Magical Traveller starship heat sinks discovered?
- Thread starter navanod
- Start date
That's the problem. Some gamers think that they see stealth in outer-space. What they are actually seeing is stealth in a partial 3D, atmospheric environment and, not understanding physical science want to say that an apple IS an orange. Then, can't reconcile when someone tells them that apples are not really oranges...
The best way to "sneak" into a protected system is to pretend to be someone innocuous until you get close enough. Hide in plain sight.
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Ok, here are some issues to clear up and define and so far I haven't seen the answers here on the boards;
(for each, answer for each type of sensor)
At what range can a moving object be detected?
At what range can that moving object be determined that it is a Ship and not something else?
At what range can the approximate dTons be determined?
At what range can the approximate class be determined? i.e. Military vs. Civilian, Armed Warship/Unarmed Military Auxiliary?
At what range can the exact class be determined?
At what range can the nationality/military service be determined?
The answer to each of them need to be determined for each step of the defender's Rules of Engagement.
And something to think about, early in the morning of 7 Dec 1941 the US Army RADAR station at Opana Point detected the first wave of incoming Japanese aircraft but a junior officer misinterpreted the reported detection as a wave of friendly craft. A perfect example of an enemy being easily detected but the watch officer screwing it up.
(for each, answer for each type of sensor)
At what range can a moving object be detected?
At what range can that moving object be determined that it is a Ship and not something else?
At what range can the approximate dTons be determined?
At what range can the approximate class be determined? i.e. Military vs. Civilian, Armed Warship/Unarmed Military Auxiliary?
At what range can the exact class be determined?
At what range can the nationality/military service be determined?
The answer to each of them need to be determined for each step of the defender's Rules of Engagement.
And something to think about, early in the morning of 7 Dec 1941 the US Army RADAR station at Opana Point detected the first wave of incoming Japanese aircraft but a junior officer misinterpreted the reported detection as a wave of friendly craft. A perfect example of an enemy being easily detected but the watch officer screwing it up.
From what I gather, you don't have any real-world experience with detecting objects in space from space. Nor do you have any experience with reducing the signature of spacecraft. Not even using TL7 sensor technology, much less using TL15 sensor technology.
All you have is a faith in your opinion strong enough to dismiss any evidence that doesn't conform to that opinion. I'm afraid that isn't very convincing.
Hans
The answer to each of them need to be determined for each step of the defender's Rules of Engagement.
All we are talking about it detection...
"No Stealth In Space?" Someone should tell the USAF that...
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB143/index.htm
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB143/nph-Parser.htm
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB143/index.htm
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB143/nph-Parser.htm
Excuse me but detection doesn't mean crap to a military commander. Identification of a threat and ROE is what's important. Modern sensors can Detect lots of things, including Stealth Aircraft. The key is being able determine what that detected object is and knowing what to do about it...
"No Stealth In Space?" Someone should tell the USAF that...
No need. The "USAF" already knows that in deep space (not a few miles from a planet) There is no stealth in space.
:rofl:
Tell that to NORAD when they "detect" but don't positively ID, nationality, type, etc. a hypersonic, man made object reentering over the US.
Too funny for words.
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NORAD identifies it by the orbital path. We have ROE to cover that...
It's not the same for a Traveller Starship that jumps into a system. Detection of a ship arriving from Jump doesn't mean that it is an attack craft. Identification and ROE is going to be the important part...
Yea, you say that like someone who has never had to follow a ROE...
And, you say it like someone who thinks that the ONLY & 1st thing one does is shoot at something...
My experience is more along the lines of recommending national policy vis-a-vis Defense.
It's not the same for a Traveller Starship that jumps into a system. Detection of a ship arriving from Jump doesn't mean that it is an attack craft. Identification and ROE is going to be the important part...
Right, because detection is a foregone conclusion.
Hans
Exactly. Which is why the only way to pull it off is to pretend to be someone you are not.
And, you say it like someone who thinks that the ONLY & 1st thing one does is shoot at something...
My experience is more along the lines of recommending national policy vis-a-vis Defense.
Nope, my experience is with tactical base defense in a civilian populated area and Identification/ROE is VERY Important...
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NORAD identifies it by the orbital path. We have ROE to cover that...
ACTUALLY, we have steps to get more data based on its orbital path. THEN, ROE is followed. You sound like someone who has never worked high up in the National Command Authority structure...
Detection is closely tied to ID. If a system gives off enough false positives, then the operators start ignoring the detection systems. "Detection" IS Closely tied to Identification, which is one of the things Darkwing was trying to say. Just because your systems detect something doesn't mean that it will be interpreted correctly by either a computer OR a Human decision maker...
ACTUALLY, we have steps to get more data based on its orbital path. THEN, ROE is followed. You sound like someone who has never worked high up in the National Command Authority structure...
yea, yea, didn't feel like quoting the whole publicly available process and then doing a term paper with proven sources about the subject. My point is that there is a BIG difference between a warhead incoming from another point on the same planet vs something arriving beyond a jump limit and having to ID it from friendly/enemy...
Space is empty. You won't get "false positives" around the parameters we are discussing.
