Really????

[Licheking]

Well i love T5. I'm using the majority of the rules the way they are written according to how I'm interpreting them. I have made one or two changes but that is to better reflect my groups style of play and doesn't really affect the core concepts as i see them of the rules.

So yes I'm playing a T5 game and have been for a few weeks now.

I'm not saying there aren't mistakes but i have yet to find an rpg rule book, in fact any book, without any at all and i have more than 40 systems on my shelves.

Just look at D&D3rd they had a spell in there that added to a targets strength for hours and we found that every magic user in the world would have this spell and would have cast it on their friends because of its longevity. My group house ruled that the duration should in fact be minutes and played that way for a while until they released D&D3.5 at which point it turns out that that became the official ruling as well. And this is a major corporation with a lot of money invested and plenty of staff and you can still see mistakes. (Although in my conspiracy filled mind it could have all been a big marketing ploy to get people to buy the new version, but it failed on me i just used the errata sheets they released to update 3 to 3.5).

 

[pennshome723]

Well I play a Traveller game, but use many house rules and am willing to absorb some elements from the T5 tool box. As with any product it has Pros and Cons, I am just using it as another resource source and that is it. I will aid anyone that wants help in playing pure T5, or any other version they choose. They are all good in their own ways.

 

[robject]

Rob, an automatic pistol does not qualify for the Autofire rule unless the weapon is fully automatic--meaning, that you pull the trigger down and the weapon keeps firing until you release.

AutoPistols are semi-automatic and fire single shots.

OK, I sat down with the rules, and I think you are right, although the issue is muddy. I dislike the use of the term "Continuous", as it makes me think it is a rules-meaningfully separate category from "Automatic".

 

[rancke]

It's spelled out. One is for hordes of NPCs. The other, more detailed method is for PCs.

So not optional except in the overly broad sense that all rules are optional?



Hans

 

[esampson]

"Automatic" itself is a muddy concept. It is very possible to view a semi-automatic as an "automatic" because when in use the semi-automatic's trigger may not be pulling back the hammer (it is extremely common that the first trigger pull will cock a de-cocked hammer but often after the first shot the hammer is automatically cocked by the recoil) which means that all a trigger pull does is release the hammer. When viewed that way a semi-automatic weapon functions very similarly to a continuously firing weapon, the major differences being how the trigger reacts with the hammer arrest (i.e. the trigger must be released so that the hammer can fall again) and a design that makes sure the hammer doesn't fall until the next bullet is fully chambered.

A lot of times people who need to be clear will refer to either "semi-automatic" or "fully automatic" rather than simply "automatic" as both weapons can be viewed as automatic (despite the "semi-" and "fully" appellations).

 

[robject]

Agreed, but the context does seem to favor automatic != single pull. A bit of text clarification would solve that problem.

 

[atpollard]

And given the speed with which a semi-automatic can be fired by rapidly squeezing the trigger, compared to say a full-automatic 3 round burst ... the distinction becomes almost meaningless.
For a semi-auto, the ROF is limited by the trigger finger, but the mechanics of a Glock 18 can fire more than 20 rounds a second and a semi-auto is typically capable of up to 3 shots per second ... that's 180 rounds per minute!

Heck, even a revolver in the right hands:

Jerry Miculek is renowned as one of the fastest revolver shooters in the world, emptying a five-shot revolver in 0.57 seconds in a group the size of a playing card.

Fire six shots (each) from 10 different .38 caliber revolvers in 17.12 seconds.

So 60 shots from 10 revolvers in 17 seconds ... and how long is a combat round?

 

[Frindur]

I personal think the T5 rulesystem fails already bevor it even comes to playing.
At last for me its the first rulesystem under the vew dozen I have where I even failed to create a character because the needed ruels are not writen down clear enough and are spread over the complet book if not complet missing or broken!
(It starts with the Pre Career Education as it is unclear to me if this already add years to the 18 years a Character starts with then it go over to the Roll and Risk Rewards as it is left unclear in the texts I read how this works if there 4 different statts are given, then go over to having 8 slots in 1D rolls without having changing Mods for the roll and so on)

 

[Supplement Four]

So not optional except in the overly broad sense that all rules are optional?

Correct. It's a rule in the game, not that opitional.

"Automatic" itself is a muddy concept. It is very possible to view a semi-automatic as an "automatic" because when in use the semi-automatic's trigger may not be pulling back the hammer...

Most people agree that, when describing an automatic pistol, a semi-automatic pistol is what is really being described, even though fully automatic machine pistols exist.





As far as T5 rules go, page 244 describes a "Pistol" as being a semi-automatic handgun. That means it is capable of single shots (one shot fire per pull of the trigger).

Page 256, under Weapon Control Operation, it shows the three settings for weapons created with GunMaker: Single, Burst, and Full. "Continuous" is another term for "Full", as described there.

And given the speed with which a semi-automatic can be fired by rapidly squeezing the trigger, compared to say a full-automatic 3 round burst ... the distinction becomes almost meaningless.

I agree. Which is why I think the T5 rule is wonky that only allows characters with Single Shot weapons to fire or move, but not both, in the same combat round.

Burst or Full auto is required to both move and fire in the same round given the rules.

 

[Nerhesi]

Ugh - I give up. I really really really tried - and I'm a veteran of Starfleet battles with pretty much every supplement (not just Tournament Cruiser rules) so I'm no stranger to a million rules and complex rules either.

Despite that experience, my group and I of 6 gamers (with over 20 years of gaming and GMing experience each, in everything from D&D to Ars Magica to Starfleet battles, to world of darkness, to shadowrun, to battletech, to hell-you-name it), have decided to stick to Mongoose. We tried for a good week, meeting up on 3 seperate occasions in addition to studying seperately. No go.

I am trying not radiate the anger that is warranted when you consider the product quality (forget editing, the simple functionality and "fun" of the rules) and the nearly $300,000 dollars raised for this project. It really, really makes you think about the time, the clarity of vision, and the intent put into the development effort.

I'm just... very very disappointed. Who knows, maybe the entire book will be overhauled (ruleset, makers, everything) over the next year or so - but until then..

 

[aramis]

And on that note, I'm closing the thread...

It's come full circle, and of late, generated some 7 points of infractions.