Starport A; Population 0

[LiminalMask]

How many inhabitants has Anctartica today (year 2012, Solomani calendar)? I'd say it has no inhabitants as such, and yet there are people living there, mostly rotating in several scientific (or other) bases.

I did a Google Search for "How many people live in Antarctica?" And got 1000-4000, depending on time of year.

So, in my mind, that means that Antarctica, were it a system, would have a pop digit of 3. It doesn't matter that people only live there a few months out of the year-- it matters just that people live there. And, if I were an adventurer or trader, those people would need fuel and food and replacement parts, and maybe could sell me oil or scientific datachips or fish, and maybe, while I'm docked there, I get word that a distant research post has gone silent, and they need someone to go investigate... and there's a shapeshifting alien that looks like Kurt Russell...

To my mind, a population digit of 0 means just that. If we get off the ship in a Pop 0 world, there's nobody else around-- well, okay, up to 9 people can be there. Ruins, sure. Non-sophont flora and fauna, sure. A class X or E starport? Sure, I buy that.

Now, I also don't think that if our crew of 12 lands on a Pop 0 world, suddenly the Pop digit changes to 1. That's because the adventuring crew isn't planning on staying for any appreciable amount of time, unlike people who might be working 6 month shifts on a refinery or at a starport. I know that "appreciable" is sort of vague, but Travellers live in the ship, not on the planet.

This is a good discussion, BTW. It's good to hammer out the nuances of meaning in the absence of clear rules.

 

[McPerth]

If so, pop stat would be quite volatile for a system (at least for low pop ones), and I didn't see many (if any) changes in UWP (I won't enter on Regina's TL here :devil until de advent of HT, and there due to a good cause (good cause to change them, I mean).

To my understanding, inhabitant means people that call it home, those that will have vote right if it applies to that government, so to say. Of course, once again, that's my interpretation, as good (or wrong) as anyone else's.

And don't forget 0 pop planets might have a government and law level over 0 in CT (I think he barren trade zone and the 0 pop equals 0 in all social stats was introduced latter. I guess another GDPism, as Mike would say).

 

[CosmicGamer]

When a scout or whoever makes the "official" UWP travels through a system, how do they count the population?

A scan from orbit of life forms - how do they know a human sized animal from an actual human?

Census data provided by the population?

Do they interview people to see if they are temporary or permanent?

Is every surveyor going to be extremely thorough? If you're getting paid per system to provide the data, a quick scan might be all you do.

Another possibility for the Starport A; Population 0 system
When I left jump space and arrived, I initiated scans and broadcast standard greetings. Several emergency beacons were broadcasting but even the most recent had been initiated over 20 days prior. I could detect no signs of survivors. Scans indicated a group of vessels were patrolling the system. I attempted to hail them and their response was to demand I stand down and await boarding. Luckily I had enough fuel for another jump. If my enhanced scanners had not detected the pirates as early, at least one of them would have closing on my position before I was able to turn around and get back out to the jump limit.

No communications were received from the planet or starport. Incomplete long range scans showed no population.

Suggest this be a red zone.


I'm not familiar with CT system generation. In Mong, "Red codes are given out at the discretion of the Referee."

 

[LiminalMask]

When a scout or whoever makes the "official" UWP travels through a system, how do they count the population?

A scan from orbit of life forms - how do they know a human sized animal from an actual human?

Census data provided by the population?

Do they interview people to see if they are temporary or permanent?

Is every surveyor going to be extremely thorough? If you're getting paid per system to provide the data, a quick scan might be all you do.

I doubt that the Scout Service relies on a single surveyor per system. I imagine it's an amalgam of census takers, trade data, word-of-mouth, reports from travellers, local census data... anything they can get their hands on, analyze for reliability and then make their best estimate. I would also imagine that Library Data such as is available on ship's computers isn't just the stuff the Scout Service sells, but encyclopedic data collected from lots of different sources, many of which could have wildly different degrees of accuracy and reliability.

But I'm thinking in terms of the Referee's data, the "truth" behind the numbers, and how to interpret contradictory or difficult data as generated randomly (or, as some suggest, NOT to interpret it, and to roll again.)

 

[Carlobrand]

...To my understanding, inhabitant means people that call it home, ...

True. Spinward Marches has some interesting examples. Judice (E9B2000-0, pop 0 by errata) is the home of Research Station Eta. Clearly neither the reseach station personnel nor the station's technology count towards the world's UPP, though one might imagine they spend quite a bit of time there. Similarly, Pixie (A100103-D, pop 90 and home to a Vargr colony of some sort) is the site of an Imperial Naval Base.

866-945 (D833000-0) and 728-907 (D955000-0) both have class-D starports: availability of unrefined fuel. Perhaps those ports are automated - stick your debit card in the slot and run the pump yourself - or perhaps the few starport personnel are not counted toward the world's population. (Note that water is freely available on a number of Pop.0 worlds, so clearly there's some sort of installation making the unrefined fuel available at the port for some reason.)

Choleosti (C200100-9, pop 10, another Vargr village - more like a couple of families) has a class-C port: routine quality with reasonable repair facilities. Gileden (C483103-6, pop. 20) likewise has a class-C starport and reasonable repair facilities - despite being a TL6 world. Resten (B310100-B, pop. 50) has a class-B port and the ability to build small craft.

(Tenalphi (A774102-E, pop. 60) has a class-A port and can build starships - but the most recent errata belatedly promoted it to a pop of 60 million and made it a participating democracy. Rumor has it the scout responsible for that error was filing his contact reports from a bar near the downport on Strouden after he lost his ship in a high-stakes poker game.)

The UPP is not counting the personnel and tech level of Imperial installations, probably also not counting starport personnel. I'm not sure if it's because the personnel are considered transient or because the installations are considered outside the jurisdiction of the planet. However, odds are good that it does not count the personnel of other installations with transient populations - assuming of course the scouts identify them as transient.

 

[rancke]

To my understanding, inhabitant means people that call it home, those that will have vote right if it applies to that government, so to say. Of course, once again, that's my interpretation, as good (or wrong) as anyone else's.

It depends on the evidence one bases one's understanding on. For example, no trade rules have ever suggested that the number of people that trade was based on was anything other than the official population code. This means (if we accept that) that transients either are counted in the number or does not have any economic effect on the system they reside in. I think the first option is not only far more likely but also far more useful for game purposes.

We do have at least one example of a world where the entire population are transients (Macene (Spinward Marches 2612)[*], population 9,400 (naval personnel or their dependents) [BtC:106].

[*] Pop code 4, pop multiplier 9.​

Hans