Polities of the Long Night

[GypsyComet]

Since we do not have a comprehensive UWP set for c.-1776 (and probably should not attempt to make one) the TL12 question should remain a matter of campaign need. Jump 2 is enough for broad mobility across Imperial space, only becoming a concern in a few stellar neighborhoods. Terra and Corridor come to mind, but there are also some thin spots in what would become Julian space and near the Delphi Rift on the Ley/Fornast edge.

My assumption is that higher tech is much like the Rule of Corporate Projects: if you have more than a half dozen participants and less than a hundred, the outlook for success is not good. High tech during the Long Night will occur in either lone mavericks or the largest of polities, and probably won't stick for long.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Jump 2 is enough for broad mobility across Imperial space, only becoming a concern in a few stellar neighborhoods.

And where it IS a concern ... J2+2 (unrefueled) is certainly enough to link up "most" locations ... and can be done @ TL=9 using LBB2.81 standard drives (A-D).

The thing is, most of the interstellar merchant classes tend to be optimized for "maximal ticket revenues" (passengers+cargo) over the SHORT haul ... rather than optimizing for RANGE with a "good enough revenue from tickets" (passengers+cargo) to pay the bills while dabbling in speculative goods arbitrage along the way whenever opportunity comes a'knocking.

This fundamental difference yields a "very different slice of the market" for interstellar transport services, including different "market demand thresholds" in order to remain a viable business operation over the long haul.



And then there's the J3+3 (unrefueled) option ... which can be done @ TL=A using LBB2.81 standard drives (E-H).



Getting to "faraway places" in a single jump is a convenience for most commercial traffic, rather than a necessity.
Courier services, where SPEED is the name of the game, are different, however.

 

[GypsyComet]

Getting to "faraway places" in a single jump is a convenience for most commercial traffic, rather than a necessity.
Courier services, where SPEED is the name of the game, are different, however.

It is unclear how much long range travel occurred during the Long Night, either on average or during any given century. In the last two hundred years or so, obviously the Syleans were prosecuting wars with neighbors in adjacent subsectors and occasionally visiting the Vilani, but neither of these is presented as routine travel. Were the Vilani in charge of their entire main again? I'm sure they wanted others to think so, but it is more likely that the reality was different, changed with the years, and depended on who you asked.

 

[TheDark]

It is unclear how much long range travel occurred during the Long Night, either on average or during any given century. In the last two hundred years or so, obviously the Syleans were prosecuting wars with neighbors in adjacent subsectors and occasionally visiting the Vilani, but neither of these is presented as routine travel. Were the Vilani in charge of their entire main again? I'm sure they wanted others to think so, but it is more likely that the reality was different, changed with the years, and depended on who you asked.

AFAIK there's not information on the extent of the Vilani Confederation, but they returned to Answerin (23 parsecs from Vland via J-3, 27 via J-2) "late in the Long Night"*. Humaniti mentions that Answerin chose not to join the Vilani and instead became a sovereign ally of Sylea in -28, which at least mildly implies that the visits were common enough that Answerin could have been part of the Confederation.

They almost certainly didn't control the entire 1,000+ system Vilani Main, since that would make them at least an order of magnitude larger than any of the other pocket empires and laughably larger than Sylea when they subordinated themselves to Cleon. However, I think it's reasonable to assume they had member worlds to the rimward and trailing of Vland, in the denser subsectors stretching toward Lishun and Dagudashaag. That would get their borders closer to both Answerin and the Syleans.

*I feel like Humaniti is very broad in "early" and "late." I'd need to go back and double-check, but my impression is anything before roughly -1000 can be considered early and anything after that date is late.

 

[Spinward Flow]

It is unclear how much long range travel occurred during the Long Night, either on average or during any given century.

This is where you run into problems of assumptions ... largely based on the maps we have available during the 1105 era.
You have to start thinking in "archipelago terms" that has more in common with Island Hopping™ to start getting a decent frame of reference.

If you start with the assumption that "there's lots of islands" (in this case, star systems on the map) ... BUT ... that the Vast Overwhelming Supermajority of them are NO LONGER INHABITED ... then the "distance between commercial ports/opportunities" vastly increases. At that point, you'll have vast swathes of space that effectively amount to flyover jump over territory, because "there's nothing useful there" between your point of origin and your final destination.

From the Age of Sail, this would be somewhat akin to being in an island chain ... but NONE of the islands have any fresh water sources on them, so you cannot "slake the thirst of your crew" by putting ashore there. Furthermore, the same islands are uninhabited ... so no commercial/trading opportunities, no resupply depots ... nothing but little pockets of land that you can get marooned on and die of thirst on.



