Required reading....

[Gatsby]

I am trying to give some newbies (maybe, hereafter referred to as Landscapers?

) some knowledge of Traveller's roots. They don't quite get it, yet.

It is my belief that the much beloved game, Traveller, grew out of a love for the works of many authors and influences. WE loved Traveller because it was 'in' with the stories we loved. You could read and then play! It was 'a game for science fiction fans' not 'a Sci-Fi game for roleplayers'.

Is that confusing?

You know, with classic D&D you can say - read Lord of the Rings, Elric, Conan, Fafhred and the Grey Mouser. That's some of what that game meant.

So what did Miller et al have on their bookshleves when they were thinking of slapping some rules together?

Note: this isn't a question of what is good or bad in books or a 'favourites list'...it is what were THEY reading when the LBBs were coming out...what influenced the shaping of the Classic Traveller?

A list like that would help get the Landscapers into it....and give them some good books to read, too!

Some guesses:
Foundation series by Asimov for it's Imperium.
Slippery Jim DiGriz series by Harrison for Gauss Guns and Special Agents
Laumer's Retief series for Diplomats
Niven's Known Space and Ringworld for Scouts? Definately for Scientists
Lensman Series by Smith
Starship Troopers by Heinlein and, Maybe, Hammer's Slammers for Mercenaries.
I,Robot for Robots.

Yes, like D&D, Traveller was an Amalgam of type, and THAT's why we loved it.

....Now, back to my FIRST time through the Foundation series when I am not looking over the deck plans of a Sloan class Fleet Escort.

....I am back and I am happy.

....Wonder if my 4 yr old and 2 yr. old boys are too young for H.G Wells and Asimov? Maybe Clarke...yeah Rama for bed-time stories...I'll bide my time...

Gats'

 

[mjwest]

In Supp 4 there is a small list of characters from fiction "translated" into Traveller. It also mentions some that were listed in Supp 1.

One could easily surmise that these stories were a good foundation for the GDW staff to draw from.

These listed are:
Star Wars, by George Lucas
The Stainless Steel Rat; Deathworld Trilogy, by Harry Harrison
Sword and Sceptre; The Mercenary, by Jerry Pournelle
Sector General series, by James White
Retief series, by Keith Laumer
Star Trek (!)
The Stars, Like Dust, by Isaac Asimov
John Carter of Mars series, by ER Burrough
Lensman series, by EE Smith
Dumarest Saga, by EC Tubb
At the Core and Other Stories of Known Space, by Larry Niven
Starwell; The Thurb Revolution, by Alexei Panshin
Flandry series, by Poul Anderson
Demon Prince series, by Jack Vance
The Stars, My Destination, by Alfred Bester

 

[FlightCommanderSolitude]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gatsby:
So what did Miller et al have on their bookshleves when they were thinking of slapping some rules together?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let's not forget Frank Herbert's Dune series.

I find the political flavor and human-centered-ness of Herbert's Imperium to be amenable to the OTU.

Also, did anyone catch the reference (in Twilight's Peak, I think) to a desert planet where they harvest spice?

-FCS

 

[T. Foster]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mjwest:
Star Wars, by George Lucas
The Stainless Steel Rat; Deathworld Trilogy, by Harry Harrison
Sword and Sceptre; The Mercenary, by Jerry Pournelle
Sector General series, by James White
Retief series, by Keith Laumer
Star Trek (!)
The Stars, Like Dust, by Isaac Asimov
John Carter of Mars series, by ER Burrough
Lensman series, by EE Smith
Dumarest Saga, by EC Tubb
At the Core and Other Stories of Known Space, by Larry Niven
Starwell; The Thurb Revolution, by Alexei Panshin
Flandry series, by Poul Anderson
Demon Prince series, by Jack Vance
The Stars, My Destination, by Alfred Bester<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Others with no character-stats given, but just as influential:

*Foundation Trilogy, Robot series, by Isaac Asimov
*Star Viking, Imperium, et al., by H. Beam Piper
*Dune (first book, at least), by Frank Herbert
*Starship Troopers, by Robert Heinlein
*Polesoltechnic League series, by Anderson (R.I.P.)
*Arthur C. Clarke (actually, I can't trace much specific influence from any of the Clarke books I've read, but MWM et al. always cited him as influential nonetheless)
*Free Trader series, by Andre Norton (?, I haven't read any of these, but people always cite them, and the name certainly fits)
*Roman History
*Miniatures and wargames, Ancient thru Modern

The MOST influential (of those I've read) seem to be Asimov, Anderson, Piper, Tubb, and Heinlein; they are as close to the feel of Traveller as Howard, Leiber, Burroughs, de Camp & Pratt, and Vance are to D&D.

 

[GypsyComet]

My impression has been that the Traveller Free Trader model is about 50-50 Anderson's Falkayn books (the "Polesothechnic League" cycle, also known for Nicholas van Rijn) and Norton's Solar Queen books (labeled above as her "Free Trader" books). Also the whole "taped Jump course" thing (an early Traveller-ism that seems to have faded after the Imperium took on a life of its own...) is Norton, and is found in any of her SF that involves a ship's bridge...

I could probably come up with a specific reading list for Norton, but those books are all at my parent's place right now, so I'd have to get back to you...

A reading list for Anderson should also include the later "Psychotechnic League" stories, most easily accessed via the three or four volume collected stories of a decade ago. I'd also add "Tales of the Flying Mountains" to the list. His Maori stories are also full of ideas for Scout infiltrations...

I could go on, but it starts turning into a favorite books thread if I do...

[This message has been edited by GypsyComet (edited 07 August 2001).]

