Gauss weapon speculations

[Carlobrand]

During one of the other posts, someone brought up the thought of gauss weapons getting improved with increasing technology. I thought about that a bit, so I started looking at the existing gauss weapons. They start at TL10 with the VRF gauss gun, a 2-ton rapid-fire beastie with a nasty punch best fired from a turret, whose chief advantage over its nearest equivalent - a 35mm 8-barrel hypervelocity autocannon - is that the rounds are very, very, very tiny, so not as big a problem with meeting the ammo requirement. It's two tech levels later before they manage to shrink the tech down to something man-portable: the TL12 3.5 kg 70 cm length gauss rifle. Interestingly, they both fire that 4mm round and the weight per cartridge is identical, 10 grams.

At this point we can begin extrapolating, imagining a TL12 VRF gauss gun of around the weight of a heavy machine gun, but I get the feel that the barrel length would be impractically long to get the velocity and punch equivalent to the TL10 model so maybe not useful except as a vehicle-mounted weapon. It's also possible to imagine a bit more punch for the gauss rifle by imagining a longer rifle - M16 ran to about a meter and the AK47 ran to about 87 cm - but I don't think the little bit of extra punch is worth adding a heavier variant of the gauss rifle to the armory, and the original already has significant recoil.

At TL13, they come up with a pistol-sized gauss weapon, a 10 cm (?) gauss pistol, weaker than the rifle but quite respectable compared to other slug-throwing pistols. I think they're using that same 4mm 4 gram round, but the cartridge is a bit bigger, not sure why. I'm not confident of the length, it's out of MegaTraveller. 9mm Magnum has the same length, but the Smith and Wesson Model 27 that it's modeled on was longer than that, a bit over 6" at the smallest with barrel options that ran quite a bit longer. Striker has the gauss pistol as a single-shot weapon, but MegaTrav gives it an option to fire single-shot or 4-shot bursts, so essentially a machine pistol - which is another reason I think it should be a bit longer. Possibly the same refinement could be applied to a more powerful gauss rifle but I don't think it'd be enough to offset the improvement in armor at this TL so maybe it's a dead end technology-wise. Maybe a lighter gauss rifle to save weight? We could maybe imagine a TL13 VRF gauss gun about the size of a .50-cal machine gun, with a more reasonable barrel length, but it still chews through ammo so I'm not sure what you'd do about that.

There being no gauss weapons added after TL13, I don't have anything from which to extrapolate further. As I said, the significant armor advancement at TL13 may have rendered further research into gauss weapon improvements moot.

 

[McPerth]

At this point we can begin extrapolating, imagining a TL12 VRF gauss gun of around the weight of a heavy machine gun, but I get the feel that the barrel length would be impractically long to get the velocity and punch equivalent to the TL10 model so maybe not useful except as a vehicle-mounted weapon.

I guess the HMG version of the VRF GG main problem would be the power needed to propell the bullets. In teh GR it is said to be in the magazin itself, but wit hthe enourmous ammo load of a VRF GG (as otherwise you'd have to change it too often), the power needs would be greater, and it would better be used from a vehicle. Nonetheless, MT has it as support weapon, but takes a full minute to set up.

It's also possible to imagine a bit more punch for the gauss rifle by imagining a longer rifle - M16 ran to about a meter and the AK47 ran to about 87 cm -

See that neither of them is bullpup configuration, with would allow them to have the same punch while being somewhat shorter

 

[chipla]

I tend to imagine the gauss rifle as a bullpup - like an L85 with the chunky stock (where the spring is and where the bolt goes to when cycling in the real rifle) containing the batteries/power (since there's no bolt/firing pin in gauss rifles afaik) - this gives a fairly long barrel length (for the acceleration) in a smaller package. They might still reach nearly a metre in length (though I'd argue that a long rifle would be inimical to a mechanised military - even in the far future) for the acceleration.

The pistol I imagine as a slightly heavier Mauser/Luger cross much like this image I stole from google of the luger from Wolfenstein (though obviously without the luger action and trimmed down a lot to make it less greebly):

The front part would contain the battery/power supply and likely an in inbuilt method for hooking the batteries up to a laser/light/smartlink/etc since if you got the power you might as well use it.


In regards to technological improvements at higher tech levels I expect them to come in two areas - accelerator efficiency and ammunition. As the tech levels increase the ability of designers to accelerate the rounds with the same amount of power. This can be seen by the introduction of the pistol in TL13 - somewhere between TL12 and TL13 manufacturers were able to create a magnetic accelerator that allowed a lethal round to be launched from a pistol sized weapon - A TL14 gauss rifle might be half the size/weight of a TL12 one with the same or greater penetrating power. In regards to ammunition while there is not much you an do with a 4mm needle I expect people to try all sorts of things to make the needle fly faster, penetrate better, have tracers, explode, travel subsonic to increase noise suppression, etc, etc. I also expect in areas outside of the 3I we'd get some more weird and wacky sizes/calibres of ammunition - the 3I prizes stability and the game designers prize not having to make a million equipment tables so all gauss weapons in the 3I use 4mm. Outside of the 3I (and probably particularly in the Solmani-Sphere) there's probably a million and one wacky rounds and sizes, some of which were made for one gun that was only moderately commercially successful.

 

[Condottiere]

We've tried bullpups.

I'd say it depends on the willingness for increased maintenance.

 

[whulorigan]

Challenge Magazine had a write-up of a Gauss LMG and an LRF Gauss Gun that was essentially an HMG. The latter required Battle Dress to be carried Man Portable, or could be used with a grav-recoil harness. They were TL13/14.

