<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mjwest:
OK, I'll bite: What, as exactly as possible, is meant by a "modern" engine. What makes a "modern" RPG engine modern and what makes CT (or MT, for that matter) "old"?
I can see where CT got so overtaken by all of the additions that it became overgrown and inconsistent. But from what I remember, MT was pretty consistent, and went to pretty extreme lengths to make sure stuff actually fit together. What about MT (besides the starship construction) was too complex, or was not simple enough?
I am not trying to be a jerk here. I am actually curious as to what features a "modern" RPG engine should have, and, by extension, what features it should *not* have.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Following IMHO, based upon a wide variety of game engines in my collection:
1) Single, simple mechanic for ALL tasks.
2) Story Oriented character generation (not random)
3) lack of randomizer tables for common things
4) process based rules, rather than table based.
5) emphasis upon story over rules.
6) strong setings with inherent conflict †
7) autosuccess rules and strong encouragements to use them
8) No Clear Good/Evil †
9) Point of view varies in setting materials; often modern systems totally lack an objective viewpoint within the setting materials.
10) Fairly narrow attribute ranges for humans (1-5 typical, sometimes 2-5)
11) Setting takes as much or more of book as rules; often setting specific rules 2-10 times the core rules in size.
12) PC Background as important as PC attributes and skills.
ones marked with † are ones Traveller traditionally had (At least for CT/MT).
Note also that I count 5-6 generations of games
1) Early Class and Level: D&D, OD&D, T&T
2) Early Skill Based: Traveller, Runequest 1-3rd eds, Chaosium Engine, TFT
{fundamentally, a reaction to class and level in most cases}
3) Ballanced Point Generators: GURPS, Hero
4) Hybrid Class, level, & Skill: Rolemaster, Palladium, Dark Realms, Better Games FSRP (Battle Born, G/Sol, Rogue Swords, Arabian Sea Tales, Crimson Cutlass)
{A return to the simplicity of classes as archetypes, and usually experience point systems, but without being tied to the limitations of a class as a skill set)
5) Clan/Clique/type "Story-games": WWG's Storyteller, L5R, Cyberpunk/interlock, Fading Suns
6)hybridizing the first five in new ways with an eye towards story:
6.1) second generation point ballanced: CORPS, EABA, Silloette (Heavy Gear, jovian Chronicles)
6.2) second geration Hybrids: D&D 3E/D20
6.3) Totally rules light: FUDGE, Sherpa, Twerps
Traveller consistantly has resisted a move away from random generation and heaavy tables-based rules. Both as a community and as a series of game-designs. (And I myself am guilty of this, too. I'm not living in glass houses...)A whole generation is growing up with rulesets where ANY weapon is a single line, a whole character can fit on an index card, and the stats don't matter if you can describe the action dramatically enough.
The most recent and modern games totally divert the rules to being GM calls, not fixed hard-line definitions of a pseudo-reality. I think this will pass soon. But the hobby is, as a whole, once again moving away from "Minis rules with roleplay" to "Pure Roleplay". Most of the new generation have Not played a minis game; that is become a separate hobby with little overlap, at least in my area.
Some games have tried to remain tied to both minis and roleplay; but others are separate systems sharing a background (and maybe base dice rolling protocols). the industry is at a crossroads; again, D&D is the name to follow (and it is really a rehash of the early 80's approaches). WW's storyteller is still going strong, too. Rifts is still gaining ground, with what is essentially a late 70's hybrid Skill/C&L engine. (I like the rifts concept, but not the palladium engine).
------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
OK, I'll bite: What, as exactly as possible, is meant by a "modern" engine. What makes a "modern" RPG engine modern and what makes CT (or MT, for that matter) "old"?
I can see where CT got so overtaken by all of the additions that it became overgrown and inconsistent. But from what I remember, MT was pretty consistent, and went to pretty extreme lengths to make sure stuff actually fit together. What about MT (besides the starship construction) was too complex, or was not simple enough?
I am not trying to be a jerk here. I am actually curious as to what features a "modern" RPG engine should have, and, by extension, what features it should *not* have.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Following IMHO, based upon a wide variety of game engines in my collection:
1) Single, simple mechanic for ALL tasks.
2) Story Oriented character generation (not random)
3) lack of randomizer tables for common things
4) process based rules, rather than table based.
5) emphasis upon story over rules.
6) strong setings with inherent conflict †
7) autosuccess rules and strong encouragements to use them
8) No Clear Good/Evil †
9) Point of view varies in setting materials; often modern systems totally lack an objective viewpoint within the setting materials.
10) Fairly narrow attribute ranges for humans (1-5 typical, sometimes 2-5)
11) Setting takes as much or more of book as rules; often setting specific rules 2-10 times the core rules in size.
12) PC Background as important as PC attributes and skills.
ones marked with † are ones Traveller traditionally had (At least for CT/MT).
Note also that I count 5-6 generations of games
1) Early Class and Level: D&D, OD&D, T&T
2) Early Skill Based: Traveller, Runequest 1-3rd eds, Chaosium Engine, TFT
{fundamentally, a reaction to class and level in most cases}
3) Ballanced Point Generators: GURPS, Hero
4) Hybrid Class, level, & Skill: Rolemaster, Palladium, Dark Realms, Better Games FSRP (Battle Born, G/Sol, Rogue Swords, Arabian Sea Tales, Crimson Cutlass)
{A return to the simplicity of classes as archetypes, and usually experience point systems, but without being tied to the limitations of a class as a skill set)
5) Clan/Clique/type "Story-games": WWG's Storyteller, L5R, Cyberpunk/interlock, Fading Suns
6)hybridizing the first five in new ways with an eye towards story:
6.1) second generation point ballanced: CORPS, EABA, Silloette (Heavy Gear, jovian Chronicles)
6.2) second geration Hybrids: D&D 3E/D20
6.3) Totally rules light: FUDGE, Sherpa, Twerps
Traveller consistantly has resisted a move away from random generation and heaavy tables-based rules. Both as a community and as a series of game-designs. (And I myself am guilty of this, too. I'm not living in glass houses...)A whole generation is growing up with rulesets where ANY weapon is a single line, a whole character can fit on an index card, and the stats don't matter if you can describe the action dramatically enough.
The most recent and modern games totally divert the rules to being GM calls, not fixed hard-line definitions of a pseudo-reality. I think this will pass soon. But the hobby is, as a whole, once again moving away from "Minis rules with roleplay" to "Pure Roleplay". Most of the new generation have Not played a minis game; that is become a separate hobby with little overlap, at least in my area.
Some games have tried to remain tied to both minis and roleplay; but others are separate systems sharing a background (and maybe base dice rolling protocols). the industry is at a crossroads; again, D&D is the name to follow (and it is really a rehash of the early 80's approaches). WW's storyteller is still going strong, too. Rifts is still gaining ground, with what is essentially a late 70's hybrid Skill/C&L engine. (I like the rifts concept, but not the palladium engine).
------------------
-aramis
=============================================
Smith & Wesson: The Original Point and Click interface!
