Maybe a different tack here.
Please, gents, bear with me, as I work through the following, as it's a struggle for me to concentrate this much, but it is that important to me, since Traveller is was and always will be my favorite roleplaying game.
GypsyComet Wrote:
Mechanics that support fast play under any circumstances will tend to get used for fast and furious Action, because the mechanics won't get in the way. Mechanics that require an extensive glare at either a rulebook or character sheet to get away from a set list of actions, or worse, to perform that set list at all, will simply not support immersive Action. This is the fundamental reason D6 worked for Star Wars, and D20 doesn't, particularly if a Jedi is involved.
Exactly. Exactly damn squared.
Traveller is, was, and will be Marc's vision. I can only wonder why he didn't instead become a major sci fi author.
Traveller back in the day (and I am talking just what it WAS, not a preference for CT, etc to add into that whole pile-on) was exciting, fresh, rules light and a more-than-viable alternative to D&D.
In fact, way better, since it was skill-based and not level based, and tried and mostly succeeded in realistic action, damage, career paths, etc, etc. I dare say it set the trend for all skill-based systems to come after it.
With Traveller there was the 3I setting, or do your own, except that it forced you more or less to use jump, unless you designed your own variants for Hyperspace travel. And some did. Good for them. I was one of them, trying to simulate Star Wars.
I personally feel that what Traveller did was allow us all back in the day to be Heroes.
Heroes of the Traveller weekly TV Show, directed by GM, and starring players. The Traveller Film.
Not "My roll to penetrate the shields is X, but blah blah blah modifiers." or "look up this chart, that chart, that subsection of specialized rules."
I had some guy show me Unisystem, as to how it was so fancy-shmancy. There's 40 or feels like it different martial arts moves. too many. I mean roll the dice ***Blam***, damage, yes? Does it matter if it is a kick or a punch or an elbow smash? They got lost in John Woo films, for real, with specail John Woo films RULES if you can believe it.
I used to play battletech. Last week, I dug it out again for my gaming group, we ran a 6 on 6 'mech battle, and I remembered again, why I dropped it. Great setting, the rules sucked, and took too long to play even a simple 6 on 6 battle, that was 2 or 3 minutes real time, but took 6 hours to play out.
3 weeks ago, one of our guys broke out classic Twilight 1st ed. We had a roaring good romp in the woods with russian tanks, APCs, and infantry, and we nearly all died, but we loved it all the same. Ditto for 7th Sea. Roll some dice, tell the story.
If the rules for a roleplaying game as presented do NOT represent or convey the "Traveller as Episodic TV show" or "Traveller as sci-fi Film" background, it will ultimately
fail as a game, since that is where games are going now.
Serenity as show as game shows us that, in that people I know that play it say, it's like Traveller, only this other guy's setting, with more action and fun rules. I skimmed it at a store, never having seen the show, and said, this looks snappy, but Traveller is already there.
IF the purpose of T5 is to play in Marc's Vision, what he sees as the Traveller TV Show style, based in 3rd Imperium, it will work.
If T5 clings to the old wargames pushing around minis, laying down squad-leader style chits for prep fire, suppressive fire, and tracking markers, clattering dice, mucking with chart heavy stuff, and clattering more dice, moreale saving throws, and the whole bit, a la Striker & FF&S, T5 is
dead before it is launched, except for the total die hards (maybe I am one of them), who will buy a copy just because it has Marc's blood and blessing inherent in it (and that would be the reason).
What I have seen all through the years as a problem by GDW is Pandering to the current Trend, just because it was hot, and sold, not because it was a better game, or led to better storytelling. Cyberpunk was hot, so 2300 got some cyberpunk plugged in loosely.
Twilight:2000 was a breakthrough game. It's successors were not. I liked v2 slightly better, as it led to faster action, and less 3 bullets per shot headaches.
All the rest of the big gaming houses were going one house rules system, so TNE went there too.
Thanks to GDW for totally pissing me and my game group off, since I/we didn't like and didn't want Tewilight:2000 d20 (2.2) in the first place, and reworking Traveller to be that, killed it off for me, virus notwithstanding. Twilight got 3 versions! Traveller got 4! One was neither Twilight nor Traveller but called itself Both.. sort of. Jesus GOD.
How many times are the rules going to freaking change, Marc?
Instead, I gave up on GDW, figured it wasn't coming back, and I kept playing MT bits welded onto Classic, alternated with Twilight 1st ed, wanting more modules for both, and playing FASA Trek, which gave me what I wanted in a game, with a different setting.
What I am saying here is stick with what works, and do product line extension, not launch a new brand.
This is what killed GDW.
This is what Killed Imperium Games, if I am not mistaken.
Doing the same thing, expecting different results is insanity, and not based in reality.
If T5 tries to be a universal system, Traveller will be way behind GURPS, HERO and all the other generic games. This is why GURPS AS Traveller was a good move, I think. I don't play it, I use it as source, but some here love it.
