Runt

"Name's Rrukksa Uerraelaz. And yeah, that's my Corsair in Hangar 2. Well, I want to join the Merchants Hvaek. I want her to go legit."

 

[Jame]

No, they are not. Most are actually quite small.

What you are showing here is most likely an example of bad art (I mean, look at the hands on that guy!), or possibly -- and more charitably -- a depiction of a 'typical' (Imperial) human compared to an example of the bulky Urzaeng subspecies of Vargr, as they are the only ones who are even remotely comparable to the average human in size. Most Vargr are, as numerous texts have stated, 'physically unimpressive'.

I think part of the problem is that the height and weight measurements for Traveller races are typically rendered in metric, something that most Americans know and understand, but don't really 'feel'. So, in the interest of clarity, I am going to give the heights and weights of some of the Human and Vargr species/subspecies in Freedom Units.

Let's start with the humans:

The average Vilani man is around 5' 7" and 155 pounds, according to V&V. The Traveller Wiki makes them a little taller and heavier, at probably 5' 9" and 165 pounds. The average Vilani woman is about 5' 3" and 145 pounds, according to V&V. Add maybe an inch and five pounds for the Wiki version.

The average Solomani (no sex given) is about 5' 11" and ... uhhh ... 220 pounds(?!), according to the Wiki (note to readers: this is probably an example of American writers not having a 'feel' for metric measurements). Fortunately, V&V provides an out for this, noting that Solomani typically weigh about 38kg/m, which translates to about 150 pounds. Considering the numbers given, we can safely assume that these are for men. Typical Solomani women would then probably be around 5' 6" and 135 pounds, give or take.

The average Imperial, then, is somewhere in-between. Let's say 5' 9" and 152 pounds for men, and 5' 5" and 140 pounds for women.

The average Zhodani is just about 6' 5" and 200 pounds, according to Mongoose. Again, there is no sex given, so I am going to assume that is for men, and napkin-calculate the women to be about 6' 2" and 180 pounds.

The average Geonee is about 4' 11" and 160 pounds, according to GURPS, with no difference between the men and women. The Wiki has them much lighter in weight, about 145 pounds, but I think I side with GURPS on this, given their high-G homeworld.

Now for the Vargr

The main ('wild type') Vargr male (about 67% of the race, according to Mongoose) is about 5' 3" and 130 pounds. Females average about 4' 11" and 120 pounds. These numbers also likely apply to the spotted-furred, extra-psionic Akumgeda (8% of all Vargr), and the weird, hyper-psionic Roth Thokken (3% of Vargr). So almost four out of five Vargr fit this morphology.

The outcast, strongly psionic Nakagun (about 3% of Vargr) average about 5' 1" and 120 pounds, both males and the females.

The brainiac Kokashan ('nearly extinct', according to Mongoose) are about 4' 9" and 110 pounds for the males, and 4' 7" and 100 pounds for the females.

The big, dumb Urzaeng (around 17% of Vargr) are about 6' 1" and 155 pounds, apparently both the males and females. Note that statements that they can go toe-to-toe with an Aslan are not due to them being comparatively equal in size or strength (they are definitely not, as a typical Aslan male is 6' 7" tall and 220 pounds), but rather due to the fact that the Urzaeng are almost as strong as them and much, much quicker. The typical physical UPP for an Aslan is 957, while one for an Urzaeng is 897; that's an average four point difference in dexterity in favor of the Urzaeng!

Whooooosh! "Whoah, is that a dewclaw I see?" Whooooosh! "Tough luck, Simba!" Whooooosh! "Can't hurt what you can't touch, big guy!"

At any rate, the only Vargr that could conceivably tower over an average human -- or even see eye to eye -- is an Urzaeng, and even then it would not be that overwhelming to the human, as weight-wise Urzaeng appear to be of more gracile build than most humans (in fact, all Vargr come off that way, regardless of height). Only a Geonee would have to consistently look up to any Vargr (but clearly not all!), and considering the extra 30+ pounds of bulk a Geonee would also be sporting in comparison, I do not think they would be very intimidated by the experience either.

What the Vargr do have over humans are quickness, speed, and occasional superior psionic ability, with up to one-seventh of them capable of mustering mind-powers that would even make the Zhodani stand up and take notice!

Heh. Maybe they should be the rulers of the Consulate.

You've put a lot of work into that. And that's cool.

 

[The Pakkrat]

Rrukksa: "Thirzar doesn't want the chair. An ex-Belter, she knows all the paperwork and responsibilities that come with command on a ship like this one. No, she prefers to stand behind the chair and bark in my ear. Good qualities in Chief Engineer I say."

 

[The Pakkrat]

Rrukksa: "It was either repairs or a paint job. I chose repairs."

 

[The Pakkrat]

Rrukksa: "Yeah, this little slice of murder nearly got me on Lavras. Zo probably saved my life that day on the tarmac."

 

[Commander Truestar]

No, they are not. Most are actually quite small.

What you are showing here is most likely an example of bad art

You responded to my post which had the actual art from the the GDW Alien Module #3: Vargr
So, that is how GDW drew them and they invented the Vargr.

But, again, you have the right to do what you want IYTU and should not be insulting when you show your ignorance.

Of course, I will likely be attacked for being nasty myself even though you seem to have gotten a free pass.