 

[whulorigan]

On a side tangent, Gauss weapons would be excellent military/paramilitary replacements for the snub/Accel weapons at higher tech level, as you ought to be able to build them with adjustable barrel acceleration via a selector switch. You go from low to high recoil mode with a flip of a switch and possibly an ammo/magazine swap. Ideal for Marine ships troops.

 

[Condottiere]

We have shuriken guns.

The two obvious issues are, ten millimetre slug and no recoil.

 

[kilemall]

Higher tech kinetic slugs, I suggest grav propelled rounds, GPR. Avoids all that icky mag field mess.

Just came up with that the other day in the other thread, the TL13+ weapons tree does seem a bit sparse.

 

[McPerth]

On a side tangent, Gauss weapons would be excellent military/paramilitary replacements for the snub/Accel weapons at higher tech level, as you ought to be able to build them with adjustable barrel acceleration via a selector switch. You go from low to high recoil mode with a flip of a switch and possibly an ammo/magazine swap. Ideal for Marine ships troops.

I don't think so...

In both cases (snub and acceleration weapons) the bullet is released at low speed, but then accelerates and reaches the target at higher speed. On a Gauss weapon, if it is shot at low speed, it will reach the target at the same speed (at most).

Also, in the case of snub pistlos, their main damaging feature is HE/HEAP effect (or tranquilizer, if you don't want to be letal), something gauss wepons, being so small bullets, cannot do.

 

[Rupert]

We've tried bullpups.

I'd say it depends on the willingness for increased maintenance.

With a gauss rifle they could avoid some of the annoying features they tend to have with conventional rifles by putting the battery further forward to give better balance. However, that means the battery will need to be swapped separately from the ammo, which slows reloads. OTOH, according to Classic Traveller, a gauss rifle magazine (ammo+battery) is quite light, so having it in the stock might not be too bad.

Higher tech kinetic slugs, I suggest grav propelled rounds, GPR. Avoids all that icky mag field mess.

And replaces it with nice, clean grav tech. Best of all, we have no idea what a gravitic bullet accelerator would look like, so it looks like whatever the Referee or game designer thinks is coolest.

 

[Rupert]

In both cases (snub and acceleration weapons) the bulles is released at low speed, but then accelerates and reaches the target at higher speed. On a Gauss weapon, if it is shot at low speed, it will reach the target at the same speed (at most).

According to Book 4, snub pistol rounds do not accelerate - they are low velocity all the way (100-150 m/s), which is why they rely on their payload for effect. The bullets will be visible in flight in good light, and dodgeable at range (which would be why they have a -8 to hit at medium range, and no attack past that).

 

[Condottiere]

Gauss shotgun, with an adjustable power switch.

Big slug.

Slow, steady acceleration.

 

[mike wightman]

Or a magazine such as the FN P90 uses, available for an AR15 upper and a pistol version the Kaltec something or other.

 

[whulorigan]

According to Book 4, snub pistol rounds do not accelerate - they are low velocity all the way (100-150 m/s), which is why they rely on their payload for effect. The bullets will be visible in flight in good light, and dodgeable at range (which would be why they have a -8 to hit at medium range, and no attack past that).

Correct. Although some of the more modern materials (including Agent of the Imperium) have suggested that higher tech Snubs (i.e. TL13+) are in fact accelerator Snubs.

 

[McPerth]

According to Book 4, snub pistol rounds do not accelerate - they are low velocity all the way (100-150 m/s), which is why they rely on their payload for effect.

And this is the reason a low acceperation gauss weapon would not be effective

 

[Condottiere]

Depends on what effect you want.

Accelerator slugs have a minimum stand off range.

I'll bet that using a hand slingshot has about as much impact as a snub round.

 

[kilemall]

And this is the reason a low acceperation gauss weapon would not be effective

I could see a drug/poison version working. Would need sight/calculator that precisely calibrates speed so just enough to penetrate armor but still stop to deliver whatever substance to the bloodstream.

 

[whulorigan]

And this is the reason a low acceperation gauss weapon would not be effective

But ammo could potentially be special designed for that effect. You may have to swap agazines or have a dual feed, but it is possible.

 

[Rupert]

Or a magazine such as the FN P90 uses, available for an AR15 upper and a pistol version the Kaltec something or other.

Putting the magazine over the barrel raises the sight line compared to the barrel, which isn't ideal. On the other hand, a lower barrel makes for less muzzle jump, and Book 4 gives gauss rifles (and ACRs) as being only 750mm long, which supports them using bullpup layouts.

 

[mike wightman]

The combination of accelerator rifle rounds with snub warheads was such a no-brainer I bet nearly everyone did it.

There was even a GDW JTAS article about them, which became a standard weapon system by MT.

Assault Rocket Launcher (ARL): TL10 Related to the advanced combat rifle (ACR), the assault rocket launcher’s barrel is merely a launch tube for the ammunition. Like the ACR, the ARL is gyrostabilized when the trigger is pulled.
The ARL fires 10mm solid fuel rocket slugs. Each slug has four pinhole-sized nozzles angled to imitate rifling and “burns”
for 5 meters before momentum takes over. The use of rocket slugs provides many advantages. For example, no cartridge
ejection system is needed, so the weapon can be sealed from dirt. The action and barrel do not have to withstand high pressures The weapon’s chief disadvantage is its high signature.
The ARL can be fired in both automatic mode and semiautomatic mode, with each automatic burst consisting of four rounds.

I had a pistol version too.