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Modular Cutter Magazine

Lochlaber

SOC-11
The time it takes, at least according to T0-20 rules to change out cargo pods in a modular cutter got me a bit angry, especially as it was so in-efficient. Rather than having the cutter go outside the ship, drop the pod, dock and pick up the new pod, then take it out, then reversing everything so as to put the first pod back, then pick up the second pod yet again, I developed something else, (ie. stolen from others).

The pod magazine is your normal cutter bay which is surrounded on most sides by various pods which you could have prepared in advance. An example is that we have one pod set up for setting up a trading post, another for an advanced base on a planet/asteroid we are exploring, even a mining pod which could be used to extract precious metals or hydrogen from ice. (our gm won't just let us throw chunks of ice into the refinery tanks).

Now instead of having to back in and out, the shuttle just manuevers inside the dock and turns to the pod it wants and loads it as normal. You can keep 1 space open for the pod in the cutter or fill it for extra cargo space.

I originally had thought to have the cutter locked in place and be rotated to the proper pod but it was easy to figure out that the additional machinery needed to do this would outweigh the problems of the original method.

Since this would technically leave some dead space, I just surround the bay with a fuel tank, allowing use of every possible square inch. It also makes it easier to pump fuel from a dedicated pod into the tanks.

I added 10% to both the cost and weight of the cutter bay to handle the increased work & machinery. I would add in all the cost data but my books aren't available to me at the present moment. I would have cost it higher but since the book does allow you to do this with 2 pods at the original price, 10% more doesn't sound that bad.

By the way, our ship is a 5kdton Armed Merchantman explorer, essentially brand new (t-20 rules). It is astonishing what you can afford when your merchant captain can generally get anything he wants to buy at 30% and sell it at 400%, especially gold, radioactives jewelry.

(the bum rolled gold 4 times in a single trading session and got a max roll on the amount. Then he popped over to another system and sold it for 4x as much as it's book price, then he returned to the first planet with another load of stuff they had wanted and did it again.) One reason why I have a hard time with people saying they can't make money with speculative cargoes.
 
One reason why I have a hard time with people saying they can't make money with speculative cargoes.
I don't think anyone says that. Under normal cost of transit (ie, prepaid freight) it is really hard to cut even with most vessels.

See, that's the problem with speculative trade. As a roleplaying foil to foist a full load of frozen breeding yak onto PC's it works great. As soon as it meets reality it falls down.

Under T20 you have an even bigger travesty. What happens when the rest of the PC's take a level of trader, and blow ALL that levels skill points into broker. Suddenly you have a number of master traders, and with enough you might be able to start to fill the hold of a 5kdTon vessel.
 
So what is wrong with that. It is no different than creating a battle monster or a pilot monster or anything else that somebody might like to play. Given that a character is approximately 53 years of age (18 + <7x4=>28), why shouldn't they be good at what they do. In fact, since t-20 isn't combat type of game, why shouldn't there be trader monsters. (which I admit, we have one.)

I will admit there is a bit of in-house ruling in our trading game.
1. You can't buy a speculative cargo of the same type you just sold. So no selling gold for 32 million credits, then buying it for 2.4 million credits. I instituted that rule after he sold 5 million tons, then turned around, bought 5 million more tons, then sold it again. He didn't even have to leave the planet to make a huge profit, so I turned it into something else.
2. You cannot pick up anything more than 2 tech levels higher than the planet's tech level. I had tons of starship weapons on a tech 5 world and I decided, not likely.
3. There is also a limit on the tech stuff you can buy on a agricultural planet or ag stuff on a high tech world.
4. Canned Beverages is beer, not soda pop. This is just for flavor, I admit.

As for foisting a cargo on somebody, what makes the speculative cargo rules make this impossible. In fact, it is in fact easier, especially since animal embroy's and frozen sperm are on the lists. Just havethe seller not adequtely identify the stuff, on purpose or accidently, according to how you want to play it.

Our rule is that you can get 4 levels of broker with 1 level of trader but broker is a class specific skill. This requires more and more levels of merchant levels to get the bigger bang for the skill points. So why shouldn't the player with 10 levels of merchanter be a killer on the commodities floor.

BTW, even he can't fill the holds all of the time without taking on prepaid cargoes, passengers and the like. I like this because it gives me the chance to finagle with his cargo.
 
get 4 levels of broker with 1 level of trader
A 14 intelligence human can pick up 10 ranks in broker in a single merchant level (as long as it is character level 7 or higher). I think the part I object to is the suddenness, from "Whats a cargo, how does trading work" to "I am the lord master trader, bow before my fiduciary might" in a single level.

Sure I houseruled it out after the fact. By that time the damage had been done to my campaign.

The problem isn't someone with 10 levels in merchant. Master trader is appropriate in that case. The problem is the career naval officer deciding to become a master trader in a weekend.[1]

[1]Which is only appropriate if the were a officer working in the quartermaster section.

