mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
So why can't QLI print the IN book if SJG has passed on it?
Some GURPS 4e Traveller news
- Thread starter Morte
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daryen
SOC-14 1K
Ron is correct. Mr. Hackard stated that GT is in danger of becoming an unviable product line. All LKW will say is "a lot can happen in a year" and "wait and see".
Reading between the lines (i.e. entering speculation), if Interstellar Wars does not do really well, the GT product line is probably dead. Nobles is probably important, too, but from what I can see, IW will be the litmus test.
And based on the comments of those in charge, it would appear that they do not expect it to do well enough.
Reading between the lines (i.e. entering speculation), if Interstellar Wars does not do really well, the GT product line is probably dead. Nobles is probably important, too, but from what I can see, IW will be the litmus test.
And based on the comments of those in charge, it would appear that they do not expect it to do well enough.
M
Malenfant
Guest
I'm not surprised really. As I said, it's had a good run, and maybe IW will rekindle some interest since it's kind of a new setting, but I can't see much future for GT 3I material - I think they've taken that pretty much as far as it can go. I'm not convinced that the new format will help the IW book to sell more copies though.
Though I'm under the impression from when I was on JTAS that they realised this a while ago, which makes me wonder why they renewed the license for an extra couple of years from 2003-2005 in the first place.
Though I'm under the impression from when I was on JTAS that they realised this a while ago, which makes me wonder why they renewed the license for an extra couple of years from 2003-2005 in the first place.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
I don't know. They didn't *have* to come to the end of the run, unless they wanted to.
The big problem I saw with GT is that they never did anything with it. All they did was continually add chrome to the setting. Great. But nothing ever happened.
How about a good ole Solomani Civil War? How about some Imperial royal intrigue? How about a blowup in the Border Worlds? How about a human rebellion in the Vegan region?
They have hinted at all of these things, but absolutely refused to do anything with them. What's wrong with a little action?
And, just to clarify, I don't mean something like Virus or Rebellion where everything is blown up. What I would have liked to see is something like the old 5FW. Stuff happened. Some allegiances changes, but the overall setting was still stable. Any of those things above could operate the same.
The big problem I saw with GT is that they never did anything with it. All they did was continually add chrome to the setting. Great. But nothing ever happened.
How about a good ole Solomani Civil War? How about some Imperial royal intrigue? How about a blowup in the Border Worlds? How about a human rebellion in the Vegan region?
They have hinted at all of these things, but absolutely refused to do anything with them. What's wrong with a little action?
And, just to clarify, I don't mean something like Virus or Rebellion where everything is blown up. What I would have liked to see is something like the old 5FW. Stuff happened. Some allegiances changes, but the overall setting was still stable. Any of those things above could operate the same.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Funny you should mention a Solomani Civil War and Royal intrigue 
If you read the TAS News bulletins they are building to those very things, but I'll bet it's left to individual referees to implement these ideas.
If you read the TAS News bulletins they are building to those very things, but I'll bet it's left to individual referees to implement these ideas.
M
Malenfant
Guest
Problem is, whenever anyone does anything with Traveller, people start complaining - see MT and TNE for details.
The TNS bulletins appear to be building up to a Solomani Civil War, but if they're not going to take the 3I era anywhere then it's too little, too late. But they never covered any of that in the official books, which is where it matters.
That said, I really like the "chrome" they added to the setting - it was desperately needed I think (especially the aliens books. I'd been waiting for years to find out what the K'Kree were like since DGP hadn't covered them and the old CT alien modules were impossible for me to find).
The TNS bulletins appear to be building up to a Solomani Civil War, but if they're not going to take the 3I era anywhere then it's too little, too late. But they never covered any of that in the official books, which is where it matters.
That said, I really like the "chrome" they added to the setting - it was desperately needed I think (especially the aliens books. I'd been waiting for years to find out what the K'Kree were like since DGP hadn't covered them and the old CT alien modules were impossible for me to find).
daryen
SOC-14 1K
The reason people complained about MT and TNE is because the events smashed the prior settings into little itty-bitty pieces, then burnt the pieces into ash, then swept the ash out the door.
