Really Big Shotgun

[Todg]

Can anyone confirm that there was a cannister load for the German made Armbrust LAW? I do know that there was a cannister loading for the US made 90mm recoilless rifle. It would seem that a large caliber 'shotgun' could be awfully nasty in the right circumstances - particularly one without recoil that can be fired from inside a building (like the standard Armbrust).

 

[Vargr Breath]

Hi
The M-79 had a flechette round & a shotgun round, would that be big enought ?
http://www.diddybop.demon.co.uk/blooper.htm

VB

 

[Todg]

No. Those are tiny. The shotgun (buckshot load) for the 40mm GL was a subcaliber device about the same size as a 12 gauge shotgun. The same for the flechette load, which contained 40 fleshettes, and at fairly low velocity. (This round is not to be confused with the canister load for the Mk-19 grenade laucher. That round cannot be fired in the M-79 or M-203)

The XM590E1 antipersonnel round, by contrast, fired 2400 flechettes at 1250 fps. The payload was almost 4 pounds of flechettes!

Supposedly, there exists a version of the 67mm Armbrust which replaces the HEAT warhead with eithera couple thousand flechettes or about 3 pounds of square shot (depending on the source).

 

[Straybow]

The M-79 shotshell data says 27 "00" pellets, which is triple the 12 gauge load IIRC.

 

[kaladorn]

The M203 cannister shell I read about seemed significantly more deadly than a single 12 guage and seemed to cover a much larger pattern. Of course, I don't have the reference anywhere anymore...

I think the Carl Gustav has some for of anti-personel round that is quite dangerous. I'll have to ask my friend who works for the manufacturer.

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by Straybow:
The M-79 shotshell data says 27 "00" pellets, which is triple the 12 gauge load IIRC.

Almost.

The M576 has 27 'OO' pellets in three rows of seven. Older low base 2 3/4" 'OO' buckshot had 6 pellets, however, most modern high base 12 gauge 'OO' buck has 12 pellets.

However, the M576 buckshot load is not a bore riding load. The 40mm shell has a smaller cup that contains the shot (around 25-30mm). In a conventional shotgun, the prellets are pushed the full length of the barrel and can achieve a respectable velocity. In the M576, the shot is fired straight from the case.

I think I still have a round of M576. I'll post photos later.

 

[bairdec]

Well, the 152mm gun for the M551 Sheridan tanks had a canister shell.... Does that count?

 

[Todg]

Certainly, only it's not man portable. I was wondering if there was something big and man protable, lile the old 90 RCL with canister load.

 

[tucker2]

Tod, of all the folks here, you would seem to be the person to extrapolate such a device for the Armbrust or the 90mm Recoiless. You tell us fella, how's it work for CT/MT/T20?

I kinda thought the ol' flechette ammo type covered this in MT, but I am very likely mistaken.

 

[Todg]

The biggest flechette weapon I can think of is either the RAM grenade or LAG (a basically useless POS AFAICT).

I will look at FF&S and see what it says about a big, disposable silent shotgun.

 

[Vargr Breath]

Hi
How about the good old M18A1- Claymore?
700 steel pellets,60 degree arc,

VB

 

[tucker2]

Originally posted by Corejob:
The biggest flechette weapon I can think of is either the RAM grenade or LAG (a basically useless POS AFAICT).

I will look at FF&S and see what it says about a big, disposable silent shotgun.

I dunno, flech was an ammo type for almost any FA gun listed after a certain TL, it has a big-ass danger space and low damage charecteristically. I'm drawing this from MT, so missing it is very possible considering the massive errata and poor editing/layout of the books.

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by Vargr Breath:
Hi
How about the good old M18A1- Claymore?
700 steel pellets,60 degree arc,

Me, I love claymores, but they require the user be protected from the backblast. Not exactly analagous to the big shotgun.

Right now, what I am working on is something like an armbrust, or maybe Karl Gustav or SMAW. A portable, recoilless infantry weapon that cna be employed by one man. It should have an APERs round (beehive flechette or possibly shot) for close in, a bunker buster round, and something that will blow a goot meter sized hole in reinforced concrete and similar material.

Something that will fill in until the PGMP or FGMP is available. An advanced version of the M141 SMAW-D with more of a multi role capability.

Just musing.

 

[Todg]

As promised, some photos of a M-576 canister load for the M-79 and M-203 40mm grenage launchers:

M576 shown with 12 gauge 00 buckshot for comparison. Note that the shot carrier in the 40mm round is not the full diameter. The 27 00 buck pellets are carried in a plastic sabot.

Here the shot cup is clearly visible. The sabott is launched and aerodynamic forces slow down the sabot, separating it from the shot.

Yes, this is an unfired round.