Okay, here's a really wild off the wall idea...
T5, to avoid fracturing the fan base (who already play a half dozen versions plus house rules, that they already like) is instead a cleaned up SETTING + Modules, no rules, not YET ANOTHER full set of rules, to compete with CT, MT MT CD-ROM, T20, etc etc. We already got way too many rules.
If you are gonna do rules, clean up the erratta in CT, MT And T4, and re-release them. I can't speak for T20, but it seems dead, since all the problems of this year.
There are way too many systems out there. Everyone already has their favorite flavor. We don't need another one.
I mean, isn't that the problem here? too many sets of rules? ESPECIALLY for TRAVELLER?
How many people here have a NEED to have it all one straight canon, as quoted in the above post, the Encyclopedia of Traveller. (This collector monniker, or whatever.)
Because hell, I know over 30 different RPG rules systems already. NOT including specific variants of d20, may Gygax protect us in our time of peril.
I don't need another rules variant, which is a subset of classic, with MT welded on, influenced by who the hell knows what else...I ALREADY WROTE THAT ONE MYSELF, and It works Well enough.
No more. No new rules, which, in the damn end will be hated by [insert rules set devotee group here] or [Traveller posters who hate everything traveller, and mock Marc for even trying.] I know those people are gearing up right now with the [reply] button already.
Things like FF&S, while admirable are usually way too complicated to deal with, except for the "Gearhead / Rule tinkering people" Give 'em a limited license for X% and let em run free with their own 50 page website and online formula claculators, and have the hell at it.
I know there are people out there right now, members of these forums, who would be willing to retype all of these rules into one clean copy, by hand, ERRATA CORRECTED in more detail than Marc himself might be able to track,
just to have it. Yes?
I used to use Traveller to play Star Wars, back in 1978. It **KIND OF** worked. Yeah there were stats for Vader in Citizens of E. I was 12. I made up rules for lightsabers, and blasters.
I didn't need FF&S type stuff to do it. I looked at the story factors, and game balance, and said here we go, these are the rules. ta da move the hell on, and get back to playing.
Too many games now have books and books of new feats, new monsters, new [whatever], that always significantly change what HAS COME BEFORE.
The Rebellion changed everything, as did Virus. Why?
There were an infinite amount of stories already in 3I. Infinite. And if you didn't like that, make up your own. But we got it forced on us as fans. Okay. DGP saw the handwriting, and bailed. Funny thing, some players did too.
Thus all this fracturing that we see now, because it was different rules, different setting, different.. a lot of things.
Gsmes that stayed consistent lasted longer.
Star Wars d6 Capital B...Blew Away any further attempt at doing Star Wars with Traveller. Likewise, using Star Wars d6 to do Traveller would totally suck, since SW is space Opera, and Traveller is Hard SF. Seemd for a long time like Star wars was good to go, easy to teach, far and away easier than most games. Fun, action, jedi, fun fun, kill the bad guys, be a hero.
Guess what? Lucas got a wild hair to change it up, and lost major portions of people that damn hated Jar Jar, and all the rest. Our group, disillusioned, ceased. Because the basic precepts of what we saw Star Wars as setting, was meant to be, had changed, irrevocably.
I guess things change. Some wise guy from India said that a few centures ago, as I recall.
We can look at some sf gaming systems, and get some clues, about changes in gaming:
Space Opera - Too many small print rules, clunky rules, bad editing. Some okay adventures, but it tried to be too big, and epic without really supporting that with story. Planet gen was fun and interesting, though. Combat was ... star trek with missiles. It was a game that seperated system from background, really.
SPI Universe: Was fun, as far as it went, but was too much like a wargame, for the obvious reason that SPI did it. Space combat was all vectors, too much of a problem for most. Planet gen was also fun and interesting, but went a Waaaay different direction. There was no background, really.
FASA Trek: Captured the flavor, rules light, and was a staple of FASA for many many years. The rules were light, somewhat quirky, but character generation (like travewller) was a mini-game in and of itself. Totally captured the feel and flavor of it's more or less Star Trek Canon background. Overall, a sucess.
WEG Star Wars: A classic, and still played. 1st ed was a bit clunky, revised and expanded edition fixed all of that. the d20 port .. not worth it to me. YMMV.
Alternity: looked pretty. Slick. part of the new wave.. we want to look like d20, but not be d20 style of hardbacks for 30 for core books per, and around 20 for supplements. For some reason, I have 12+ books for it, but have never played it. Other commenters here didn't like it.
Last Unicorn Star Trek: Potential to be a classic, but their license got pulled.
Decipher Star Trek: Cleaner, prettier, smells like d20, with different dice, designer claims to the contrary.
What Traveller needs (again, totally from my own narrow view, here) is:
Cleaned up canon and history. Call it T5, call it the Encycloipedia Travellerica, whatever. Hard rulings by Marc as to what is, and what is not. What is true, what is history.
