Modifying surplus ships.

[spank]

Traders and Gunboats is a GDW product, not a "referee ruling".
Beyond that it's just common sense, if a fitment exists in another rules book, supplement, adventure, or JTAS article, it is reasonable to assume it could be used in any design LBB 2 or LBB5. Unless it's specifically prohibited.

Sure, the Referee or "super-referee" can rule anything they want, but I, as a lowly ship designer, can't.

LBB2 has no concept of a fuel purifier, just "drives are specially built to use [unrefined fuel]". Sure, LBB2 doesn't ban fuel purifiers, just as it does not warp drives, but that does not mean that either is free for use or without cost.

 

[TamsinP]

TTB says the same thing as LBB2:



The Scout, Free Trader, and Subbie are specified to be streamlined. E.g. the Liner and Yacht are not...

You missed two from LBB2 (81) - the Mercenary Cruiser is unstreamlined (it is also described as unstreamlined in LBB A07, although how that conflicts with the premise of the adventure where it has "grounded" on Garda-Vilis which has a standard atmosphere), and the Patrol Cruiser is described as streamlined.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Oops...

No worries, we all make mistakes...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

You missed two from LBB2 (81) - the Mercenary Cruiser is unstreamlined (it is also described as unstreamlined in LBB A07, although how that conflicts with the premise of the adventure where it has "grounded" on Garda-Vilis which has a standard atmosphere), and the Patrol Cruiser is described as streamlined.

Quite, it was not an exhaustive list, just a few examples.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Traders and Gunboats is a GDW product, not a "referee ruling".

That is what I call the "super-referee", i.e. the game authors. They can, and do, go outside the rules, just as well as the referee can do. E.g. the Annic Nova.

Beyond that it's just common sense, if a fitment exists in another rules book, supplement, adventure, or JTAS article, it is reasonable to assume it could be used in any design LBB 2 or LBB5. Unless it's specifically prohibited.

Nothing is prohibited, that is the definition of Rule 0. A design system is a procedure how to do something, it is not necessarily the only way to do things. It is not intended to stop you from doing things, but a guideline to help you doing things.

But that does not mean that a player can claim his ship has a collector, an antimatter power plant, or a matter transporter (all mentioned in CT) without Referee approval. And that Referee approval might not extend to someone else's game.


Does fuel purification plants exist in Traveller canon? Yes, obviously.
Does that mean that all ships in Traveller have them, without cost or tonnage? No, not by RAW, and not in my game. Anyone else's game may differ...

 

[spank]

That is what I call the "super-referee", i.e. the game authors. They can, and do, go outside the rules, just as well as the referee can do. E.g. the Annic Nova.

That's a funny way of not saying the game as written allows it.

Nothing is prohibited, that is the definition of Rule 0. A design system is a procedure how to do something, it is not necessarily the only way to do things. It is not intended to stop you from doing things, but a guideline to help you doing things.

But that does not mean that a player can claim his ship has a collector, an antimatter power plant, or a matter transporter (all mentioned in CT) without Referee approval. And that Referee approval might not extend to someone else's game.

That's actually the opposite of rule 0. The fuel plant exists in the game, and the only way a player would not have access to it is by referee fiat.

Does fuel purification plants exist in Traveller canon? Yes, obviously.
Does that mean that all ships in Traveller have them, without cost or tonnage? No, not by RAW, and not in my game. Anyone else's game may differ...

The Cannon is RAW, and RAW includes fuel purification plants on book 2 ships. You may not like it, any that's your prerogative. But what you do in YTU is doesn't abrogate RAW. By RAW fuel purification plant can be, and are, used on OTU LBB2 designs.

 

[kilemall]

That's a funny way of not saying the game as written allows it.



That's actually the opposite of rule 0. The fuel plant exists in the game, and the only way a player would not have access to it is by referee fiat.


The Cannon is RAW, and RAW includes fuel purification plants on book 2 ships. You may not like it, any that's your prerogative. But what you do in YTU is doesn't abrogate RAW. By RAW fuel purification plant can be, and are, used on OTU LBB2 designs.

Technically LBB2 says military and scout ships can jump on unrefined fuel- which could be interpreted that there is an intrinsic fuel purifier or that they are designed to work that way. The latter would have been assumed until LBB5 introduced the concept of the fuel purifier equipment.

But commercial/private ships definitely don’t have that capacity by virtue of unrefined fuel effects coupled with the scout/military distinction.

 

[mike wightman]

And yet the canon quote above says that they can have, just in case you missed in CT S:7 says this:

"Subsidized Merchant (Type R): Constructed using the type 400 hull, the subsidized merchant is equipped with class C drives capable of producing jump-1, 1-G acceleration, and power plant-1. Fuel tankage is 50 tons, sufficient for one jump, plus some maneuver. Fuel scoops are integral with the hull, and a fuel purification plant allows use of unrefined fuel...

To both port and starboard on the lower level, corridors run the length of the ship, connecting the forward control areas with the aft drive rooms. Each corridor provides access to the ship's turrets, to a cargo air lock, and to the fuel scoop and purification mechanisms"

 

[kilemall]

And yet the canon quote above says that they can have, just in case you missed in CT S:7 says this:

"Subsidized Merchant (Type R): Constructed using the type 400 hull, the subsidized merchant is equipped with class C drives capable of producing jump-1, 1-G acceleration, and power plant-1. Fuel tankage is 50 tons, sufficient for one jump, plus some maneuver. Fuel scoops are integral with the hull, and a fuel purification plant allows use of unrefined fuel...

To both port and starboard on the lower level, corridors run the length of the ship, connecting the forward control areas with the aft drive rooms. Each corridor provides access to the ship's turrets, to a cargo air lock, and to the fuel scoop and purification mechanisms"

He said LBB2. S7 was probably after LBB5.

LBB2 has the clear distinction which would include the stock R.