Post here if you got your T5 book.

[savage]

Jedi?

Ah...a Quixotic Jedi, then?

I never really felt game developers are equivalent to Jedi. I think of our forces in the middle east, police and firemen as heroes. Ahhh, I recall a comparison article in one of the Challenge or other mags. where the GDW team produced themselves as characters. A funny read if you knew any of them. Ok now I'll chuckle, :file_21: Rebel Scoundrel perhaps.

Isn't the TNE task system a copy of the MT task system, with a swap of dice from d6s to d10s?

More like what if we use more dice. It's all in the curve. I was never a big MT fan but many people rightfully are. I liked TNE but ended up ref'ing T20.

are some ancient threads around here in the forum somewhere--interviews that explain a lot of what went on back then. It's been a while since I read them.

Here's one of those threads: 10 Questions To Ask Joe Fugate, from way back in 2001. IIRC, there are others. One with Loren. I think one or two with Marc....it's been so long, my memory is fuzzy.

As for the task systems, I am under the impression that, when TNE came out, GDW attempted to consolidate all their games to the same system. Cadillacs and Dinosaurs used the same system, and I think there were plans to move Twilight 2000 to that system. Did they actually do that? I never played that game. Traveller 2300 used a version of the same system.

...I recall the 10 questions. This probably is an annual discussion. Not sure if I thew in my nickel then but but i was happy to be a fringe guy. I'd left the Normal IL by 89. GDW melted in 91 right? A lot of criticism was in the air about 2300 and 2000 not being compatible. Maybe others can weigh in? People assumed that it was the progression of the timeline. I don't recall plans to move T2k or other system. The success of Gurps made it popular. I ref'd, tested and wrote for T2k but not when 2.2 came out. I don't think i even own it. :file_21: If i do I never opened it. Now I do recall a discussion of having a couple game systems but too late.

Pendragonman hit the nail. We need the new people too

calm down,
:smirk:
and discuss
Traveller.​

 

[whartung]

TNE, Dark Conspiracy, and T2K:2.2 are all GDWs "house system". T2K:2.0 was the first iteration of it. But TNE was the first cut of the "official" house system, and went to a D20 from D10 that T2K:2.0 had, which is why there's a T2K:2.2, basically an updated 2.0 with the D20 system (Not T20's D20, GDWs D20...it wasn't confusing then... )

GDW got killed by the double whammy of CCGs hitting (and boy, did they) combined with the publication of a second book based on the Gulf War. Dave's story about how Brilliant Lances lost out Best Board Game to the then new Magic: The Gathering is foretelling.

The first Gulf War book did extraordinarily well, but the second one was much more lackluster. The problem was that with games, when you sell the game to the store, they're stuck with it, whether it sells of not. With books, they can return them.

So GDW got hit with a lot of returns for the second book, and I guess that was the last straw.

Too bad, I think a lot of the properties still had a lot of life in them (can't speak to DC), but they just couldn't absorb the lull with the hit from the book.

 

[Kaelic]

See, that is the thing. Almost any thread of this kind is going to morph toward the opinions of those that think we all wasted our time/money waiting on Marc to deliver T5, and thus they feel free to attack his business practices.

I don't really see what's wrong with criticising someone's business practice.

 

[Uriel]

I don't really see what's wrong with criticising someone's business practice.

Doing so in a thread about tracking sightings of T5 in the wild might be seen as threadcrapping though since its pretty tangential to the point of the thread.

 

[Dragoner]

I don't really see what's wrong with criticising someone's business practice.

Who wants to see random people whinge?

 

[Cryton]

I don't really see what's wrong with criticising someone's business practice.

So long as you do it in such a way as not to violate the board rules.

1) No personal attacks.
You may attack ideas, subjects, or documentation. However you will not get personal at all.

