General "Spinward Marches Point to Point race" ideas

[Commander Truestar]

So,
If you've read the JTAS news stories, you've heard the term.
There has been First and Second SM Point to Point races in the past and I am considering setting up a spread sheet and some die rolls to add TAS News commentary in the background in my campaign.
I am curious:
1) How many ships do you feel would compete?
Doing so would be a massive commitment of time and funds because your entry would have to visit systems in every Imperial subsector in the sector

2) What worlds would you include as check points?
I am certain all the subsector capitals would be a "Must".
Add in one or two High-tech or Rich systems in each subsector (where such exist)
----- I mean, including District 268 could include Mertactor and Collace (You know, show the Client State a bit of Imperial grade excitement)

3) Where each ship would have to not only arrive in each system but dock and complete an electronic time/date check in where they would carry a device encoded with the data while the race officials would x-mail the same data as a "double-check", what other demands would you place?

What support services would you also assume the race would provide?

Thanks for your thoughts

 

[Spinward Flow]

1) How many ships do you feel would compete?

7 entries will start ...
Fewer will finish ...

Doing so would be a massive commitment of time and funds because your entry would have to visit systems in every Imperial subsector in the sector

Not necessarily ...

Instead of just merely being "a race" in the sense of the fastest to the finish line wins ... it really ought to be a "race" in which each of the competitors need to be "paying their own way" on operating expenses using merchant activity during the race. That way, the competition can be done as more of a "stress test" of various classes of starship designs.

You can set up the rules of the race such that competitors need to keep track of income revenue and operational overhead expenses. Competitors are only "allowed" to depart from a subsector WHILE their operation is in the black/profitable WITHIN that subsector. So basically, if there's a setback of some kind, you may need to "stay" in a subsector (conducting additional business) before being able to move on to the next (subsector) "leg" of the race.

In other words, competitors need to be "self sufficient enough" in their operations so as to "live off the land" while they are participating in the challenge of the race.

Competitors must supply their own starships ... which effectively means that the starships will need to be "owned free and clear" (or otherwise paid off) in order to have a HOPE of being able to operate profitably without a bank mortgage weighing down the balance sheet.

2) What worlds would you include as check points?
I am certain all the subsector capitals would be a "Must".

• Subsector capital.
• Highest TL world within the subsector (pick 1).
• Highest Population world within the subsector (pick 1).

No need for any Trade Code to be one of the check point criteria ... since speculative goods arbitrage will "help encourage" the various competitors to move around and seek opportunities that aren't necessarily going to be the fastest way from HERE to THERE.

1. Vilis subsector (start)
2. Jewell subsector
3. Regina subsector
4. Aramis subsector
5. Rhylanor subsector
6. Lanth subsector
7. Lunion subsector
8. Mora subsector
9. Trin's Veil subsector
10. Glisten subsector
11. District 268 subsector
12. Five Sisters subsector (finish)

What support services would you also assume the race would provide?

PUBLICITY.
The real key is going to be that starship classes which are able to turn a profit (ticket revenues, speculative goods arbitrage, etc.) while making this ... pilgrimage ... around the Spinward Marches, free trader tramp merchant style, is going to be of intense curiosity to a remarkably wide range of prospective investors in the interstellar transport services market.

Not only will the be interest and speculation as to "who crosses the finish line(s) FIRST" ... but also, who realizes the greatest profit margins while competing in the race. So there can be two metrics to judge the participating starships and their operators on ... Speed & Profitability.

Some followers/observers of the race may be more interested in the Speed side of things ... while others are more concerned with "how reliably profitable" different classes of starship can be over the long haul. Speculators and bookies can place their bets on who is most likely to "win" and who is most likely to forfeit/drop out (and when) ... what the placements on the "leaderboard" ought to be during the "horserace" within each subsector ... and so on and so forth.

Part of the reason for adding the "be profitable within each subsector before leaving" helps to prevent a circumstance in which competitors are "all drives, no revenues" and therefore Commercially Non-Viable when they need to "fend for themselves" as working merchant starships.



