Modifying surplus ships.

[AnotherDilbert]

The questions you keep trying to deflect with are easily answered, and irrelevant to installing fuel purification plants.

No, the questions, and your answers, were deliberate and on point. They clearly illustrates why the discussion goes nowhere: We are not talking about the same thing, the same rules.

You are, as far as I can tell, talking about the rules you play by, that can change by example.
I talk about the rules written in the books, that can't change (except by explicit errata of the rule itself).

Hence, the discussion is moot.

 

[spank]

No, the questions, were deliberate atempts by you to change the subject, and not stay on point. They clearly illustrate why the discussion goes nowhere—You cannot answer the basic question. What prohibits you from installing a fuel purification plant?

You are, as far as I can tell, deliberately avoiding answering the question. Because you can't. Because the rules do not prohibit it.

And instead of admitting that, you deliberately an maliciously ignore the question, bring up other issues, and use mendacious language, such as calling the writers of the game "super referees".

They are not "super referees, they are the people who wrote the rules. They write compilations of data derived from Traveller rules, and they write the errata. Calling them "super referees" instead of the writes of the game can only be an attempt to keep from admitting there are no rules prohibiting installing fuel purifiers in book 2 ships.


For all your talk of rules written in books you can't cite a single rule prohibiting it. Hence, the discussion is moot.

No, the questions, and your answers, were deliberate and on point. They clearly illustrates why the discussion goes nowhere: We are not talking about the same thing, the same rules.

You are, as far as I can tell, talking about the rules you play by, that can change by example.
I talk about the rules written in the books, that can't change (except by explicit errata of the rule itself).

Hence, the discussion is moot.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

No, the questions, were deliberate atempts by you to change the subject, and not stay on point.

NO. Don't presume to say what I meant.

This clearly shows what I mean:

The question that you studiously ignore is if your logic applies to the XBoat, the Gazelle and the Annic Nova:
...
It is RAW to carry less than 4 weeks of power plant fuel?

It is acceptable to carry less than 4 week fuel—X-boats.

RAW is, as it always was:

LBB2'81, p15:

It has not been changed, no errata has been issued.

A RAW LBB2 ship has 10Pn fuel tankage, or else it is house-ruled. Nothing wrong with that, of course, it's just not RAW.

They clearly illustrate why the discussion goes nowhere—You cannot answer the basic question.

I have, multiple times.

What prohibits you from installing a fuel purification plant?

E.g.:

LBB2 has no system or rules for ornithopters, collectors, nor fuel processing plants.
If it has any of these components, it's no longer a plain LBB2 ship.

You build those ships by waving the magic wand of Rule 0.

If you install a component from different design system, it's not a RAW LBB2 ship, it's house-ruled.
If you install a component in the engineering section, where by RAW it can't be, it's not a RAW LBB2 ship, it's house-ruled.
Nothing wrong with that, of course, it's just not RAW.

 

[spank]

And once again you are deflecting, instead of answering the question—"What prohibits installing a fuel purification plant?"

• There is not text in any book prohibiting it and you can't cite a single rule prohibiting it.
• There is no reason to think it can't be done
• There are a number of examples of GDW using fitments from other books in Book 2 ships.

NO. Don't presume to say what I meant.

This clearly shows what I mean:



RAW is, as it always was:

It has not been changed, no errata has been issued.

A RAW LBB2 ship has 10Pn fuel tankage, or else it is house-ruled. Nothing wrong with that, of course, it's just not RAW.




I have, multiple times.


E.g.:


If you install a component from different design system, it's not a RAW LBB2 ship, it's house-ruled.
If you install a component in the engineering section, where by RAW it can't be, it's not a RAW LBB2 ship, it's house-ruled.
Nothing wrong with that, of course, it's just not RAW.

 

[Grav_Moped]

This is an old argument. There's nothing magical about "Rules as Written" (RAW) except that they're written. They may well be"wrong" or nonsensical -- and that's fine.

The only thing that something being RAW gets you is the rebuttable presumption of validity. "Because it says so" is supporting evidence. "But it doesn't make any sense that way, even if that's what it says" is a valid rebuttal if you can clearly explain why it doesn't make sense. It doesn't turn your interpretation into RAW though -- and it really doesn't matter that it doesn't!

And for the record, I would cheerfully accept house-ruling that you could put a LBB5 fuel processor into the wasted drive bay space in a Type R. Its literally legit in LBB2 through a simple referee declaration that the ship is somehow a "Military Transport" and therefore can use unrefined fuel safely at no additional cost or tonnage. Therefore, dragging in HG fuel processors for the same ends should raise no objections, and, likewise, allowing them to fit in otherwise unusable space. That's from an on-paper rules/rules-variations perspecitive.

From an in-universe (fictional) engineering perspective? Maybe. Fuel processors would seem to be working with cryogenic fluids, which might not be entirely compatible with fusion reactors operating at stellar temperatures and pressures... But on the other hand, the engineering sections of most canon starships maintain the same shirtsleeve environment as the rest of the ship, so... [shrug]

 

[Silverhawk]

This is an old argument. There's nothing magical about "Rules as Written" (RAW) except that they're written. They may well be"wrong" or nonsensical -- and that's fine.

The only thing that something being RAW gets you is the rebuttable presumption of validity. "Because it says so" is supporting evidence. "But it doesn't make any sense that way, even if that's what it says" is a valid rebuttal if you can clearly explain why it doesn't make sense. It doesn't turn your interpretation into RAW though -- and it really doesn't matter that it doesn't!

And for the record, I would cheerfully accept house-ruling that you could put a LBB5 fuel processor into the wasted drive bay space in a Type R. Its literally legit in LBB2 through a simple referee declaration that the ship is somehow a "Military Transport" and therefore can use unrefined fuel safely at no additional cost or tonnage. Therefore, dragging in HG fuel processors for the same ends should raise no objections, and, likewise, allowing them to fit in otherwise unusable space. That's from an on-paper rules/rules-variations perspecitive.

From an in-universe (fictional) engineering perspective? Maybe. Fuel processors would seem to be working with cryogenic fluids, which might not be entirely compatible with fusion reactors operating at stellar temperatures and pressures... But on the other hand, the engineering sections of most canon starships maintain the same shirtsleeve environment as the rest of the ship, so... [shrug]

Here here.

Those were the things that made Murphy's Rules in Space Gamer so funny. The one that always comes to mind is that the Strength chart in Champions strictly interpreted indicated that a baby could throw a football 80 yards with the caption being "Does Vince Lombardi know."

For what it's worth, I'm more concerned about having a good enjoyable story than whether it is strictly following the RAW. Some of the worst games that I have played in were where the GM was strictly following the RAW and leaving the PCs in a situation with no way out.

Just my two credits worth

 

[AnotherDilbert]

While RAW is probably not something anyone plays, it has a function: It is what you can reasonably expect a Referee to accept.

If you want to house-rule a character/ship/vehicle, you have to ask the Referee.
If you move to another campaign, with another Referee, you have to ask the new Referee.