The rest can be found at:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/faq.php?faq=cotirules#faq_therules

 

[savage]

house rules

TNE, Dark Conspiracy, and T2K:2.2 are all GDWs "house system". T2K:2.0 was the first iteration of it. But TNE was the first cut of the "official" house system, and went to a D20 from D10 that T2K:2.0 had, which is why there's a T2K:2.2, basically an updated 2.0 with the D20 system (Not T20's D20, GDWs D20...it wasn't confusing then... )

GDW got killed by the double whammy of CCGs hitting (and boy, did they) combined with the publication of a second book based on the Gulf War. Dave's story about how Brilliant Lances lost out Best Board Game to the then new Magic: The Gathering is foretelling.

Thanks for the reminder. The gulf war book was well timed. I recall the excitement. I'd forgotten the details behind house rules. I do recall they we're trying to get down to a couple version. I haven't opened any of those books (only TNE and T20) in 15+ years at least.

 

[SpaceBadger]

I don't really see what's wrong with criticising someone's business practice.

Coming onto a forum that Marc Miller provides for discussion of Traveller and related subjects, to criticize Marc Miller's business practices, seems to me pretty damn rude.

 

[pendragonman]

I don't really see what's wrong with criticising someone's business practice.

Considering that said commentary comes in a thread dedicated to/by those that have invested both time and money into T5, and said commentary comes from someone who has not done either, seems to be like coming in and disrespecting something just to have something to be disrespectful about.

As I see it if you have put money into T5, and now are sorry about it due to the wait, do what you need to do to get a refund. If you have not put in any money, you have no "skin in the game", and are just whinging to whinge.

 

[savage]

T5 backers...so true but...

Considering that said commentary comes in a thread dedicated to/by those that have invested both time and money into T5, and said commentary comes from someone who has not done either, seems to be like coming in and disrespecting something just to have something to be disrespectful about.

As I see it if you have put money into T5, and now are sorry about it due to the wait, do what you need to do to get a refund. If you have not put in any money, you have no "skin in the game", and are just whinging to whinge.

pendragonman, has a great point, as always! And in fact, we do not have all of reasons for the delays in the product rollout! Marc did not go into detail or history. We jokingly call it the "fabled 5th edition" because it was born in debate with a few start/stops. I think we're about to hit a new "golden age" for this game. It is very exciting.
Of course, one's first thought is "why does anyone have an interest in complaining if they do not have $$ on the line." There are really only two good reasons; 1. they work or support a competitive product. 2. bad attitude.
As Cryton points out this board has some great rules that protect everyone. They we're created over a 11 year period and many rough threads. We members, hope all new comers join the conversations in a constructive fashion, play whichever version you like, value the sentiments of others, and stick around.

 

[Hyphen]

GDW got killed by the double whammy of CCGs hitting (and boy, did they) combined with the publication of a second book based on the Gulf War.
[snip]
With books, they can return them.

Good summary. Loren (or Dave?) said they should never have listened to the people who said they should do a second book. All the other mainstream publishers, who had been blind-sided by the success of the Desert Shield book, wrote their own (probably cheaper, or "free" inserts in newspapers) for Desert Storm. GDW probsbly should have printed one-quarter of the volume of the first book, but as we all know, hindsight's a wonderful thing.

The one thing you missed was the impact of the Dangerous Journeys lawsuit. They didn't end up losing any money on it, but lost an enormous amount of development time - rather than designing new products, they were answering depositions.

So it was really a triple whammy.

 

[pendragonman]

Good summary. Loren (or Dave?) said they should never have listened to the people who said they should do a second book. All the other mainstream publishers, who had been blind-sided by the success of the Desert Shield book, wrote their own (probably cheaper, or "free" inserts in newspapers) for Desert Storm. GDW probsbly should have printed one-quarter of the volume of the first book, but as we all know, hindsight's a wonderful thing.

The one thing you missed was the impact of the Dangerous Journeys lawsuit. They didn't end up losing any money on it, but lost an enormous amount of development time - rather than designing new products, they were answering depositions.