Just like The Great Race of 1908 ... from New York to Paris(!) ... that inspired the comedic movie ... being able to complete a "tour race" of the Spinward Marches and reach the finish line with more credits than a competitor started with, will stand as a testament to the EXCELLENCE of the starship class(es) who complete the race and the incredible collective acumen of their crew(s).

Now ... what might other people in the Marches want to buy for their next business venture/working starship?

 

[Condottiere]

If you handicap it with operational costs to be covered by commercial activities, someone will figure out that the crew should be mostly replaced by drones, who don't need life support.

Ramscoops for free gas.

 

[Commander Truestar]

My thoughts on trade are...
1) The big design groups will want to show off their design and engineering advances.
2) They will have many friends, and it takes little to have a 'friend speak to a friend' and suddenly, a "High profit" cargo becomes available just at the correct moment.

So, given that, I feel the race should be a "pure performance" test rather than adding in other factors.

Then again, if you do add in trade, you can throw in things like....Baron Elias talking to Lord Fein Tukera....who has a word with their trading factors.
Then, suddenly, in a transit system, the Imp Merchant Ship Glory's Glitter happens to transit much too close to the Tukera long liner Regina's Glow. In response, an escorting vermene gunship fires off a "warning shot" and Glitter takes minor damage to her fuel tankage! While the repairs and authority inquest take time, the Glitter is now out of the race unless her Captain considers much more dangerous tactics, like jumping into interdicted systems hoping they can frontier refuel before commanders of the Interdiction fleet can respond.

 

[Spinward Flow]

If you handicap it with operational costs to be covered by commercial activities, someone will figure out that the crew should be mostly replaced by drones, who don't need life support.

Ramscoops for free gas.

Wilderness refueling + fuel purification plant = massive overhead costs reduction

2) They will have many friends, and it takes little to have a 'friend speak to a friend' and suddenly, a "High profit" cargo becomes available just at the correct moment.

So ... "The Fix Is IN" ... before any competitors leave the starting line?
And how would that be from Situation Normal for the tramp free traders?

1) The big design groups will want to show off their design and engineering advances.

If the race is "speed only" then all you're doing is reaching for the Surplus Market of the Adlerstein class Fleet Courier (or equivalent) to get J6/2G streamlined hull + fuel purification plant and simply "rushing" as fast a possible in ways that are all too predictable. There's going to be a "best LINE" to navigate when Speed Is All That Matters ... and then the only metric that matters is how CLOSE to that "line" a starship can operate to complete the race in the least amount of time.

But my point is that a "pure speed contest" isn't going to be all that interesting as a Spectator Sport that can generate "stories about the horserace" and draw followers and fans. By contrast, "speed that ALSO produces useful work" isn't just about speed ... it's about self-sustaining ENDURANCE over the LONG HAUL. Introducing the "commercial accounting" factor to the race means that there are going to be complicating factors that create a cross-current demand pressure which means that speed ISN'T EVERYTHING. Furthermore, the "balance the books while racing" angle means that there will be plenty of "human interest" stories of the ups and downs of individual competitors.

If you handicap it with operational costs to be covered by commercial activities, someone will figure out that the crew should be mostly replaced by drones, who don't need life support.

Simple.
Rules of the race specify that (live) sophont crews are required ... no replacing crew with robotic drones ... so life support accounting is still required.

At which point, Regenerative Biome Life Support for the LONG HAUL starts making a good deal of sense, wouldn't you say?
If you "trade" revenue tonnage for a way to offset life support overhead expenses ... how different is that from "exchanging" revenue tonnage for a fuel purification plant so you can use wilderness refueling safely?

Then again, if you do add in trade, you can throw in things like....Baron Elias talking to Lord Fein Tukera....who has a word with their trading factors.
Then, suddenly, in a transit system, the Imp Merchant Ship Glory's Glitter happens to transit much too close to the Tukera long liner Regina's Glow. In response, an escorting vermene gunship fires off a "warning shot" and Glitter takes minor damage to her fuel tankage! While the repairs and authority inquest take time, the Glitter is now out of the race unless her Captain considers much more dangerous tactics, like jumping into interdicted systems hoping they can frontier refuel before commanders of the Interdiction fleet can respond.

