Any thoughts? :CoW:
Patent of Nobility Card (where are you?)
- Thread starter Shonner
- Start date
Any thoughts? :CoW:
I'm still completely befuddled by the notion of an independent world with 200 million inhabitants that has a negative production. I don't understand how that can come about. The explanation that they consume more than they produce requires an explanation of who is subsidizing them to such an extent and why.
And if they're that generous, couldn't they give the high noble a decent appanage?Hans
Hi,
I think RU is RxLxI + or - E
(From top of page 435 in the BBB)
Resources Infrastructure
(RLI+E) or (RLI-E)
Labor Efficiencies
Kind Regards (I haven't corrected the misspelling of labour)
David
Does this mean that...
R = Resources
L = Labor or Labor efficiency?
I = Infrastructure
E = Efficiency?
Which of these can be negative? The least resources you can have is none (not negative). The least labor you can have is none (not negative). The least infrastructure you can have is none (not negative). And the least efficiency you can have is none (not negative).
Actually, I don't think any of those factors can be completely non-positive unless you don't have any population at all. Laborers are a resource in themselves.
Hans
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Ah, there's the problem then. You can't have negative efficiency. You can't produce less than nothing.
For a quick, off the top of my head in no way tested, fix, I'd suggest that effective efficiency should be 1 + 0.1xEfficiency Factor. EF being what you roll the flux die for. I assume that the possible results of the flux die run from -5 to 5?
The only way a society can have a negative production is if they consume more than they produce, but that requires someone who is willing to lend them the difference. Which is not a stable situation.
What could provide a little more detail would be to define consumption and calculate RUs as Production minus Consumption. The result would be what the government and the noble would have to split between them for defenses and suchlike.
Hans
Tell that to Marc. He's the one who came up with the idea that a world can be a welfare state.
Asii by the Importance extension also is lucky to see a starship a month even though there are three worlds within jump 1. Two of them have C class starports and one has an A class with a Naval base. And all are higher tech level, One of the Cs and the A have tech B and the remaining C has a tech 9 vs Asii's tech 7.
The A class is Kakhirusar. It has a Knight as the noble and a population of 9,000
The C class with the high tech is Ikabi. It has a Count as the noble, a population of 8 billion in an asteroid belt.
The remaining C class is Junivaar. It has a Knight as the noble and a population of 80 and is corporate owned.
I think the world creation is a little too random.
Asii by the Importance extension also is lucky to see a starship a month even though there are three worlds within jump 1. Two of them have C class starports and one has an A class with a Naval base. And all are higher tech level, One of the Cs and the A have tech B and the remaining C has a tech 9 vs Asii's tech 7.
The A class is Kakhirusar. It has a Knight as the noble and a population of 9,000
The C class with the high tech is Ikabi. It has a Count as the noble, a population of 8 billion in an asteroid belt.
The remaining C class is Junivaar. It has a Knight as the noble and a population of 80 and is corporate owned.
I think the world creation is a little too random.
Did he also tell you how to figure out who is subsidizing the world to the tune of 500 RUs?
Just change anything that doesn't make sense. After all, you're trying to create something that works for you, not something that you can persuade Marc Miller to publish, right?
Granted, it's theoretically more efficient to base your TU on the same premises that other Traveller refs base theirs on, in the interest of being able to use the stuff they create. But if their premises are something that doesn't make sense, you're not going to be able to use it anyway, right?
And if the stuff you come up with makes more sense than Marc Miller's TU, maybe the other refs will start to use your stuff. YAY!
Just change anything that doesn't make sense.
BTW, doesn't T5 have that classic final paragraph to the world generation rules: "Change anything that doesn't make sense"?
Hans
It is, but MM is supposed to correct obvious errors, the thing bugging me atm
is that colony worlds are better represented in the moot than their owners,
eg SPIN 1515 Calit is a colony of 1413 Denotam, but has Be, whilst Denotam only gets a B....
Regards
David
Drakon
SOC-14 1K
If all our worlds were paradises, it would be a very boring game.
As for who is funding the world of 200 million people, my assumption is the Imperium at Large, rather than specific worlds. There has to be a good reason to support the world of Asii, just not an economic one.
