Space RPGs compared

[Murph]

I would like to compare Classic Traveller (and other versions) to other classic SRPGs out there:

Traveller Pretty clean rules, some glitches that were covered/fixed by Mercenary, High Guard, Scouts and Merchant Prince. Striker/AHL adds a good, not perfect combat system. The Universe is well defined, consistent, and offers multifaceted adventure possiblities.

Space Opera (FGU) More complex than Chivalry and Sorcery, very complex character generation system that bogs things down, decent armor/combat system, excellent psionic system. Ship design rules similar to Book 2, ship weapons are fantasy. Published Universe is interesting, had promise, but tried to cover literally EVERY Space Opera type universe. Played it, went back to Traveller.

Gurps Decent idea growing out of The Fantasy Trip/Melee system. Adequate if not spectacular ship design system. Tried it, went back to Traveller.

Star Wars Never played it, so I cannot comment.

FTL 2448 Big, complex, an outgrowth of the Bureau 13 system by Rich Tucholka, poor ship design rules, excellent star mapping, complex combat rules, very good psionic rules. Got the books, never played it, but used it as a suppliment. Recommended.

Other versions of Traveller- Yuck. Megatraveller should have been a cleaned up Classic system, the Imperium should not have been killed off. The New Era- Dreck, just Dreck.

2300AD Great star mapping, poor character/combat system. No psionics, Interesting history, Silly 7.7 ly limit on star drives. Had great promise and it blew it. Played it, went back to Traveller

 

[Uncle Bob]

Traveller: 2300 Loved the setting, liked the technology. The rules had some interesting aspects, but I didn't think they played very well. I would have liked to adapt the setting & ships to CT characters and AHL combat, but I could never find the adventures I needed (I wouldn't have run them, but they were my only information on the Alien Threat). I thought 2300 was the same setting with the "House system."

Star Wars Played it once, didn't enjoy it. Blamed the DM, got ahold of the rules myself. That didn't help. This was 1st Edition, and was my first experiance with a "handful of dice" system.

Star Trek I know this has gone through a number of versions. I played an early version and as college students of the post-vietnam era we were not quite confortable playing Star Fleet Officers.

Cyberpunk Wonderful character generation, decent combat, innovative setting. I have enjoyed playing it. I have the Deep Space supplement, it looks good, but I have never played it.

Shatterzone Interesting setting, OK rules, doubtful technology. I own it, have never played it.

Vanguard A new game, available for free download. The system is innovative, but perhaps more difficult than necessary. The setting is very hard science. I checked some of their calculations, and the designers even listened politely when I corrected them.

Morrow Project First after-armageddon game. Wonderful suplement, damage system, not easy to play. We adapted the Atchisson automatic shotgun to other games.

Twighlight 2000 with the original rules. That system, was a Wargamer's RPG system, and I liked it. We had to tweak it to allow firing single shots to conserve ammo, but that was all. By the late 1980s the setting was obviously dated. Murph then ran an excellent "Twighlight 1989" game, a contemporary action/espionage/crime fighting game.

Aftermath I played it a lot, with a good GM, which made it fun. Hopelessly complex, but I will always recall "Senaca Bandages."

 

[T. Foster]

Star Wars: My first experience with a 'cinematic' system that makes no attempt to model logic or reality. Representative quotes I remember from the GM book: "if a 100-meter long ship will do, why not a 10 km long ship?" and "of course you're always going to let the good guys win, but try not to let them realize it." Plus I wasn't crazy about the fact most (all?) numbers were dice ranges rather than fixed values. Played in 2 relatively short-lived campaigns, never GM'd.

Shadowrun: Cyberpunk cliches + big buckets of dice + magic = not at all my cup of tea.

Star Trek: The LUG version of this game had beautiful production and a system with a 'cinematic' feel that wasn't over-the-top. This was the best non-Traveller SFRPG I'd seen in a while; pity the company sold out to WotC.

Dr. Who: I played in a relatively long-lived campaign of this game that made me think of this as the ultimate SFRPG, albeit extremely demanding for the GM, but then bought the rules and realized that our GM had customized them beyond recognition and the published game was a nightmare of complexity.

Paranoia: The first-edition of this game actually had an interesting system, but I know of absolutely no one who actually used it. The slapstick came to dominate the dark-satire much too quickly.

Space:1889: A dream come true for about a half-dozen of us; a resounding "what the f***!?" from everyone else. Who thought this was actually going to go over with the public?

Metamorphosis Alpha: The first SFRPG? D&D-on-a-spaceship interesting for a couple-three sessions, but not a lot of room for expansion.

Gamma World: TSR's attempt to broaden the scope of MA proved that an interesting novelty doesn't necessarily make a good game. Set the standard of the D&D rules' inappropriateness for SF.

Star Frontiers: Terrible rules, terrible generic cliche-filled space opera setting; proof that while D&D-in-space wouldn't work, any other system TSR could come up with would be even worse. And to think that as a kid I played this instead of Traveller...

