they and the Pasadran are one n the same.. interesting correlation though.. not that i agree.. they were a bunch of amatuers in my book.

 

[Jame]

Iran is supposed to be moderating its tone due to popular youthful pressure. Good if true, but I'd like proof. Though the similarities between Iran and the Zhodani Consulate.

 

[Prometheus]

Okay I am going to be pelted with stones for this one! It a Ct question.. but pertinant to the..Zhodani question at large.

My post at the Zhodani Base

Does anybody have an opinion on proles developing their Psion abilities later in life (but also keeping with book 3 a reduced psi strength due to age). With "ambition" being quoted in many of the texts about the zhodani.. what would you say if a hard working zhodani prole with a PSI of 5 decieds to save his money and have after hours classes on psionic development.. he manages over the years to achieve a limited break through in telepathy ( the easy one and clairvoyence ) {example Telepath 3 and clairvoyant -4) is he still a prole since he wasn't trained at youth? ... does it create a class struggle issue with in cannon about the zhodani? I am just musing about it... besides i never agreed with the proles being completely non-psionic. especially in a such a pro-psionic state... Fresh fruit ? rotten produce?

 

[plop101]

Hmmm. Should the prole be satisfied with their lot in life? Are proles allowed ambition?

I can see the nobles saying once a prole always a prole and calling the thought police. They certainly wouldn't tolerate class struggle. On the other hand, they would be stupid to waste such talent IF it could be achieved. I guess it would depend on whether the prole in question is
hmmm, how to put this exactly, whether the proles efforts in becoming pscionically enhanced distracts him/her from their other duties. Proles who obsess get to visit the thought police; those who don't, maybe become intendants. Who knows[shrug].

I can imagine a Zhodani literary work on this, "The Prole who became a Noble" something like "Ivanhoe" or "A Knights Tale".

 

[Prometheus]

You have brought up some good points plop ( as usual

, But consider this these are relitively low powered psionists. Thus the nobles and intendants usually would maintain dominance in zhodani society. Also I argue that morality education and a very clearly defined social code of relationships between the classes reinforces the notion that class struggled would be minimized. Also plop you brought up a great point about the thought police, who could essentially weed out the malcontents for reducation. Any further thoughts?

 

[plop101]

Well, I don't know where my brain got this, but suddenly I've started thinking about Proles and Tourism. [?] Don't ask me how thats supposed to relate, its just one of those brain fart things.

 

[Prometheus]

too much egg nog hunh?

 

[zonk]

OK, it's been a long time, but isn't the whole point of the zho system that EVERYONE is tested early in life? So the prole who has talent is sorted out and trained THEN. The only way you could have a prole who develops a talent later in life would be one who had escaped the weaning process. Say someone who had been isolated away from zho society during the correct time. Perhaps a spaceship crash with survivors, but they would have to be isolated for years.

 

[Prometheus]

uh ... the thought is.... I am exploring the idea that ambition is a key cornerstone in Zhodani society .. mentione din various JTAS articles. I was wondering even though everyone is tested at the young age for a potential, only those with a psi strength of 9 or greater would be trained. Given that why couldn't the proles at there own expense and time develop their mited Psi abilities.

My thoughts being in a psionic society that rewards ambiton and holds honesty and morality as cornerstones to it relative happiness. That proles would have access to a Psi Institute for personal development. It would give the Consulate form of government a public manifest that would dovetail nicely with the morality ethos (neo-confucian like)of the Zhodani Culture.

 

[trader jim]

simply because they had to draw the line somewhere???......if they dont stop there, then why not a 7 or a 6???

 

[Liam Devlin]

Another facet of the Zhodani Consulate is that they really are a democracy (of the Psi-talented).
Even Low Psi strength rated "Proles" have a say. Its the none psi-minded non voting member sophonts who have no chance of development.

For me, this raises the question? Do the Zhodani beleive Psionics breed true? or do they "dilute" talent by marrying weaker strengthed Psis?

True they have the element of ambition-with the rags to riches prole-Intendant-Noble process, serving the state/ fellow Psi-citizens. But is that the only avenue of ambition? Unlikely. AMbition to succeed is inherent in every branch of humaniti (or else why explain how they achieved Jump-drive if they had no ambition to travel the stars?), in some measure. Some have greater others less amounts of it.

What I beleive Spiff, sets the ZHodani apart, is that they channel this ambition towards better service of their fellow Psi-citizens. This "thought policing/ mind control of the masses" that alarms the Imperials, is actually designed for a smooth running society. The Nobles are the "Shepherds of the flock", in the basest analogy I cab render.
Imperial Psionic suppressions/ suspicions aside, the ZHodani, IIRC, view the Imps as deceptive folk who cannot tolerate the open honesty their society requires.
Good topic. Thanx!

 

[shield]

Re the Zhos,

The Consular Guard are elite troops, given all the important missions, they are not really a paramilitary mob like the iranian revoluntionary guards. But it should be remembered that as virtually the enitre guard is PSI adepts they are all nobles or intendents so will support the current Zho government.

It should be noted that all nobles are given PSI training, no matter how poor their PSI ratings. All proles are tested and those with PSIs of 9 recruitrd into the ranks of intedents.

As for other proles with low PSI scores, there are the games (held every 3 zho years - from memory of the original alien races module) that would allow a prole with some PSI talent to be promoted.

Only if the proles desire for PSI was affecting his mental health (obsession, anti-government feelings, jealousy) would the good old thought police turn up.

Hows that

Cheers
Richard

 

[Vargas]

This seems like a good fora for two Zho related questions:

1) Are there Zhodani free traders (or are they all state owned)?

2) Do merchant captains need to be nobles or can proles command a merchant ship?

Thanks!