Power as a commodity

[jatay3]

One way to understand politics is to think of political power as a commodity. It can be bought, sold, traded, given, received, or stolen.
In this the gravity model of Far-trader serves well.
Each large state has it's center and it's "penumbra"-the area in which it's political influence is no longer obviously dominate, but remains to varying degrees. The penumbras of different large states can of course overlap. The Frontier Wars for instance can be seen as the result of an overlap between the Imperium and the Consulate-with the various pocket empires and independant worlds attempting to scrape together some measure of independance from the stalemate.
However competition for power differs from competition for other commodities in one way. Politics is more of a zero-sum game. The interest to a business concern in destroying it's rivals is great, but it can often increase it's wealth by increasing the ammount of wealth to be had(for instance discovering a new planet full of hidden mineral resources, no one has noticed before). While this can sometimes be done in politics(by increasing the efficiency of the organization for instance)often one political center can only expand at the expense of another.

 

[aramis]

Realistically, under this model, the sector dukes cast brighter penumbras than the far more remote emperor outside of Core.

 

[jatay3]

Aramis
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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 09:36 PMApril 24, 2006 09:36 PM Profile for Aramis Author's Homepage Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Realistically, under this model, the sector dukes cast brighter penumbras than the far more remote emperor outside of Core.

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interesting thought

 

[selunatic2397]

With power as a commodity, would favors owed to someone else be considered a viable trade good?

For instance; suppose that the crew of the seeker Motherlode has discovered a large deposite of radium.

Could they then swap the rights to their claim to a politician. Who used his pull to get reduced tariffs/fees/taxes for them or even to someone else they delegate as a recipient?

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

What if one were to govern by "Hydraulic Despotism"? The name taken from the old irrigation days, where the Lord of the Manor controlled the fate of the peasant by control of the water supply.

A grim prospect, but the (a bad one) Emperor could use this to enforce power. In the case of Imperium, the controlled commodity would be interstellar trade... threat of isolation would be a powerful factor.

 

[jatay3]

Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan
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Icon 1 posted April 24, 2006 11:52 PMApril 24, 2006 11:52 PM Profile for Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan Author's Homepage Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote What if one were to govern by "Hydraulic Despotism"? The name taken from the old irrigation days, where the Lord of the Manor controlled the fate of the peasant by control of the water supply.

A grim prospect, but the (a bad one) Emperor could use this to enforce power. In the case of Imperium, the controlled commodity would be interstellar trade... threat of isolation would be a powerful factor.

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Actually all Emperors use it to enforce power-bad or good. Remember, "Imperial Interdicts"? Though the interdict is not as great a threat because a substantial number of worlds can survive if not prosper on their own. To be fair this is in a way simply another extension of the state's power-all states use intimidation sometimes. That does not mean that all states are diabolical tyrannies but that the element of fear is part of government to a greater or lesser degree.
The term "hydraulic despotisms" is usually a reference to large lowland empires dependant on large river valleys, like the Egyptians, the Mesopatamians and Chinese. Other states, like South American Indian Empires had similar styles. They had the advantages of being able to organise resources to a great degree but a tendancy toward brittleness and stagnation.
The Ziru Saku seems in many ways to be a classic "hydraulic despotism" and perhaps fits the good Baron Saarthuran's description of a "bad Imperium" quite well. Of course that is not all it is, any more then that is what the Third Imperium is. But the Ziru Saku comes far closer.

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan:
What if one were to govern by "Hydraulic Despotism"? The name taken from the old irrigation days, where the Lord of the Manor controlled the fate of the peasant by control of the water supply.

Yes, of course. Try to imagine a single subsector. Now let's pretend that the subsector has nearly 20 inhabited star systems. But there are ONLY 3 worlds that serve as the breadbasket agricultural worlds, responsible for feeding and exporting food to the the majority of the subsector population.

If a single warlord captured ALL THREE breadbasket planets.....

 

[jatay3]

Originally posted by selunatic2397:
With power as a commodity, would favors owed to someone else be considered a viable trade good?

For instance; suppose that the crew of the seeker Motherlode has discovered a large deposite of radium.

Could they then swap the rights to their claim to a politician. Who used his pull to get reduced tariffs/fees/taxes for them or even to someone else they delegate as a recipient?

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That is an interesting thought. Though perhaps favors owed might be considered a "bill of exchange"

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Aramis:
Realistically, under this model, the sector dukes cast brighter penumbras than the far more remote emperor outside of Core.

I would have to agree.

However I would also say that for exerting direct authority over Imperial Citizens, it would be the subsector dukes who cast a yet brighter penumbra over their own fief.