Some ships, with easy to use rules that support the ships, and support storytelling. Not 30 turrets, each with a goddamned die roll.
Planet Generation, to cater to those who want to tinker, or build their own TU.
All of the effort to do ships and all of those books with formulas just drop 'em as the people that groove on that stuff will use FF&S or do thier own anyway.
Call me a collector, per the previous post. But for example if I am running Star Trek, as a scenario, if I have a Trek encyclopedia, I can do any story, and have it be consistent, as much or as little as I want. USING ANY OF 4 Differewnt Star Trek rules variants by 4 different companies. I don't need a ship's design book, I have some canon examples. I don't need vehicles I have canon examples. Most Star trek game systems have a few small books for ship design systems, and leave it at that. AS THEY SHOULD, since anyone who wants to go that way often cooks up thier own damn website and offers free stuff to anyone who wants it.
That's just the way it is.
Tell the story, not the mechanics.
Half of RPG combat is up / Hurt, unconscious or dead / combat ineffective. No need for a lot of rules, as long as the story can be told.
Long ago, I hated rules heavy systems, and the trend got to be more and more rules heavy as obsessive gamers crept in as gamers-turned- designers with all the minutiae, to simulate the worlds that they wanted to escape reality for, or did it for their day job, so that did it with their hobby.
T4 failed, most here would agree. I like it, but I am in the minority. But to me, it's Traveller, too.
Traveller As First Presented, in the old days, did so very very well, it had a setting, it had canon, it had (after a bit) some history, some ships, some stats, enough to play with, some characters, some skills, and there you go, Then it was:
Everyone seated at the table, with the crappy-green Judges guild screen (taped together, no frills like multi-fold for those guys, heh), with some books about astronomy laying around...
Ref: "You are all relaxing between jobs at the starport. Outside, through the plexisteel dome you can see the starport's downport landing field, and the glare of ships landing and taking off, as the twin sins lie low on the local horizon, past jagged mountains a few miles off.
You see holovid ads for Imperial Cola, and hear the computer-modulated feminine voice announcing arrivals and departures for destinations throughout the subsector. The woman you are meeting opens a small metallic case, revealing inside it a personal data terminal, and she then rotates it around, so that you can see an electronic holographic picture in full color of a man wearing the uniform and decorations of a highly-ranked Imperial Naval Officer.
'My father, a Navy Admiral is missing, and here's what I need from you all...'
And WE WERE THERE.
After a session of gaming, of suspension of disbelief, I recall saying to myself, at 18, after marathon session end:
"Oh hell, I am really in the real-world Navy, and got to work on torpedoes for the rest of the week, until we meet again to play."
I wanted to be that guy, in that starport, I wanted to be that hunter, that explorer, that scout, that merchant.
I still do. I am a 40 year old gamer. I freely admit, I play to escape.
I mean, it's a role playing game.
Playing a role, not designing a setting game.
If you want to do that, Hero and GURPS did it, cubed. And it's too many books, with GURPS, and Hero both.
I think, back in the day, CT hit the nail, square on, without really realizing it. MT did too, for some people. TNE might have for Twilight players. T20 did for the D20 crowd. Maybe T20 brought in some d20 players.
BUT:
I personally feel that We-as-Traveller community don't need another rules set. Break that paradigm, right now, and kill it pre-birth.
We got enough rules. And we got modern technology so that anyone here who wants to change 'em can scan their busted versions, type new pages to fix the old, and go to Kinko's and print 'em up POD, LEGAL or NOT. That's the reality. Really no foolin', guys.
A large slice of people here have done stuff for Traveller, in one way or another, official or semi official or fanzine.
What we don't need is more rules. we got fancy task systems, and ship design systems, and way too much ARGUMENT about which is right, which is better, and everyone is up in arms, so much so that people seem to be leaving.
What we don't have is Marc's ideas, thoughts and dreams, none of us can have that, we can only get it from him. I am so very sure that he has books full of notes as to how things are.
Back in the day, 3rd Imperium was born. Maybe it is dead, now. Some variants, it lives on.
We need Marc to give us all of that Tolkien Notes stuff before he dies, because Damn it to hell, I love the Third Imperium, and the Vargr, and the Solomani Rim War, and the Psionic Suppression, and the K'Kree, and ALL OF IT. I might do my own campaigns, but I want to see that stuff.
Majestic, in a word. Epic, Stellar, all-encompassing.
"Science Fiction Adventure, in the Far Future"
How many of you have that as a near mantra? I have the LBB logo as my damn PC shut down screens.
The 3I is just as compelling as DUNE, or The Foundation, is it not?
I ran out of steam. I expect to be blasted for the above. It ran too long, That's obvious.
But, does anyone out there remotely feel like ANY of the above is true?
I left the community for a few months, because it was full of arguments, so much so that I couldn't stand it. I come back for less than a week, and I am literally disgusted again already by the arguments.
WHERE's THE TRAVELLER?
- Merxiless