In that context, where you DON'T have a starport + world market/local population ready and waiting for you after EVERY SINGLE JUMP that you make (looking at you Free/Far/Fat Trader class designs), the ... context ... of what makes operations profitable shifts. You aren't looking at an operational tempo of jump/trade, jump/trade, jump/trade, jump/trade ... ad infinitum. Instead, you could be looking at an operational tempo in which you're only able to trade every 2+ jumps (and in extreme cases could require 12+ jumps in order to reach a world market where commercial trading and resupply can even be attempted!).

When there's "lots of territory, but no one is home (there)" ... having a longer RANGE built into your commercial transport starship operations stops being a luxury and starts becoming a NECESSITY. Additionally, having a life support endurance in excess of 1-2 jumps starts becoming absolutely critical when the distance between shore support services exceeds 2+ jumps in duration. No point in undertaking a long voyage of 12+ jumps when your life support will only last for 3 jumps ... and there are no resupply options between your point of origin and your final destination.



In other words ... just because there are STARS on the map (with planetary systems around them), doesn't necessarily mean that "going there" is going to be a "profitable" move for a starship. The opportunities for "bankruptcy" on multiple fronts (financial, parts & spares, life support consumables, ordnance, etc.) start getting prohibitively high, creating "moats" of knowledge around what few trade routes can be pioneered between far flung world markets.

AFAIK there's not information on the extent of the Vilani Confederation, but they returned to Answerin (23 parsecs from Vland via J-3, 27 via J-2)

No matter how you slice things, that's more than 2 subsectors worth of space between two worlds.
That's a LONG HAUL.
For any merchant starship making that voyage, they're going to be spending MONTHS going from origin to final destination (jumping every 10 days, stopping only to wilderness refuel along the way). Whatever they're transporting had better be worth the trip ...

Fun fact ... if I modulate the routing from Vland to Answerin (using the 1105 map) and mandate wilderness refueling and avoidance of Red Zones, I get the following results:

• J2 = 2 parsec range ... 29 parsecs — 15 jumps
• J2+2 = 4 parsec range ... 21 parsecs — 14 jumps
• J3 = 3 parsec range ... 23 parsecs — 8 jumps
• J3+3 = 6 parsec range ... 21 parsecs — 8 jumps

So the J2+2 starship class would have a -1 jump per one way trip advantage relative to the J2 only starship class. Furthermore, the full 4 parsec range "isn't necessary" for every single transit between star systems ... but when it is, it makes a difference.

Here's another example of this phenomenon in action.
Karin/Five Sisters/Spinward Marches ... to ... Glisten/Glisten/Spinward Marches.
Same parameters (wilderness refueling required, avoid Red Zones):

• J1 = 1 parsec range ... 25 parsecs — 25 jumps (wilderness refueling NOT required, avoid Red Zones NOT required)
• J2 = 2 parsec range ... 17 parsecs — 9 jumps
• J2+2 = 4 parsec range ... 15 parsecs — 8 jumps
• J3 = 3 parsec range ... 15 parsecs — 5 jumps
• J3+3 = 6 parsec range ... 15 parsecs — 5 jumps

So the J2+2 starship class would have a -1 jump per one way trip advantage relative to the J2 only starship class (again).
Sure, it's a marginal advantage in these two examples ... but there are going to be circumstances in which that marginal advantage isn't quite so marginal depending on the arrangement of star systems on the map.

Perhaps the most extreme example of this that I can come up with would be Jewell/Jewell/Spinward Marches to Efate/Regina/Regina.
Same parameters (wilderness refueling required, no Red Zones):

• J2 = 2 parsec range ... 20 parsecs — 11 jumps
• J2+2 = 4 parsec range ... 6 parsecs — 3 jumps
• J3 = 3 parsec range ... 6 parsecs — 3 jumps
• J3+3 = 6 parsec range ... 6 parsecs — 2 jumps

As you can see much more clearly from this example, double jumping has some pretty distinct jump tempo advantages relative to single jumping, even across so short a span as a (mere) 6 parsecs.

Something to think about ...

 

[Condottiere]

Unless slower than light solutions are utilized, lines of communications tend to be subject to jump drive availability, modified by an industrial base that can actually manufacture new ones, or, at least, maintain and repair them.

 

[TheDark]

This is where you run into problems of assumptions ... largely based on the maps we have available during the 1105 era.
You have to start thinking in "archipelago terms" that has more in common with Island Hopping™ to start getting a decent frame of reference.

If you start with the assumption that "there's lots of islands" (in this case, star systems on the map) ... BUT ... that the Vast Overwhelming Supermajority of them are NO LONGER INHABITED ... then the "distance between commercial ports/opportunities" vastly increases. At that point, you'll have vast swathes of space that effectively amount to flyover jump over territory, because "there's nothing useful there" between your point of origin and your final destination.

From the Age of Sail, this would be somewhat akin to being in an island chain ... but NONE of the islands have any fresh water sources on them, so you cannot "slake the thirst of your crew" by putting ashore there. Furthermore, the same islands are uninhabited ... so no commercial/trading opportunities, no resupply depots ... nothing but little pockets of land that you can get marooned on and die of thirst on.