That is NOT what I am asking for. I am asking for something like the example I will always point to: CT's 5FW. This was wonderfully implemented, kept the setting moving, caused some changes, but didn't kill the setting.
Examples that should have been done in GT, but haven't:
- Solomani Civil War. Quit hinting around. Let the bullets/missles/beams start flying. Make bad crap happen in the bordering Imperial subsectors, too. At the end, the border can change, the SC can be split into two/three/whatever. Doesn't matter as long as something happens and the setting is not killed.
- Royal shenanigans. Quit hinting and do it. Have Varian or Lucan die. Messily. Have Varian collaborating with the Zhodani/Solomani/Julians. Have Ciencia pregnant, but not from her fiance. Heck, even have Stephon die, and deal with the succession. (He doesn't have to be assassinated, just an accident/illness.) No civil war, just political nastiness.
- Have Moudray do something other than just exist. Have the Droyne start acting organized for some unknown purpose that must eventually be crushed.
- Have the Border Worlds implode. The Imperium gets egg on its face. The Zhodani gloat. The Sword Worlds beckon. The Darrians fret. A small scale war ensues with interesting local effects.
These are just some of the obvious examples that were already brought up in GT supplements and/or JTAS. But nothing actually happened. And now it is too late.
That is NOT what I am asking for. I am asking for something like the example I will always point to: CT's 5FW. This was wonderfully implemented, kept the setting moving, caused some changes, but didn't kill the setting.
Examples that should have been done in GT, but haven't:
- Solomani Civil War. Quit hinting around. Let the bullets/missles/beams start flying. Make bad crap happen in the bordering Imperial subsectors, too. At the end, the border can change, the SC can be split into two/three/whatever. Doesn't matter as long as something happens and the setting is not killed.
- Royal shenanigans. Quit hinting and do it. Have Varian or Lucan die. Messily. Have Varian collaborating with the Zhodani/Solomani/Julians. Have Ciencia pregnant, but not from her fiance. Heck, even have Stephon die, and deal with the succession. (He doesn't have to be assassinated, just an accident/illness.) No civil war, just political nastiness.
- Have Moudray do something other than just exist. Have the Droyne start acting organized for some unknown purpose that must eventually be crushed.
- Have the Border Worlds implode. The Imperium gets egg on its face. The Zhodani gloat. The Sword Worlds beckon. The Darrians fret. A small scale war ensues with interesting local effects.
These are just some of the obvious examples that were already brought up in GT supplements and/or JTAS. But nothing actually happened. And now it is too late.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
I am not sure who "Michael" is (could be me), but you did remind me of something. A while ago I had asked you (and NAF) about what you had intended to do with the various loose threads in BtC. You (or NAF) had said you would post your intentions "soon", but "soon" unfortunately never arrived.
If you are allowed to, I would appreciate seeing what you were planning.
BTW, BtC is an excellent example of what I am talking about with GT. It introduced an absolute ton of good ideas that were almost completely ignored. There has to be something like over a dozen solid (and significant) ideas and hints in there. Of those, only two have been mentioned since, and those were pretty much dismissed (Barekdoldin; Excalibur's rogue moon).
M
Malenfant
Guest
You know what might be interesting... a new Spinward Marches book, done by QLI for T20. Preferably without the mile long errata that BtC had, and with some serious playtesting/proofreading/realitychecking like we're doing for the TNE:1248 book. From what I've gathered, it seems that what Martin et al wrote for the GT BtC book was a bit more "cinematic" than what SJG had in mind for the GT line, but it probably would fit into T20 nicely. I dunno if Martin would be able to publish his ideas from BtC in T20 though...