It is important to remember that economics is not just about production, but consumption as well. That is the whole purpose of production anyway. A negative efficiency simply means the planet consumes more than it produces. Perhaps there is a huge construction project going on, or a long term rebuilding project. Was it recently involved in a war? Is it presently at war? Has it been overrun by brigands? Is the present planetary government corrupt and lining their pockets?
Perhaps that is why you were given your patent to begin with. Perhaps, as the Imperium is financing this mess of a planet, your patent comes with a warrent to clean up this mess, and turn things around. You worry about what resources you can bring to bear, and rightly so. But, that is part of the game.
There has to be one humdinger of a reason to explain why the Imperium supports a world to the tune of 500 RUs.
But that's not simple at all. You can't consume stuff that you haven't either produced or bought. And you can't buy on tick unless someone is willing to extend you credit.
I have the impression that the world's noble don't get any taxes because the production is negative. Did I get that wrong? Because rents and taxes are usually taken off the top of production, before the tenants and citizens get to spend anything on themselves.
That sort of thing doesn't cause negative production. It just means that the people who do the consuming are not the same as the people who do the producing.
What game? Is Kaeto playing in a game run by Marc Miller?
Hans
Yes, but that's easily explained... some Emperor liked someone on Calit better.
I bet that noble is a big pain in the posterior to Denotam. And Calit probably really, really, really likes that noble.
new cards arrived
Hi,
My card for Marquis Skull arrived in the post this morning and says Marquis Skull, whilst my Viscount card just says Viscount, with another card for Knight of Deneb (also located at Skull). I think this limits my appointment to the period between 111? (whenever Norris is appointed Archduke) to 112? (when Norris goes independent).
Does the different naming signify anything?
Can someone confirm dates please?
Many Thanks
Kind Regards
David
Hi,
My card for Marquis Skull arrived in the post this morning and says Marquis Skull, whilst my Viscount card just says Viscount, with another card for Knight of Deneb (also located at Skull). I think this limits my appointment to the period between 111? (whenever Norris is appointed Archduke) to 112? (when Norris goes independent).
Does the different naming signify anything?
Can someone confirm dates please?
Many Thanks
Kind Regards
David
David, We have the same job. I am also a Marquis of Skull, SPIN 2420 C4237C7-9
I wonder how duplicates could even exist?
Ken at Sunrise asked Marc this question directly in another thread.
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showpost.php?p=472157&postcount=18
In the case of Skull in particular:
I'm trying to recall why i ended up with Skull in the first place. Skull
has a high population of poor and merchant prince society. No mention of anti noble presence in the wiki. However, without receiving specifics from Marc (your nobility as X is replaced with Y) or your in L Timeframe it makes the nobility of little trading value.
Perhaps when I upgraded to Count my Marquis was removed from the list. hmm...
I could switch it to Former Marquis Skull...that's cool.
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ken at sunrise
SOC-12
I received new Patents:
Viscount of Adabicci - Spinward Marches - 1824
Marquis of Adabicci - Spinward Marches - 1824
Knight of the Third Imperium - Dodds - Spinward Marches - 2739
Argh.... Well I hope Aramis and I can stay friends, since he is not only the Viscount of Adabicci but, after all, he is the ARCHDUKE OF SYLEA as well as
I asked Marc about the duplicate Viscount of Adabicci; someone already put the quote in...
Thumb wrestle you for it :rofl: Actually it makes perfect sense, for my character's background, that I'd be given a contested holding. No worries Aramis, there's no way I'd put up a fight with the future Archduke of Sylea.
Viscount of Adabicci - Spinward Marches - 1824
Marquis of Adabicci - Spinward Marches - 1824
Knight of the Third Imperium - Dodds - Spinward Marches - 2739
Argh.... Well I hope Aramis and I can stay friends, since he is not only the Viscount of Adabicci but, after all, he is the ARCHDUKE OF SYLEA as well as
I asked Marc about the duplicate Viscount of Adabicci; someone already put the quote in...
Thumb wrestle you for it :rofl: Actually it makes perfect sense, for my character's background, that I'd be given a contested holding. No worries Aramis, there's no way I'd put up a fight with the future Archduke of Sylea.
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