The scenario you've outlined is "completely possible" if the race is purely based on SPEED with no commercial profit component thrown in as a complicating factor. Worse, if the race is purely about SPEED ... it'll be EASIER to predict the plot your competitors will be obliged to follow in order to complete the race in the least amount of time (the only factor that matters in order to win).

By contrast, if competitors "need to conduct business along the way" to defray their operational costs, an incredible amount of variability/randomness is thrown into the mix, which means that the EXACT ROUTE that each competitor will be taking becomes ... very fuzzy ... in terms of prediction of future movements. So being able to set up ambushes (like you cite) to interfere with competitors becomes increasingly difficult to achieve because of the variables that need to be solved for in order to achieve an Interception.

Furthermore, that kind of "interference" on behalf of/against specific competitors is the kind of Situation Normal for tramp free traders in their day to day operations ... so finding out HOW competitors in the race "deal" with such spoiler actions done with malicious intent will speak to the Built In Design Security™ features of the starship classes chosen by the various competitors and highlight the advantages of operating different types of starships under "real world" conditions (rather than idealized "racing in a lab" conditions).

 

[Condottiere]

I did a return on investment for Travellerized biodomes, many moons ago.

It's at least twenty years, when compared to listed options for other forms of purchased life support.

 

[Commander Truestar]

... "The Fix Is IN" ... before any competitors leave the starting line?
And how would that be from Situation Normal for the tramp free traders?

True and false.
The "average trader" is a known quantity, with supporting factors doing their best to help the line.
But regular trade operations still rely on normal cargo availabilities. And the involvement of trade and commercial factors is known and obvious

So, this is not "normal". These would be secret operations to "create" just the right cargo at just the right time

If the race is "speed only" then all you're doing is reaching for the Surplus Market of the Adlerstein class Fleet Courier (or equivalent) to get J6/2G streamlined hull + fuel purification plant and simply "rushing" as fast a possible in ways that are all too predictable. There's going to be a "best LINE" to navigate when Speed Is All That Matters ... and then the only metric that matters is how CLOSE to that "line" a starship can operate to complete the race in the least amount of time.

No. Absolutely wrong.
This is not "speed only"
In fact, it is even more about "endurance" and "system performance".

You can't move quickly if your system keep failing.
If you want to move from:

1. Vilis subsector (start)
2. Jewell subsector
3. Regina subsector
4. Aramis subsector
5. Rhylanor subsector
6. Lanth subsector
7. Lunion subsector
8. Mora subsector
9. Trin's Veil subsector
10. Glisten subsector
11. District 268 subsector
12. Five Sisters subsector (finish)

That takes some 40 jumps.
And, where the average merchanter makes two jumps a month (Per the LBBs), this is not a jump every 2 weeks, with a week between each for engineering resets, etc.
This is an endurance competition more than anything else

This is a chance to show off how much better your engineering is than anyone else's

At which point, Regenerative Biome Life Support for the LONG HAUL starts making a good deal of sense, wouldn't you say?

Nope
Like any other racing team, there will be "pit crews".
And those crews will have atmo and environmental refresh and food stocks waiting, paid for in bulk and with an advertising deal to boot
"AstroBurgers!! The Go To meals for crews on the move! Load your ship's auto-chef with our new energy burgers for those long hauls"

 

[whartung]

The problem with a race like this is that the 33 hour jump arrival window pretty much makes the race a complete crapshoot.

Perhaps its fair to argue that with enough jumps, the random window will normalize out, but as with all bell curves, there's winners and losers, and nothing they can do about affecting it.

 

[Commander Truestar]

The problem with a race like this is that the 33 hour jump arrival window pretty much makes the race a complete crapshoot.

Perhaps its fair to argue that with enough jumps, the random window will normalize out, but as with all bell curves, there's winners and losers, and nothing they can do about affecting it.

Well,
That is part of the point I made in my previous post.
What if "your engineers" managed to fractionally normalize that?

What other bits can advancing tech cut off the log to shorten each run?
Can our power-plant/pump system handle more fuel incrementally faster?
Have we found a way to grow more pure zocchi crystals?

