Sylean Class BB

[mike wightman]

At TL15 under HG 81 edition 100,000t is a BB.

I would use every trick in the book to make it the most capable 100.000t BB TL15 can achieve - it relies on the naval base supply network and very large jump tenders.

J6 engine for strategic mobility - but rely on drop tanks until you get to tactical.

Maximum agility, screens and armour.

bridge 2%
j drive 7%
m-d 17%
pp 10%
fuel 30%
AV 15%
mg T 7%

It adds up...

 

[Condottiere]

I'll bite.

What's the projected maximum jump?

 

[mike wightman]

Jump 6 with drop tanks dropped.

Enough fuel reserve for a further two jump 1s or one jump 2.

These things are not cruisers, they are battleships. They rely on naval bases and tenders for strategic mobility.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

bridge 2%
j drive 7%
m-d 17%
pp 10%
fuel 30%
AV 15%
mg T 7%

If you intend to jump with the tanks the jump drive will be a lot bigger... Otherwise it will be a logistical nightmare to provide new tanks every jump.

 

[mike wightman]

That's why the Imperium has naval bases and tenders - to support battleships.

 

[Blue Ghost]

If it was meant to be the mainstay of the Imperial Navy don't you think it would have got a write up in S:9?

If it wasn't, then don't you think it would not have been show in S8? I think I've said all I had to on the topic. YTU and all that.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

That's why the Imperium has naval bases and tenders - to support battleships.

If it needs massive tenders to move, why not just use battle riders?

 

[aramis]

If it wasn't, then don't you think it would not have been show in S8? I think I've said all I had to on the topic. YTU and all that.

There's 10 years setting difference between S08/S09 and TD9.
Supp 8 is most recent date 1107; TD issue 9 is 144-1116. The Sylea may be constructed post 1107.

 

[Garnfellow]

If it was meant to be the mainstay of the Imperial Navy don't you think it would have got a write up in S:9?

I don't know . . . S:9 seems to be very Spinward Marches focused. I think it's representative only of that sector, and even then I don't think it's intended to be a comprehensive catalog of designs within the Marches. The Domain of Ilelish might have very different assets.

I could easily see two, maybe three dozen different capital ships designs active across the entire Imperium. That would include first, second, and third rate designs, the oldest of which stretch back to the Rim War.

 

[Garnfellow]

At TL15 under HG 81 edition 100,000t is a BB.

I would use every trick in the book to make it the most capable 100.000t BB TL15 can achieve - it relies on the naval base supply network and very large jump tenders.

I am intrigued . . . there are a couple of 100kt battleship classes described in Keith Brothers materials: the Inkaalur (Far Traveller 2) and Uzhsu (High Passage 5). I figured they were too small to even be considered light battleships.

When you say "these things are not cruisers, they are battleships," you mean they possess spinal weapons and enough defences to stand in the line of battle?

So is your proposed 100kt battleship viable in the OTU because the S9 design are so inefficient or because you are sacrificing on-board fuel, ammo, and other reserve systems in lieu of using a network of tenders and bases?

 

[mike wightman]

If it needs massive tenders to move, why not just use battle riders?

For the obvious reason that this thing can jump out of an engagement if it is on the losing side - something a BR can not do.

IMTU the IN admiralty learned the lessons of the 4FW.

 

[mike wightman]

There's 10 years setting difference between S08/S09 and TD9.
Supp 8 is most recent date 1107; TD issue 9 is 144-1116. The Sylea may be constructed post 1107.

That would be my explanation too.

The illustration in S:8 is from the news clips of the brand new Sylea class that is only deployed in core sectors initially - hence the Imperial Guard Squadron assignment.

 

[mike wightman]

I don't know . . . S:9 seems to be very Spinward Marches focused. I think it's representative only of that sector, and even then I don't think it's intended to be a comprehensive catalog of designs within the Marches. The Domain of Ilelish might have very different assets.