 

[Grav_Moped]

I think there's a case to be made that the Humans of the TU are not actually the same as Real Life Humans - TU Humaniti does 'stable' much better than we do!

TU Humaniti (the NPCs at least) are very stable. They're the grown-up versions of the kids in small midwestern towns that weren't in the RPG clubs, didn't go on to college, who stayed home and settled down with people like themselves.

Player Characters are the ones who left for college and The Big City, or went into the military to see the world, and never looked back.

 

[Dragoner]

I'm here for the art, though about height, we are pretty variable as well, Schwarzenegger isn't a small guy at 6'2:

 

[Commander Truestar]

I'm here for the art, though about height, we are pretty variable as well, Schwarzenegger isn't a small guy at 6'2:

For the most part, I agree.
I come here and look for art that can be used (and credited) IMTU.
But, as said, GDW did design, commission, and publish what one has to assume is an "Average Comparison" between a male Human and Vargr.

So, given they "invented" the Vargr and published artwork including both the image I shared and many others which match Human and Vargr height in their varied publications.

So, to have someone obviously ignorant of the GDW/FFE published art come in and dismiss it as "an example of bad art"

It bears pointing out that while "a poster's opinion" is valid in that poster's TU, their opinion reflects the lack of research and understanding of the Universe which GDW/FFE and even Mongoose provide.

That the person made offensive comments which showed their ignorance of the subject material and used "protective wording" tells me they:
1) Don't know the universe as well as they could
2) Despite that, they want their interpretation to be recognized as "correct"
3) Have an ego which is too fragile to accept correction

As said, they are absolutely welcomed to run their TU the way they want.
But, I "advise" they recognize there is source material they are unaware of and should consider learning from it instead of relegating it as "an example of bad art"

 

[Commander Truestar]

As to different sized Humans and Vargr....
Here is a very obviously "shorter than Zhodani" vargr (while granted the Vargr is crouching)
Also, in this case, based on GDW, GURPS, DGP and FFE, the Zhodani are taller than the average Human
This is the cover art for GURPS "Alien Races 1"

 

[Commander Truestar]

Also from GURPS "Alien Races 1"
Look! A vargr that is the same height as a human....
again, this is official art, and should not be ignored as "an example of bad art" simply because it does not agree with your personal opinion

 

[Dragoner]

For the most part, I agree

You are in somebody else's art thread

 

[Vargr Breath]

JTAS-08, 1981
Contact! The Vargr, by Frank Chadwick and Loren Wiseman
"Physically, the Vargr are not very impressive. The typical Vargr is about 1.6 meters in height and weighs approx- imately 100 kilograms."
I think that was supposed to be pounds, not kilograms.

The Traveller Adventure, 1983
. "Physically, Vargr are not very impressive. A typical Vargr is about 1.6 meters in height and weighs approximately 60 kilograms."

Traveller Alien Module 3- Vargr, 1984
"Physically, contemporary Vargr are not very impressive. The typical Vargr is about 1.6 meters in height and weighs approximately 60 kilograms"
This was the same book that shows the Vargr as human sized.

So, it looks to me the average Vargr is around 1.6m or around 5.3ft. But there is a lot of variation allowed in character generation. A strength roll of 2D - 1 could give you a large range of sizes.

 

[mike wightman]

The height comparison graphic in T5 shows Vargr to be shorter then human. Never base any of your conceptions on how they look on the artwork, Just look what Mongoose have done with their vision of the Kilrathi Kzinti Aslan despite all the extant text describing Alsan.

 

[Commander Truestar]

You are in somebody else's art thread

I am,
That does not mean a person should dismiss GDW/FFE published art as "an example of bad art"
Doing so is like dismissing a sheet of Dr. Einstein's work "amateurish and rife with inaccuracies"

I would add that my initial post, with the GDW/FFE published art was entirely polite
And that post was responded to in an insulting manner for no reason - except, presumably, that the responding poster wanted to be correct.

And, yet, I am the one being attacked - not the the attacking poster


Last post on this thread - no value in continuing

 

[Vargr Breath]

I always thought it strange that all the written descriptions of the Vargr list them as much shorter than humans. But most of the artwork show them at human size.
There used to be a guy on TV who said he got a lot of parts in western movies back in the day because he was around 6' 3" tall. He said no one wanted to see John Wayne fight some little guy.
I wonder if they (the artist) didn't think a small Vargr looked like enough of a threat to humans, so they made them look larger.

 

[Badenov]

I'm sure the impression of vargr being tall is mostly due to action-show actor John Woof, who is actually very tall for vargr.

 

[The Pakkrat]

Thirzar: "Rrukksa, Zo is a Rogue, an ex-con. Even without being born Irilitok, she could sell Combination-A to shirtsleeves world primitives in bulk!"

 

[The Pakkrat]

Dominator: "...the body of some IT console groatboy nerd. But it
could have been worse. I could have been slotted by a dame... "

 

[mike wightman]

What is more likely to be correct, the textual description in many books, the body size comparison drawings in T5, or a load of art from people who "interpret" without reading the actual description.

 

[The Pakkrat]

Thirzar: "How in the Ancients did a Merchant come by a Corsair in just one term??"
Rrukksa: "Ready for a story about a young Corsair cub?"