In CT canon, sector dukes are merely first among equals. When we get to GURPS:Nobles, it heads off in the direction of making the sector duke the lord of the subsector dukes*, but even so, the subsector dukes are going to be the ones that really run the most-attended courts, make the decisions regarding the subsector navy, and directly command their local nobles. They are also far easier to approach than the sector duke. Can you imagine trying to get an appointment with the sector duke unless you were of interest or were important? Forget it. The sector duke's daily schdule is plotted out years in advance and is jam-packed with alternates seeking room in any hole that develops.

If a subsector duke's schedule would make the President of the US look like backwater hick that doesn't receive much attention, then the sector duke is going to be that much further up the scale as the focus of the sector's attention. While they have greater authority, they are in fact more remote. (And yes, this does show that the Emperor is even more remote exactly as you stated.)

It would be easier to attend and influence your subsector court than it would be to do the same at the sector level, although every noble family of consequence would undoubtedly maintain a presence in both courts to watch our for their interests.

However, while the sector dukes and Emperor are, technically speaking, remote and isolated, just let an underling try to step out of line too far and they'll find out how remote their superior's power really is when that superior's attention is turned to the correct location in Charted Space.

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* I run MTU in this manner.

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As for power itself as a commodity, I'm not sure. Perhaps as an underground commodity, but then, that has always existed.

The trading of wealth for power and vice-versa is as old as time, it's called bribery and abuse of power. These are generally viewed as criminal acts in the Imperial Governement in MTU, and so such activities are kept behind closed doors where the peons can't observe.

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by selunatic2397:
With power as a commodity, would favors owed to someone else be considered a viable trade good?

For instance; suppose that the crew of the seeker Motherlode has discovered a large deposite of radium.

Could they then swap the rights to their claim to a politician. Who used his pull to get reduced tariffs/fees/taxes for them or even to someone else they delegate as a recipient?

Isn't that just a bribe?

(Not that that's a bad thing!

)

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
Isn't that just a bribe?

Yes.

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
(Not that that's a bad thing!

)

It depends on who you are talking to.

The ones placing and accepting the bribe think its great.

The ones who get stepped on as a result of the bribe think it's a criminal influence of the target and a criminal abuse of power by the target.

 

[aramis]

RoS:

I've always run Sector Dukes as Lord of the Subsector Dukes.

I agree entirely about Subsector dukes penumbras being even brighter than the sector dukes, and thus far brighter still than the Emperor and Archdukes.

I'm thinking of a way of determining for MTU rank of Imperial Noble based upon UWP entries.

Port Points: A=3, B=2, C=1, D/E=0 X=spl
Pop Points: A=4 9=3 7-8=2 5-6=2 2-4=0 0-1=-2
TL Points: 0-5=-1 6-8=0 9-A=1 B-D=2 E-F=3 G+=4
8+ Duke
6-7 Marquis
5-6 Count
2-4 Baron
(-1)-1 Knight.

X Ports get assigned to highest 1Jx noble in reach. (x by TL of noble, not world.)

 

[jatay3]

Originally posted by RainOfSteel:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Aramis:
Realistically, under this model, the sector dukes cast brighter penumbras than the far more remote emperor outside of Core.

I would have to agree.

However I would also say that for exerting direct authority over Imperial Citizens, it would be the subsector dukes who cast a yet brighter penumbra over their own fief.

In CT canon, sector dukes are merely first among equals. When we get to GURPS:Nobles, it heads off in the direction of making the sector duke the lord of the subsector dukes*, but even so, the subsector dukes are going to be the ones that really run the most-attended courts, make the decisions regarding the subsector navy, and directly command their local nobles. They are also far easier to approach than the sector duke. Can you imagine trying to get an appointment with the sector duke unless you were of interest or were important? Forget it. The sector duke's daily schdule is plotted out years in advance and is jam-packed with alternates seeking room in any hole that develops.

If a subsector duke's schedule would make the President of the US look like backwater hick that doesn't receive much attention, then the sector duke is going to be that much further up the scale as the focus of the sector's attention. While they have greater authority, they are in fact more remote. (And yes, this does show that the Emperor is even more remote exactly as you stated.)

It would be easier to attend and influence your subsector court than it would be to do the same at the sector level, although every noble family of consequence would undoubtedly maintain a presence in both courts to watch our for their interests.

However, while the sector dukes and Emperor are, technically speaking, remote and isolated, just let an underling try to step out of line too far and they'll find out how remote their superior's power really is when that superior's attention is turned to the correct location in Charted Space.

---------------------

* I run MTU in this manner.

---------------------

As for power itself as a commodity, I'm not sure. Perhaps as an underground commodity, but then, that has always existed.

The trading of wealth for power and vice-versa is as old as time, it's called bribery and abuse of power. These are generally viewed as criminal acts in the Imperial Governement in MTU, and so such activities are kept behind closed doors where the peons can't observe. </font>[/QUOTE]___________________________________
Any scarce good or service can be considered a commodity if it is tradable. The legal and moral implacations are not the issue.

Also trading between governments power in one area for another is legal.

And jockeying for government contracts is as well.