Condottiere
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I miss squatting in the swamp, when I overheat.
I wonder if you can skim a gas giant, and dump some of that.
I wonder if you can skim a gas giant, and dump some of that.
T4 Only: Some people say no stealth in space, a discussion.
- Thread starter warwizard
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kilemall
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You can dump your stored heat medium there and likely not be picked up, even in the thin atmosphere part- long as it’s not a continuous trail that is clearly artificial.
Except cold giants, that might be a problem.
use laser cooling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_cooling
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Doesn't work to remove waste heat from a closed system.
Where does the waste heat generated by operating the cooling laser go?
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Of course. But remember that my quote about the Black Globes in T5 was for heat control & dissipation of absorbed energy of the black globe mechanism, not about an independent stealth heat sink (the Black Globe does that on its own - TL16 Standard / TL15 Early model).
mike wightman
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There is only one reference to heat radiators in the whole CT corpus.
There are two conclusions:
thermodynamics as we know it doesn't apply in the Traveller universe
there is a magic heat sink we have never been told about.
The issue with shunting heat to jump space are twofold
jump drive is TL9
not all ships are jump capable, eg the SDB
hence my proposal for a gravitic heat sink. All ships have gravitics these days. The waste heat is transferred via the magitech that is gravitics into the place where gravitics gets its effects from.
There are two conclusions:
thermodynamics as we know it doesn't apply in the Traveller universe
there is a magic heat sink we have never been told about.
The issue with shunting heat to jump space are twofold
jump drive is TL9
not all ships are jump capable, eg the SDB
hence my proposal for a gravitic heat sink. All ships have gravitics these days. The waste heat is transferred via the magitech that is gravitics into the place where gravitics gets its effects from.
Bleeds off as em
In other words, radiated heat.
mike wightman
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Which is an easily identified emission, so no stealth in space.
mike wightman
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Exactly, only now you have more waste heat to get rid of - there is the original heat the cooing laser cooled plus the waste heat from the cooling laser itself.
mike wightman
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I don't think you understand what a closed system is.
How does a cooling laser inside a ship cool down the ship?
How does a cooling laser inside a ship cool down the ship?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I have read the article, and I have read the article every time it is brought up in these discussions.
It will not work to cool a ship of its waste heat.
It is akin to saying let's cool the ship down by leaving the food freezer door open...
It will not work to cool a ship of its waste heat.
It is akin to saying let's cool the ship down by leaving the food freezer door open...
Mike is correct. For the system you reference to work, the Laser would have to be external to the ship and pointed at it in some way. And that laser would generate/radiate its own heat while it is operating, regardless of what it is used for.
Using such a laser inside the ship to cool molecular motion within the ship could slow the molecules, but the laser itself would generate heat while operating and radiate that heat back into the interior of the ship (which is additional heat to be gotten rid of), or would be radiated to the exterior of the ship (which is an EM emission from the ship, which is the problem).
He's not, it isn't exactly how it works. It would be able to provide a reduction, eg stealth, not using the definition of magic.
not to derail the thread (which is fun to read and I appreciate the various opinions, options and ideas out there. We never worried about stealth back in the day, but that was also before jimp shadows, jump flash and a bunch of things).
anyway - a fun read. Just wish we had a popcorn response in the like. as the back-and-forth discussions, while kept in a civil manner, are a lot of fun.
anyway - a fun read. Just wish we had a popcorn response in the like. as the back-and-forth discussions, while kept in a civil manner, are a lot of fun.
Gravitics is "magic elf stuff" that is already an integral component of the setting. Gravitational and Gravitomagnetic Radiation are Real (and not thermal or EM - they are General Relativity). Gravitics already exists in-setting to transfer gravitational energy (this is how potential energy is converted to kinetic energy and motion). And it is electrically/electromagnetically powered, which means there is an interconversion between the two.
You would have more heat in the end than you started with. Laws of Thermodynamics.
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