I agree.
What is it about the TL15 Atlantic heavy cruiser that makes it obsolete? Which class of ship is replacing it?

Or how about this quote:
"Although some older battleships of greater displacement
remain in service, the Tigress class dreadnaught is the largest line-of-battle vessel
currently in service with the Imperial Navy in the Spinward Marches."

I could easily see two, maybe three dozen different capital ships designs active across the entire Imperium. That would include first, second, and third rate designs, the oldest of which stretch back to the Rim War.

Agree again

And the shiny brand new Sylea class are core sector only in 1105...

 

[Whipsnade]

The illustration in S:8 is from the news clips of the brand new Sylea class that is only deployed in core sectors initially - hence the Imperial Guard Squadron assignment.

While an excellent explanation of the Keith illo and TD:9 snippet, it still doesn't "explain" the Wiki entry.

 

[mike wightman]

I am intrigued . . . there are a couple of 100kt battleship classes described in Keith Brothers materials: the Inkaalur (Far Traveller 2) and Uzhsu (High Passage 5). I figured they were too small to even be considered light battleships.

When you say "these things are not cruisers, they are battleships," you mean they possess spinal weapons and enough defences to stand in the line of battle?

Exactly right.
AF 15, meson screen #9, nuclear damper #9 cover defence, spinal meson T.

So is your proposed 100kt battleship viable in the OTU because the S9 design are so inefficient or because you are sacrificing on-board fuel, ammo, and other reserve systems in lieu of using a network of tenders and bases?

It lacks the fuel reserve to make use of its jump 6 capability without the support of drop tanks or tenders. It can make jump 2.

It is really a hybrid between a BR and a BB

 

[AnotherDilbert]

For the obvious reason that this thing can jump out of an engagement if it is on the losing side - something a BR can not do.

You can obviously place a J-1 drive and fuel in a BR, it just makes it much bigger and more expensive (so uneconomical).


BRs can retreat in the LBB5 system by screening them (placing them in the reserve), embarking them, and letting the tenders jump, which can be done in a single turn? You need to leave some missile rocks to form a screen, but they can make a short jump from the battle line.


As you pointed out the Sylea class has a BR counter. The counter lists the BB Sylea as a TL-15 J-3 6G ship with heavy armour and screens and a spinal meson, secondary missile armament, and some laser and sandcaster turrets, so a fairly standard BB.

 

[mike wightman]

You can obviously place a J-1 drive and fuel in a BR, it just makes it much bigger and more expensive (so uneconomical).

It's not a rider if it has its own jump drive, it's a jump 1 battleship.

BRs can retreat in the LBB5 system by screening them (placing them in the reserve), embarking them, and letting the tenders jump, which can be done in a single turn? You need to leave some missile rocks to form a screen, but they can make a short jump from the battle line.

The setting fluff has to cope with situations where the tender is destroyed stranding the riders and dooming them to destruction.

As you pointed out the Sylea class has a BR counter. The counter lists the BB Sylea as a TL-15 J-3 6G ship with heavy armour and screens and a spinal meson, secondary missile armament, and some laser and sandcaster turrets, so a fairly standard BB.

A FF&S design though, not a HG one. There is quite a paradigm shift between HG and FF&S.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

It's not a rider if it has its own jump drive, it's a jump 1 battleship.

I would use the classification Rider for anything that rides into battle in (or on) a tender. J-1 means basically no strategic mobility, so I would hardly call that a battleship, at least over TL 10.

 

[Condottiere]

If it can jump on it's own, it's a starship.

One parsec range would make it a coastal battleship, or let's call it a littoral battleship.

 

[Garnfellow]

Exactly right.
AF 15, meson screen #9, nuclear damper #9 cover defence, spinal meson T.

It lacks the fuel reserve to make use of its jump 6 capability without the support of drop tanks or tenders. It can make jump 2.

It is really a hybrid between a BR and a BB

Under HG81, is a 100kt battleship built along similar lines feasible at TL 14?