 

[Murph]

BTW The last SWAT school I attended, recommended "Seneca Bandages" (Tampons) as suggested carry in the first aid pouch.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
Aftermath I played it a lot, with a good GM, which made it fun. Hopelessly complex, but I will always recall "Senaca Bandages."[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Murph]

As a side note, I have mined many of these systems for ideas, and add ons to Traveller.

I currently use Cyberpunk 2020 game mechanics and character generation.

 

[jalberti]

Star Trek: The FASA version was my first roleplaying game. I thought the rules were excellent and easy to play. All the suppliments and adventures were (in my opinion) superbly done. Starship creation and combat easy and very compatible with role playing.

I liked FASA's portayal of the Klingon's and Romulans far more than what came out of Star Trek: The Next Generation.

It was this game and the idea of science fiction roleplaying that eventually led me to Traveller.

 

[PVernon]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
Traveller: 2300 Loved the setting, liked the technology. The rules had some interesting aspects, but I didn't think they played very well. I would have liked to adapt the setting & ships to CT characters and AHL combat, but I could never find the adventures I needed (I wouldn't have run them, but they were my only information on the Alien Threat). I thought 2300 was the same setting with the "House system."

Actualy the same game with name changed to stop the confusion and some rule tweeks. I liked a lot. Fun setting to play in.

Peter V.

 

[PVernon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T. Foster:

Space:1889: A dream come true for about a half-dozen of us; a resounding "what the f***!?" from everyone else. Who thought this was actually going to go over with the public?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are still interested there is a Space 1889 discusion group on Yahoo Groups. We always like to have new people join. 290 members and growing.
Peter

 

[PVernon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T. Foster:
Metamorphosis Alpha: The first SFRPG? D&D-on-a-spaceship interesting for a couple-three sessions, but not a lot of room for expansion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think so I belive that RPG history runs D&D first published, Traveller Second, Empire of the Petal Throne third. EPT may have been created before D&D I am not sure. Fun to play though.
Peter V.

 

[T. Foster]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PVernon:
I don't think so I belive that RPG history runs D&D first published, Traveller Second, Empire of the Petal Throne third. EPT may have been created before D&D I am not sure. Fun to play though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The world of Tekumel was definitely created way before D&D, but wasn't adapted to the D&D-esque EPT rules until after (D&D in 1974, EPT in 1975). Traveller didn't show up until 1977, by which time there were a whole mess of other RPGs out, including EPT, Boot Hill (1975) and Metamorphosis Alpha (1976?) from TSR, Tunnels & Trolls (1974? - I think this might've been the second rpg, certainly the first blatant D&D clone), En Garde! from our friends at GDW (1975?), and probably many others that time has justly forgotten. I suspect the first edition of Chivalry & Sorcery also predates Traveller, but that's just a guess.

 

[aramis]

CT: Wonderful rules, with notable gaps.

MT: Just right for me: I can quickly adjudicate ship vs ship, PC vs ship, PC vs PC, PC vs Tank, Tank VS Ship under one combat system. This Page shows how...

Space Opera: Fun, but not easy. Interesting setting, but not enogh data on the setting.

Starships & Spacemen: The original Star Trek knock-off. Fun, fast, and cheesey. Class and level; rank by level!

Star Frontiers: Lame overall, but a workable setting.
Star Frontiers after Zebulon's Guide: More fun, much easier, but no longer integrates with the space combat rules. I really like the success table system, the new skill system. And the setting expansion was worth the money. I hope WOTC resurrects the setting... so i can adapt it to MT...

SpaceMaster: Rules are table heavy. Mechanics simple for players, nightmare for the table-searching GM. Have used it for Traveller; not bad.

TNE: The game whose errata came with a replacement page! (And they said MT was bad).
T4: The worst trav ever.

STRPG (FASA): Not bad, but not great. Percentiles way to low for the way people run percentile games. But can you phaser your way through the Hull?
LUG-Trek: You fail badly or succeed incredibly. Yup, it did star trek.
Prime Directive: Lots of fun. But it's set in an alternate Star Trek Universe... and then, just to protect the SFU from PD, they made PD the Game of playing Special Ops Teams as protrayed in the media of the SFU.

GURPS SPace: Lots of mechanics, ABSOLUTELY NO SETTING.
GURPS Lensmen: Wonderful reference, lousy for gaming. GURPS and Space Opera don't mix well.
GURPS Commonwealth: Excellent adaptation of AD Fosters' works. Not compatable with G:Space.

Worlds Beyond: Yet Another Percentile System (YAPS). At least it had good races. Even if one (the Swarr) are obvious Aslan clones.
Twighlight Imperium: Decent setting, decent rules, if YAPS. But support is still to be seen.
Web Of Stars: YAPS? (The Web Games mechanics are hard to comprehend, pooly written, and table heavy). Ship design is comparable to MT.

MT is the best rules fit for me. Setting? Late CT, ca 1085-1116.

------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!

[This message has been edited by aramis (edited 21 May 2001).]