On the other hand, big risk, big reward. If that's the amount of cash he is bringing in, there has got to be a reason. Piracy, sabotage, unusual Tax laws can level the feild awful fast.
 
Your campaign stories are always hilarious, Veltyen.
 
I did say that in our campaign, broker was a merchant class skill. With only 1 level of merchant, you are limited to 1 level of Broker + 3=4, as per the rules for class skills (you can't spend other skill points on raising it). If you want to get to 10, you had better be spending 7 levels of merchant to get that high, without the feats of course.

Veltyan, I've tried about 6 different pirate attacks, one consisting of 4 400 ton ships. The problem was, all of them had 3 triple missile (12) turrets vs our 15 and 4 laser turrets to protect them from our missile storm and we had 15 triple laser turrets, as well as our hidden barbette with a salvaged fusion weapon (not a nuke, I just can't remember what it is called). We ended up with 2 completely salvageable ships and 2 hulks which we could scavenge power plants, jump engines and of course their weapons.which we could remove the power plants, drive, computers and a load of personal weapons and some other goodies, including a salvaged but inoperable nuclear warhead, TL 13 PGMP's (we are 12, but there is a plan involved here), all of which we got nice receipts for from the nice IN battleship and a company of marines who came to collect them and the prisoners.
A secondary result was that we sold enough of the salvaged material to pay for the repairs for 4 of the other ships and they are now busy working away on a set route which our master trader set up, earning us money every month. Enough so that we are considering buying another 5kdton ship, 60% downpayment.

While some might say the ship and financial security of the trading fleet makes it impossible to adventure, I found it makes it easier. After all, you have 5 ships to run & maintain, 5 crews to keep paid, 4 captains to keep honest, as well as plentitude of local political work to keep the locals from taking over our fleet Making the nut for one ship is hard, 5 ships is just as hard and requires as much play.

BTW, if the 100 pirates on the one fleet had been able to board, they would have probably died, nastily. A 20mm gatling gun with AP-6 shells was hidden directly opposite each airlock, along with some interesting mines built into the airlocks. I worked it out and in less than 2 minutes at full auto, it would have wiped out the invaders and ripped through the interior and out the other side. If we had to fight, we spent almost a million credits to give all of our security forces gauss rifles with multiple magazines of AP-6. It cost a lot but my life is worth the money we spent.
 
Originally by Lochlaber:
I did say that in our campaign, broker was a merchant class skill....<snip> ...of course.
Apologies. I think you mean exclusive. That's not quite how class skills or exclusive class skills work as far as I understand, hence my confusion.
 
Originally posted by Lochlaber:
I did say that in our campaign, broker was a merchant class skill. With only 1 level of merchant, you are limited to 1 level of Broker + 3=4, as per the rules for class skills (you can't spend other skill points on raising it). If you want to get to 10, you had better be spending 7 levels of merchant to get that high, without the feats of course.
That's the definition of an "exclusive" class skill, not a normal class skill. Normally, a class skill can be bought as cross-class if your new class level doesn't have that skill listed. Also, *any* skill that has been a class skill (but not an exclusive) for any of a character's classes can be bought up to (character level +3) with any available skill points, expensive as that might be if you never return to a class that has that skill.

As for the reality of the spec cargo rules, meh. It's all a hook for getting PCs to talk to brokers, "small package" owners and receivers, and other potential patrons. it's why building a ship that can make payments on freight alone is nearly impossible: such ships are *boring*.
 
GypsyComet,

I though exclusive worked exactly as other skills, but could only be bought from skill points earned by that class. So if your max (from character level) was 7, and level 4 was your first level of academic, you could still buy 7 ranks in that level. If your next level did not have the exclusive skill, then you couldn't put any points into it. Is this described any better then this elsewhere?
 
An exclusive skill can only be purchased with skill points earned by that specific class and is limited to 'x' levels + 3. IMTU, broker skill is exclusive to the merchant class, forcing that player to spend a lot of time working as a merchant. He didn't get the big promotions that some of us did, exp bonus or the like but now he can make millions in a single trading session.


GC, a big ship doesn't mean you can always make the mortgage payments and the monthly nut. Do you think that a major company doesn't worry about making a profit each month, to keep on earning enough to pay their bills and make a profit and expand. Sometimes their need to fill their holds allows me to place that small cargo of illicit gemstones, drugs, etc. into their hold, leading to their newest adventure.

Money does allow them to prepare for their adventures. About 1/5th of their estwhile cargo space is filled with equipment for just in case scenario's. Given that the ship works on the boundaries of the expanding Empire, it is sometimes needed but they still forget something. However it doesn't mean they are going to figure out the mcguffin I planted or even the double, leading them on my nastily planned path to glory or doom.
 