So it was really a triple whammy.

I always wondered about the truth of the matter. Most people I gamed with IRL pointed to overproduction of TNE materials.

 

[Supplement Four]

TNE was such a drastic change from what Traveller had been before that many fans refused to play it. I understand that TNE was still a hit for GDW, but I know many, many fans--those I've encountered over the years--didn't like the change in mechanics or the change in setting (or both).

 

[whartung]

Most people I gamed with IRL pointed to overproduction of TNE materials.

That's another way of saying "CCGs beat the crap out of us".

The uptake and vast VAST amounts of money pouring in to MtG and CCGs were staggering. Anybody who wasn't producing a CCG, or, more bluntly, WotC, was "overproducing". CCGs were a Black Swan event that hit the conventional gaming industry at the time.

Always wondered what "Striker: the Collectible Card Game" would have looked like.

 

[Ishmael]

I just can't wait for an objective review.
I did not wish to send money for a product that I might not use, nor send money for a product, sight unseen, which has not been openly discussed as to its strengths and weaknesses.

It has been a very long wait.... a bit over 12 years since the first post about it on this board. I'm afraid that I would expect an unusually superior product given such a long development time and so many eyes play-testing and proofing it during that time.

I just want an unbiased review before I place my money down.

 

[eclipse]

Last update I saw said the last major piece (the Nobility cards) were arriving on 3/18 and shipping would start once those could be added.

 

[BytePro]

The Kickstarter was successfully funded when I checked it (first couple days, IIRC) - so I put away my wallet, since I was really more interested in just making sure he met his goal than actually having T5, myself.

Swag, heck dead tree, doesn't interest me, but its a common model for Kickstarter projects. A catch-22, I think, in that swag complicates and almost invariably will delay shipments.

As a fan, I'm just hoping Marc doesn't overdo things. Completing T5 after all these years and with the level of commitments hanging over him, was, I'm sure, a major project with quite some level of stress (though hopefully major satisfaction). On top of all that is working with production issues, order processing, inventory, sorting, packaging, labeling, and physical shipping challenges and invariably some degree of followup fulfillment hassles (hope for his sake he is using FedEx where he can - they are definitely worth the extra cost, IME).

I wish him well and hope his fans will remember that fans are supportive - he's been working on this for a good long while and deserves a little patience and some faith, I think.

 

[Dragoner]

Marc is 65 afaik, I definitely don't want him to hurt himself getting this done, and my experience of dealing with him (FFE) has been good.

 

[Jacqual]

I like dealing with Mr. Miller, I ordered some books recently off the website and I received the wrong books. Mr. Miller corrected the error very promptly and without issues. I am willing to wait for my copy of T5 and my swag that was promised from the kiskstarter and being a T5 beta tester. When it gets to me it gets to me. Mr. Miller is a man of his word in all the dealings I have had with him, the man is doing his best to make this version of Traveller his shining example of what the game can be. So I can wait and I will. It will arrive when he has everything to ship, not before he might even be losing money on the shipping costs for some place.

 

[Cryton]

I like dealing with Mr. Miller, I ordered some books recently off the website and I received the wrong books. Mr. Miller corrected the error very promptly and without issues. I am willing to wait for my copy of T5 and my swag that was promised from the kiskstarter and being a T5 beta tester. When it gets to me it gets to me. Mr. Miller is a man of his word in all the dealings I have had with him, the man is doing his best to make this version of Traveller his shining example of what the game can be. So I can wait and I will. It will arrive when he has everything to ship, not before he might even be losing money on the shipping costs for some place.

That has been my experience with him as well, and I too will more than happily wait.

It is fun however to see people act like children who see presents under the Christmas tree, and are told they have to wait to open them untill Christmas.Then there are the others, who don't see any presents for them...

All very amusing. Patience is a lost virtue in the modern world. :devil:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: