I would still avoid it for that reason.
T4 Only: Some people say no stealth in space, a discussion.
- Thread starter warwizard
- Start date
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
No it wouldn't.
The cooling lasers can not remove heat from a ship without dumping even more waste heat from the operation of the laser into the ship.
The article, and many others, doesn't go into the details of how the lasers are powered, how efficient they are, what happens to the heat they generate, They produce cooling of atoms and molecules and require huge amounts of energy to do so. That energy transfer generated yet more waste heat.
Anything inside the ship that is using electricity is generating waste heat. that includes these "cooling" lasers.
No cooling systems ever work at all? (they do)
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
You don't have artificial gravity or acceleration compensation? Or reactionless magic maneuver drives?
It is more about the principles of how they work, the relationship isn't one to one, such as using a medium, such as water.
I do not.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Cooling systems only work if there is somewhere to move the waste heat to, away from the system being cooled. The laser cooling system is reducing atomic and molecular vibration, but to do so is generating way more waste heat than it is cooling.
The heat from a refrigerator is radiated from the back of the fridge, and even then it is not a closed system as there is air to provide convective heat transfer and electricity id providing a constant energy input.
In a spaceship energy is generated, that produces waste heat. The energy is then converted into electricity to power things - this generates waste heat. Every electrical device within the ship generates waste heat.
So we switch on a refrigerator. Which uses electricity, which generates more waste heat, eventually the contents of the ship melt/
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Then how do ships get about?
Of course they do. They do so by moving the heat of the system (H1) they are cooling from one place, to another place outside the system, and the cooling system itself generates heat (H2) in the operation, and vents it to the same place outside the system. So the heat from the system cooled is lowered by H1, and the region outside the system is heated by (H1 + H2).
If you have your cooling laser/system inside the ship, then you cool the interior by H1, and vent H1 + H2 back into the interior, or vent H1 + H2 to the exterior, which is more than the H1 which would be radiated by natural blackbody radiation alone (i.e. it cools faster via the mechanism, but with a greater external thermal signature because there is now more heat to move).
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Recognizing that the relationship is not one to one, however it would be wrong to assume this is a standard of anything. As well as the system being external.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
We are discussing an isolated system - a T4 starship - I don't understand the relationship you are trying to make or the mention of using a medium such as water.
Change the state, and then redirect it, what cooling systems do.
Yes, I can see that, thermodynamics was one of the most difficult subjects.
And generate more heat to do so. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics says that you always generate more net heat by doing any work in a closed system (that is, looking at all elements of the system as a whole, and not excluding anything); You never break even or have net heat reduction. Period.
You say you don't like "magic elf stuff". Everything you are saying is bona fide High Sorcery. And is the open door for the invention of a perpetual motion machine.
Second law of thermodynamics - Wikipedia
I'm not saying anything, just describing the article.
Second law of thermodynamics - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I'm not saying anything, just describing the article.
But not grasping that the article is speaking from the perspective of an open thermodynamic system (i.e. the "laser" is an external element that is not addressed thermodynamically within the system itself).
I should probably have said 1st & 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics to be complete.
First law of thermodynamics
Second law of thermodynamics
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Yes, laser cooing is a very interesting process. But the thread is about stealth in space and/or masking and the issue raised was about how to reduce emissions from a vessel using components/subsystems within your vessel. How are you attempting to suggest the article speaks to that issue, given what has been discussed about the thermodynamic realities?
Or are we misunderstanding you altogether, and you are only suggesting a method of active cooling and heat control, and not a method of stealth masking?