But still, what would you have had SJG do with it anyway? They don't publish adventures, the little 32-64 page books didn't sell enough to be profitable... about all they could have done with it was do a few TNS bulletins expanding some of the plots. Maybe that was the whole problem with the GT line - there were no adventures. Every other version of Traveller has had them, but not GURPS.
And as for that rogue moon... IIRC that was one of those little physical impossibilities we had to overlook for canon's sake in the Sword Worlds book - Excalibur is tide-locked, which means it can't have any moons.
But still, what would you have had SJG do with it anyway? They don't publish adventures, the little 32-64 page books didn't sell enough to be profitable... about all they could have done with it was do a few TNS bulletins expanding some of the plots. Maybe that was the whole problem with the GT line - there were no adventures. Every other version of Traveller has had them, but not GURPS.
And as for that rogue moon... IIRC that was one of those little physical impossibilities we had to overlook for canon's sake in the Sword Worlds book - Excalibur is tide-locked, which means it can't have any moons.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
How to do it? I am not entirely sure, but TNS is a good place to start. But even the TNS entries don't have anything substantial going on. Not having adventure or campaign books is a problem.
My point on the moon was not that it was or was not physically possible. Just that a "plot hook" was introduced, but then (effectively) discarded with no effect.
As for the Spinward Marches, if Hunter and MJD want a treatment for T20, I will do it. I figure I am going to have to do much of the legwork anyway. What I think would be fun (and useful) to do is cover just the Spinward Marches, but cover both the 993 and the 1112 time periods.
My point on the moon was not that it was or was not physically possible. Just that a "plot hook" was introduced, but then (effectively) discarded with no effect.
As for the Spinward Marches, if Hunter and MJD want a treatment for T20, I will do it. I figure I am going to have to do much of the legwork anyway. What I think would be fun (and useful) to do is cover just the Spinward Marches, but cover both the 993 and the 1112 time periods.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
...I'm making a list...
Micheal is Sigg Oddra, who will no doubt bug me with questions this evening as usual. Fortunately we only game once a month...
As to the BtC stuff, I forgot about that. Things are frantic right now doing things that *really* need to be done as opposed to things I'd like to do. Not sure what the situation with SJG would be if I were to reveal what i was thinking at the time, nor if my 'answers' will match what those who later developed the product line did with them.
I'll try to do something on that one eventually but time is short here (I have 9000 words of a book on smallarms to write in the next 7 hours...)
As to the BtC stuff, I forgot about that. Things are frantic right now doing things that *really* need to be done as opposed to things I'd like to do. Not sure what the situation with SJG would be if I were to reveal what i was thinking at the time, nor if my 'answers' will match what those who later developed the product line did with them.
I'll try to do something on that one eventually but time is short here (I have 9000 words of a book on smallarms to write in the next 7 hours...)
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Just to be clear, I am only asking what you (and NAF) intended. I am not worried about what others were going to do with the ideas.
And for what it is worth, in the original thread, Jon Zeigler said it was OK for you to post your ideas.
I understand. It is not a "now" thing, just a "thought I would mention it again" thing.
M
Malenfant
Guest
Thing is, if it's gonna be fixed, it had better be done right. Though if an SM book got the sort of playtest that we're having for the TNE:1248 book then there'd probably be no problems (so long as we had the ability to totally disregard anything utterly stupid that already existed in SM canon).
etherflyer
SOC-12
The problem is that the plot hook didn't work as written.
This is the biggest problem with throw-away references -- unless the writer has worked everything out, it is very easy to create situations that don't bear up to closer examination.
etherflyer
SOC-12
No, it doesn't actually.
Every time JTAS editors have changed I've had to resubmit everything I had in the slushpile. So having your work disappear isn't unusual.
As well, Loren can be rather disorganized, and as he's freelancing he only has a limited amount of time to devote to JTAS, so catching up on old business is likely taking a back seat to getting a fresh issue out and earning enough money to pay the rent...
My advice: resubmit the article to JTAS with the tag "[RESUBMISSION]" and a short explanation that you have incorporated the changes Alain asked for.
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