Originally posted by veltyen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />One reason why I have a hard time with people saying they can't make money with speculative cargoes.
I don't think anyone says that. Under normal cost of transit (ie, prepaid freight) it is really hard to cut even with most vessels.
</font>[/QUOTE]Yes, several do. I've engaged in heated debates with most of them.

Lochlabor: T20's trade system is more forgiving than CT's, even though very similar. It is in fact possible to get a route and make the payments on crew-share merchant ships, with 3rd and 4th level merchant characters. (+6 to +14 skill assets...) better skills, bigger ships.

of course, the skill/character levels in the release version are based upon a higher rate of experience (in both Prior Experience and in play) than the playtests were, so all the numbers got a bit easier. In my playtest campaign, no character passed 9th level. He started as 7th... (with 9 terms, no less!).
 
By way of example:

Traveller George is 6th level overall, 4 level in class "A" and 2 levels in class "B".

Any class skill (that isn't an exclusive) for either class may be bought to 9 ranks with any points available, though these skills may be more expensive at some level-ups due to being cross-class *at that level-up*.

Exclusive skills for Class A may be bought to 7 ranks using only the points earned during level-ups in Class A.

Exclusive skills for Class B may be bought to 5 ranks using only the points earned during level-ups in Class B.

Skills that do not appear on either the A or B skill lists (and which have not been otherwise turned into "class skills" by a feat or background) may be bought up to 4.5 ranks by any points available at the cross-class rate.

Because of the high education and extreme data availability inherent to the Traveller setting, exclusives should be *very* rare.
 
That is why I made broker a merchant only class skill. Unlike most of the other skills, it is both them most powerful and the one that is the least likely to be learned during your average term at anything but merchant. I will admit that I like players giving me a generalized expansion on their prior history and I might make exemptions and if it is good enough they might get access to an otherwise exclusive or class skill.
 
The time it takes, at least according to T0-20 rules to change out cargo pods in a modular cutter got me a bit angry, especially as it was so in-efficient. Rather than having the cutter go outside the ship, drop the pod, dock and pick up the new pod, then take it out, then reversing everything so as to put the first pod back, then pick up the second pod yet again, I developed something else, (ie. stolen from others).

I have the same problem with the Broadsword. There are two cutters and only room for two modules (one for each cutter), and it would require the module shuffle EVA to change them. Somehow, I don't think that is what was meant. Looking at widening the module bay to allow 2-3 modules to be stored, or to design a "stretch" version by adding 5 more decks to allow for a module storage area (and more berths for another platoon?)

Thoughts?
 
Thoughts?

Since the Type C isn't technically streamlined, IMTU I would build a competing hull to the Broadsword spec that just carries the modules (and cutters) clamped on an exposed, outside frame similar to the Zhodani Shivva-class configuration... fly into position, pop the deployed module into a stall on the rack, disengage it and hover free of it, line up on and engage another module, pop it free, and you're off again.

I handle freight (in my large transports) much the same way, taking my inspiration from modern container ships and using the Cutter Module as my default shipping unit.
 
I can think of a way to make the classic sphere Broadsword work without the shuffle. I'm not 100% certain it would work as fussy as I am with deckplans but give me the slack in the originals and I can do it. It involves a revolver system and a small change in the way the modular cutter works (said change being the way most people have been drawing it anyway), that is the modules are full cylinders and the helm and drive sections are caps that lock onto it.

Otherwise you need to redesign the ship from scratch and then you may as well make it more sensible and simply go for an armored streamlined version that can land the whole troop complement and vehicles on any world. Eliminate the small craft wastage entirely. It'll be cheaper and give you more room in the bargain. Credits you can put towards better software, and space you can apply to carry more troops and vehicles for a better force.
 
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Dan, your revolver idea works just fine with "spine" types cutters, too... just that the spine needs to face away from the cassette, and the revolver cassette is overlapping the four modules. Essentially, you get two configurations without EVA, and with one backed out past the cassette, the other can pick any one.
 
Dan, your revolver idea works just fine with "spine" types cutters, too... just that the spine needs to face away from the cassette, and the revolver cassette is overlapping the four modules. Essentially, you get two configurations without EVA, and with one backed out past the cassette, the other can pick any one.

:) Except that I don't believe in the (skinny) spine version. I don't think the spine is enough to support the craft. At the very least it needs to be a half cylinder imo.

And in either case a spine (skinny or bigger) introduces waste volume to the revolver concept.

And I kind of like the idea of the (much more) modular concept of a helm and drive cap. You could haul any length of module with it, or even fat modules. Or choose a different drive module for different applications. The only better concept I've seen and used is that of a tug.
 
Temporary thread hijack:

1) I like the idea of a skinny spine external to a full cylinder. It's made of superdense and it's pretty rigid.

2) Do you have a method/handwave to stop tugs having fighter performance when unloaded?
 
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