And, the black hole in the room....overhauls.
Every starship "should have" two overhauls a year.(Per the LBB's, Starship Owner's Handbook, etc...)
For an "average" ship, that is an overhaul after every 26 jumps.
But, you have to ask if you can stop and take the time in this race?
- OR - can you prove you can put that off without risk because of the BRAND NEW GLISTEN HIGH PERFORMANCE JUMP SYSTEM!!!!
(only Cr 19.95 with your next refit...LOL)

 

[Condottiere]

Unless you deliberately misjump, it's hard to manipulate Einsteinian timespace, especially to arrive earlier than the norm.

And misjumping is a double edged sword.

 

[Commander Truestar]

Unless you deliberately misjump, it's hard to manipulate Einsteinian timespace, especially to arrive earlier than the norm.

And misjumping is a double edged sword.

Sadly, there is zero control where you emerge from a misjump
So, "intentionally causing" one rather than making an intended J-X(1-4) can drop you as many as 36 parsecs away from your destination and possibly leave you in deep space without the fuel to get home.

So, no.
Intentional Misjumps are not an aswer

 

[Badenov]

What you could do with the hours in jump figure is attach it to how well you made your jumping roll. Don't roll separately for jump success and hours in jump. Barely made the jump success? Max time in jump. Rolled best physically possible success (even if your ship can't achieve it because, for instance, you thought you could make up time by not using the fuel purifier)? Minimum time in jump. You can work out the scales for each number. (I'm being vague because I don't recall the specific rolls and mods for CT, sorry.)

 

[Spinward Flow]

The problem with a race like this is that the 33 hour jump arrival window pretty much makes the race a complete crapshoot.

Perhaps its fair to argue that with enough jumps, the random window will normalize out, but as with all bell curves, there's winners and losers, and nothing they can do about affecting it.

Even if that is true ... it isn't going to be a controlling factor (necessarily) in a "speed" racing context ... UNLESS ... everyone has the exact same drive performance codes (jump and maneuver) AND everyone is following the exact same interstellar navigation course plot from start to finish.

However ... if the competitors participating in the race have motivation(s) to take DIFFERENT ROUTES to reach the same goals(!) ... then the +/-10% variance in breakout timing becomes "less important" than choice of destination routing and the "turnaround haste" that can be achieved in each star system between arrival (via breakout) and departure (via outbound jump).

If my starship can save 3+ hours of maneuvering time per jump cycle because of higher maneuvering power than my competitors, over "the long haul" of a race that involves more than 30+ jumps (so no one will reach the finish line in less than 1 year!), that maneuver "haste" advantage can add up to be more than the +/-10% bell curve average could add up to in adverse circumstances.

Remember, the idea isn't to "normalize all factors" so as to make the Race a perfectly EQUAL playing field for every competitor ... in a sort of "sanitized, lab experimental" kind of way. Instead, it's to demonstrate how starship classes and their crews "handle adversity" in ways that regular/ordinary free traders have to deal with ALL THE TIME out in the REAL WORLD(S)™ of actual operations in the field while delivering "useful work" that can defray the operational expenses of actually doing that work.

"Your class design is impressive on paper. How does it fare out in actual ... you know ... reality ..."

No. Absolutely wrong.
This is not "speed only"
In fact, it is even more about "endurance" and "system performance".

You can't move quickly if your system keep failing.

Unless you're missing crew and/or annual overhaul maintenance cycles ... starship systems shouldn't be "failing" on a randomized basis under "nominal" operating conditions (short of taking battle damage) ... under the RAW of CT. Other editions may have "other ideas" on this point, but that's the foundational starting point, I would assume.

And, where the average merchanter makes two jumps a month (Per the LBBs), this is not a jump every 2 weeks, with a week between each for engineering resets, etc.

Which then begs the question ... if you're operating in a "race" context ... maybe you'd want to modify your operational tempo/starship design to lean more heavily into passenger services, since passenger tickets involve far smaller turnaround delays than freight tickets and/or speculative goods speculation. Likewise, a courier/packet ship type of competitor optimized for mail deliveries (and almost nothing else!) could be working the "penny-ante" X-Mail delivery angle and working on an almost "touch & go" basis at starports for the fastest turnaround rates. Such a packet/courier ship class would have limited revenue potential, but could be designed to be SMALL & FAST with an intentionally higher operational tempo of jumping (so more like 3 jumps per 4 weeks instead of 2 jumps per 4 weeks). Trade profit potential for quick turnaround SPEED in order to advance towards the finish line as quickly as possible.