 

[jalberti]

MT: Just right for me: I can quickly adjudicate ship vs ship, PC vs ship, PC vs PC, PC vs Tank, Tank VS Ship under one combat system. This Page shows how...

MT is the best rules fit for me. Setting? Late CT, ca 1085-1116.

[/B][/QUOTE]


I agree. MT is also the best rules fit for me as well. I use the complete MT rules without any house rules added in. I stick to "the book"

My setting is during the Rebellion and Hard Times 1116 to 1130. I have not made the decision as to whether or not Virus occurs in 1130 or not. I do not want to move to TNE (I own all the material though). I will probably have Hard Times extend beyond 1130 with no release of Virus and continue to use MT rules.... If the players live that long.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Space:1889 I forgot about this. We played it once, but were never comfortable with the system. There have been other attemps to mine the "steampunk" genre. I think the most successful is Forgotten Futures.

 

[Takei]

2300AD: I ran a short Rotten to the Core campaign with 3 players, and the rules worked perfectly well as they didn't use anything heavier than handguns. After a while a few more players joined and it moved to Auroura to have a go at the Kafers and the rules didn't seem to handle the more infantry firefight stuff too well. Went over to......

Twilight 2000 2nd Ed: The 2nd edition using d10 rules, before they went over to v2.2 and the d20 approach. These worked very well.

Aftermath: Quite complex system, but I played in a campaign for 2-3 years and it was great.

Gamma World 1st Ed: Another 2-3 year campaign that we had a great time with. Easy rules system, very space opera.

Cheers
Paul Bendall

 

[Darium]

Here's one ; The Babylon Project by Chameleon Eclectic: unusual charcter creation ( you just tell their life story so far to the GM ) the GM decides on stats/skills ect., simple +/- dice mechanic ( add witchever die was higher of two dice <one plus other minus> to your efective stat vs. the difficulty , Ineresting but deadly hit resolution system , familiar but bland background, great space combat system ( Full Thrust variant)

 

[Emperor Cleon]

Star Wars (WEG version) I guess I'm in the minority here when I say I liked it. I was 12 when Star Wars came out in '77, and it heavily influenced me. True, the system isn't realistic, but then neither is the Star Wars universe. George Lucas never claimed it was science fiction. He used the term "Space Fantasy". The SW system by WEG was revolutionary in its time and accurately portrayed the SW cinematic style.

Here's one you likely don't remember...
Star Patrol, by Gamescience (1980). It was an obvious knock-off of Traveller, but with a more Space Opera feel. I've had alot of fun with this game, and still use it occasionally today.

 

[PVernon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emperor Cleon:
Star Wars (WEG version) I guess I'm in the minority here when I say I liked it. I was 12 when Star Wars came out in '77, and it heavily influenced me. True, the system isn't realistic, but then neither is the Star Wars universe. George Lucas never claimed it was science fiction. He used the term "Space Fantasy". The SW system by WEG was revolutionary in its time and accurately portrayed the SW cinematic style.

Here's one you likely don't remember...
Star Patrol, by Gamescience (1980). It was an obvious knock-off of Traveller, but with a more Space Opera feel. I've had alot of fun with this game, and still use it occasionally today.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good! I'll tell Rocky someone is still using it.

Peter V.

 

[Gaming Glen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emperor Cleon:
Here's one you likely don't remember...
Star Patrol, by Gamescience (1980). It was an obvious knock-off of Traveller, but with a more Space Opera feel. I've had alot of fun with this game, and still use it occasionally today.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember it. A college friend of mine had it; he may still have it. He even thought about running a game back in the early 80's; but then he thought about running several games (Space Opera being one) and never did.

I got one older. *cough cough* man the dust on this one...

Star Trek, Adventure Gaming in the Final Frontier. Copyright 1978. Published by Heritage Models, Inc. Written by Michael J. Scott. Never played it. It still has two price tags on it: $4.95 crossed out and the other $2.99. What a steal!

I even got some copies of additional rules from a Different World magazine Jan. 1982.

 

[Tanuki]

I remember that one. Anyone know what Scotty is doing these days?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gaming Glen:
I remember it. A college friend of mine had it; he may still have it. He even thought about running a game back in the early 80's; but then he thought about running several games (Space Opera being one) and never did.

I got one older. *cough cough* man the dust on this one...

Star Trek, Adventure Gaming in the Final Frontier. Copyright 1978. Published by Heritage Models, Inc. Written by Michael J. Scott. Never played it. It still has two price tags on it: $4.95 crossed out and the other $2.99. What a steal!

I even got some copies of additional rules from a Different World magazine Jan. 1982.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



[This message has been edited by Tanuki (edited 25 May 2001).]

 

[Murph]

Yes, we had it back in College (78-82) and played it a couple of times during beer and pretzel sessions. Nice and fun, but not Traveller. I wonder if you can still get a copy somewhere? Is Zocchi still in business?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Emperor Cleon:
Here's one you likely don't remember...
Star Patrol, by Gamescience (1980). It was an obvious knock-off of Traveller, but with a more Space Opera feel. I've had alot of fun with this game, and still use it occasionally today.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>