In that context, where you DON'T have a starport + world market/local population ready and waiting for you after EVERY SINGLE JUMP that you make (looking at you Free/Far/Fat Trader class designs), the ... context ... of what makes operations profitable shifts. You aren't looking at an operational tempo of jump/trade, jump/trade, jump/trade, jump/trade ... ad infinitum. Instead, you could be looking at an operational tempo in which you're only able to trade every 2+ jumps (and in extreme cases could require 12+ jumps in order to reach a world market where commercial trading and resupply can even be attempted!).

When there's "lots of territory, but no one is home (there)" ... having a longer RANGE built into your commercial transport starship operations stops being a luxury and starts becoming a NECESSITY. Additionally, having a life support endurance in excess of 1-2 jumps starts becoming absolutely critical when the distance between shore support services exceeds 2+ jumps in duration. No point in undertaking a long voyage of 12+ jumps when your life support will only last for 3 jumps ... and there are no resupply options between your point of origin and your final destination.



In other words ... just because there are STARS on the map (with planetary systems around them), doesn't necessarily mean that "going there" is going to be a "profitable" move for a starship. The opportunities for "bankruptcy" on multiple fronts (financial, parts & spares, life support consumables, ordnance, etc.) start getting prohibitively high, creating "moats" of knowledge around what few trade routes can be pioneered between far flung world markets.

No matter how you slice things, that's more than 2 subsectors worth of space between two worlds.
That's a LONG HAUL.
For any merchant starship making that voyage, they're going to be spending MONTHS going from origin to final destination (jumping every 10 days, stopping only to wilderness refuel along the way). Whatever they're transporting had better be worth the trip ...

Fun fact ... if I modulate the routing from Vland to Answerin (using the 1105 map) and mandate wilderness refueling and avoidance of Red Zones, I get the following results:

• J2 = 2 parsec range ... 29 parsecs — 15 jumps
• J2+2 = 4 parsec range ... 21 parsecs — 14 jumps
• J3 = 3 parsec range ... 23 parsecs — 8 jumps
• J3+3 = 6 parsec range ... 21 parsecs — 8 jumps

So the J2+2 starship class would have a -1 jump per one way trip advantage relative to the J2 only starship class. Furthermore, the full 4 parsec range "isn't necessary" for every single transit between star systems ... but when it is, it makes a difference.

Here's another example of this phenomenon in action.
Karin/Five Sisters/Spinward Marches ... to ... Glisten/Glisten/Spinward Marches.
Same parameters (wilderness refueling required, avoid Red Zones):

• J1 = 1 parsec range ... 25 parsecs — 25 jumps (wilderness refueling NOT required, avoid Red Zones NOT required)
• J2 = 2 parsec range ... 17 parsecs — 9 jumps
• J2+2 = 4 parsec range ... 15 parsecs — 8 jumps
• J3 = 3 parsec range ... 15 parsecs — 5 jumps
• J3+3 = 6 parsec range ... 15 parsecs — 5 jumps

So the J2+2 starship class would have a -1 jump per one way trip advantage relative to the J2 only starship class (again).
Sure, it's a marginal advantage in these two examples ... but there are going to be circumstances in which that marginal advantage isn't quite so marginal depending on the arrangement of star systems on the map.

Perhaps the most extreme example of this that I can come up with would be Jewell/Jewell/Spinward Marches to Efate/Regina/Regina.
Same parameters (wilderness refueling required, no Red Zones):

• J2 = 2 parsec range ... 20 parsecs — 11 jumps
• J2+2 = 4 parsec range ... 6 parsecs — 3 jumps
• J3 = 3 parsec range ... 6 parsecs — 3 jumps
• J3+3 = 6 parsec range ... 6 parsecs — 2 jumps

As you can see much more clearly from this example, double jumping has some pretty distinct jump tempo advantages relative to single jumping, even across so short a span as a (mere) 6 parsecs.

Something to think about ...

I take the evidence as meaning something different. The book says the Vilani had contact with Answerin. It does not say they regularly received ships from Vland. That's why I suggested their borders are significantly rimward and trailing of Vland. For example, if Nii Khu is part of the Confederation, Answerin is only 5 jumps away at J-2 or 3 with J-3. (I picked Nii Khu because it's on a trade route from Vland, has a population in the billions, a Class A starport, and a Naval Base in modern times, suggesting it's a significant world).

Basically, I think all these cases of "that's really far from Vland" for places that various books say the Vilani went during the Long Night serve as evidence that the Vilani Confederation was at least moderately sprawling if not necessarily a huge number of worlds (the "archipelago" imagery might work well for them), since it could put "Vilani" much closer to these places than "Vland."