My point being that each competitor "ought to" be entering with a different class of starship ... which then means that each competitor will employ "different strategies" that play to the strengths of their chosen starship class design. The question then becomes ... over the long haul ... which strategies trend more in the direction of success, when compared with the other competitors?

 

[Spinward Flow]

• Subsector capital.
• Highest TL world within the subsector (pick 1).
• Highest Population world within the subsector (pick 1).

No need for any Trade Code to be one of the check point criteria ... since speculative goods arbitrage will "help encourage" the various competitors to move around and seek opportunities that aren't necessarily going to be the fastest way from HERE to THERE.

1. Vilis subsector (start)
2. Jewell subsector
3. Regina subsector
4. Aramis subsector
5. Rhylanor subsector
6. Lanth subsector
7. Lunion subsector
8. Mora subsector
9. Trin's Veil subsector
10. Glisten subsector
11. District 268 subsector
12. Five Sisters subsector (finish)

Stipulation: Race Competitors are to not intrude upon the space of star systems claimed by interstellar polities other than the Third Imperium (so Zhodani controlled space, including Esalin/Jewell is out of bounds, as are Darrian Confederation space and Sword Worlds space).
Stipulation: Race Competitors need to complete all of the time/space check-in at 1 of the starports in each category within a subsector before they can "advance" to the next subsector region of the race. Race Competitors are permitted to navigate through "previously unlocked" subsectors to reach destinations if they need to do so in order to advance.
Stipulation: Race Competitors cannot perform starport check ins at Red Zoned worlds, therefore such worlds will not be included as race check points.

---

So I was kind of left wondering ... what would be the "checkpoints" required in each subsector?
Let's have a look, shall we?

Vilis subsector

• Capital: Frenzie/Vilis
• TL=C: Tremous Dex/Vilis
• Population=9: Arden/Vilis or Vilis/Vilis

Jewell subsector

• Capital: Jewell/Jewell
• TL=C: Jewell/Jewell
• Population=A: Louzy/Jewell

Regina subsector

• Capital: Regina/Regina
• TL=D: Efate/Regina or Uakye/Regina or Pixie/Regina or Boughene/Regina
• Population=A: Rethe/Regina

Aramis subsector

• Capital: Aramis/Aramis
• TL=C: Feneteman/Aramis
• Population=A: Towers/Aramis

Rhylanor subsector

• Capital: Rhylanor/Rhylanor
• TL=F: Rhylanor/Rhylanor
• Population=A: Porozlo/Rhylanor

Lanth subsector

• Capital: Lanth/Lanth
• TL=D: D'Ganzio/Lanth
• Population=8: Extolay/Lanth or Treece/Lanth or Equus/Lanth

Lunion subsector

• Capital: Lunion/Lunion
• TL=E: Tenalphi/Lunion
• Population=9: Lunion/Lunion or Strouden/Lunion

Mora subsector

• Capital: Mora/Mora
• TL=F: Mora/Mora
• Population=A: Fornice/Mora or Mora/Mora

Trin's Veil subsector

• Capital: Trin/Trin's Veil
• TL=F: Trin/Trin's Veil
• Population=A: Trin/Trin's Veil

Glisten subsector

• Capital: Glisten/Glisten
• TL=F: Glisten/Glisten
• Population=9: Glisten/Glisten or Crout/Glisten or Tirem/Glisten

District 268 subsector

• Capital: (Glisten/Glisten)
• TL=D: Collace/District 268
• Population=9: Collace/District 268 or Forine/District 268

Five Sisters subsector

• Capital: Iderati/Five Sisters
• TL=C: Karin/Five Sisters or Iderati/Five Sisters
• Population=8: Mirriam/Five Sisters

Which makes for a somewhat interesting mix of "required checkpoints" within each subsector with respect to the task of choosing an "optimal route" through the race.