 

[Uncle Bob]

Dune keeps getting mentioned, and it certainly was one of the widest read and most influential books of the '60s, but I don't see much influence in Traveller. Yeah, there was an Imperial government, but it seems to me the the Traveller Imperium has more in common with the Imperiums of Anderson or Asimov than Herbert.

Herbert's politics, government, and society are dominated by monolithic great houses and guilds, while the Imperium and most Traveller settings give more scope to the individual. Space travel is tightly controlled and depends on huge ships, unlike the accessible technology of Traveller. Also the mystic and religious elements have no parallel in Traveller (although I suppose they could be developed from Psionics, with difficulty). And finally, the epic scope seems incompatable with Traveller adventures.

Other authors that have more commonality of mood and setting are James Schmitz (esp Three Witches of Karres, although I can find no direct influence) and H. Beam Piper (the Sword Worlds are CT and elements of Space Viking turn up in TNE.)

[This message has been edited by Uncle Bob (edited 08 August 2001).]

 

[Gallowglass]

The 2300AD Director's Guide makes a distinction between Science Fantasy (e.g. Burrough's Mars), Space Opera (Star Wars) and Hard Science Fiction (Cherryh's Alliance Union books).

My impression is that Traveller-as-game was always intended to encompass all three. I have distant memories of converting both Blake's Seven and Dune tech to LBB Traveller and aticles such as Andy Slack's Backdrop of Stars certainly encouraged people to consider all sorts of books. On the other hand, Traveller-as-setting very rapidly settled into Hard SF mode. The technology tried to avoid excess technobabble and many of the supplements and adventures dwelt on the scientific plausibility of what they were saying to a much greater degree than would be required in a Space Fantasy or Space Opera setting.

My understanding has always been that the core influences on the OTU were Anderson and Piper.

 

[TJP]

I said this earlier in another thread, but I'll say it again -- Niven and Pournelle: The Mote in God's Eye. That must have been read by MWM. I read it after I'd been acquainted with Traveller and immediately found a lot in common in those two.

 

[trader james]

this fellow traveller gatsby has
got it!! he has blasted it right in the head. traveller is based
on pure imagination. to exercise
your imagination you read. i am
now off duty sitting in my cabin
on the way to locust 2, reading an old copy Analog. if you want
truly outstanding traveller research or senerio material, check E-bay - go to magizines - go to sci-fi check it out - go to
pulps check it out. go to sci-fi
paperbacks check it out. stop and think about it. its a treasure trove!!! every mag and book is avaiable from the 30's to 2000 -
they all come up sooner or later!! then think how you could
"convert" stories to traveller ideas. there!!! one secret is out.

 

[Capital_Q]

I have to agree with TJP, Niven and Pournelles' Mote books are dripping with Traveller flavor. Fuedal government, humanocentric outlook, noble naval officers, merchant princes, black globe generators and more. The jump drive "science" is cool too, though not very Traveller. Basically your week is spent accelerating to jump point at a gravity well. No G-comps either.

 

[kafka47]

For me:

Original Asimov Foundation Trilogy, after that they sort of lost their way.

The Jefferson Sywcaffer Traveller novels.

Anything by Martin Dougherty.

Some Arthur C. Clarke stuff, particularly his earlier work.

Keith brothers fiction, in their Traveller phase.

 

[solomani_interloper]

The "Hammer's Slammers" stories must be in there somewhere (Mercenary Bonds) and I always thought the original "Dorsai" trilogy had a whiff of Traveller's mercenary missions.

I once had (That's "once had" as in never loan your books to post-grad students), a copy of a lecture Thomas Disch gave in which he commented on the homoerotic element of "Starship Troopers" - incredibly funny stuff

 

[Psion]

Originally posted by TJP:
I said this earlier in another thread, but I'll say it again -- Niven and Pournelle: The Mote in God's Eye.

I'll second (or third) that. The "empire navy" feel is right up the Traveller alley, and I strongly suspect that this is where the 6G limit in Traveller came from.

Other "me too's"

Ensign Flandry series, by Poul Anderson
Niven's Known Space stories
Piper's space vikings
Vance's demon princes
Foundation trilogy
Dune

 

[solomani_interloper]

... oh and thinking about it, how about Eric Frank Russell's "Next of Kin" as a model for the single crewed Scout ship?

 

[Nearside]

I think, for my experiences, movies were always a stronger influence than books, though I don't want to go off topic.

How about comic books? 2000AD, for my fellow Brits, and much more recently 2001 Nights, a great serious of books that borrowed very heavily from ACC, at least as far as I could see.

I've read a lot of Asimov and Clarke, but mostly their non-fiction stuff. Clarke's essays are always excellent, and a great source of inspiration.

 

[GypsyComet]

Originally posted by solomani_interloper:
... oh and thinking about it, how about Eric Frank Russell's "Next of Kin" as a model for the single crewed Scout ship?

Possibly, though Niven's Singleships and the John Grimes books by A. Bertram Chandler did this as well.

 

[William]

For me, the greatest recent influence has been Bujold's Vorkosigan series.

William

 

[Vargr Breath]

Hi
Try "The Fifth Foreign Legion" books by William & Andrew Keith. They have a Traveller/2300 feel. They are older books so you will have to hunt for them.Try abebooks.com or bookfinder.com .

 

[solomani_interloper]

... another example of single scouts has just come to mind - Poul Anderson's "Virgin Planet". I think the Eric Frank Russell novel is earlier tho.

I pilfered plots from various sources - van Vogt especially (How about "Voyage of the Space Beagle" for the original inspiration behind "Alien"?).

I work for a publisher with a pitifully small SF list, but they did an excellent history of the Foreign Legion that added extra depth to my Aurore campaign, from "Legion to me" to the idea of stands like Cameron.

 

[autochthonic]

What about the opposite? How much sci-fi has been written with Traveller in mind (apart form the official series)