Level XP requirements?

[binky]

Okay, I'm probably being thick and/or blind, but I can't seem to find what tells you the XP requirements for each level.

Am I being stupid or is it missing?

- Neil.
(working with the PDF on screen due to printer issues)

 

[lord irial]

Neither; the d20/OGL rules dictate that you cannot print the level progression tables in a d20 product. That's one of the ways that WotC makes you have to buy the D&D3e Player's Handbook to play any d20 game.

 

[hunter]

Originally posted by lord irial:
Neither; the d20/OGL rules dictate that you cannot print the level progression tables in a d20 product. That's one of the ways that WotC makes you have to buy the D&D3e Player's Handbook to play any d20 game.

Well actually you can create your own experience progression table and release it under the d20 license. The trick is, you can't use the one in the Players's Handbook because the PHB does not contain any Open Game Content, and it (the table) is also NOT in the d20 System Resource Document. You also can't explain how to use any custom table you do create.

So technically I could put our own experience point table in T20, but it would have to be different from the one in the PHB. I just don't know if I can get away with adding a 1 to each level's XP requirement and call it original...Changing it much more than that is kind of pointless since I can't explain the changes.

Hunter

 

[Friadoc]

Hunter,

...couldn't you do it, in a way, by changing the formulaic for experience?

Make it a 1/10th that of what's in the PHB?

0-100 for first, et al? Since having a 'unique' level progression or advancement is allowed under the OGL, right?

Just an idea, although I'm sure fudging around the OGL and stuff could be problematic in the long run.

Addendum: Or even using a smaller, numeric style (ala White Wolf's Storyteller system)

 

[Reginald]

Well according to the new version (2.0) of the Trademark Usage Guide (it's been out for quite awhile):

Definition of Applying the effects of Experience to a Character:

Applying the effects of Experience to a Character means a description of the process for comparing the accumulated experience point total of a character to a chart to determine if the character's level should be incremented. If the experience level of a character exceeds threshold values as defined by the chart, the character is modified in a specified fashion.

Specifically, Applying the effects of Experience to a Character means incrementing the character level of a character by incrementing a class level by one rank, or by adding a new class at first level, and describing how to allocate new skill points, select new feats, or gain new class-level linked abilities.

Applying the effects of Experience to a Character does not include creating or modifying an experience point chart, defining a new class (including describing what benefits that class provides at each level).

Of course, if you're going to use the one in the Player's Handbook (unaltered) then it makes no sense to include it in your d20-based product. You would be wasting ink and valuable space reserved for your game material. Just refer to the XP chart in the PH, among other things.

QuikLink, don't forget to read d20 System Trademark License version 3.0, also available.

 

[binky]

Originally posted by hunter:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lord irial:
Neither; the d20/OGL rules dictate that you cannot print the level progression tables in a d20 product. That's one of the ways that WotC makes you have to buy the D&D3e Player's Handbook to play any d20 game.

Well actually you can create your own experience progression table and release it under the d20 license. The trick is, you can't use the one in the Players's Handbook because the PHB does not contain any Open Game Content, and it (the table) is also NOT in the d20 System Resource Document. You also can't explain how to use any custom table you do create.

So technically I could put our own experience point table in T20, but it would have to be different from the one in the PHB. I just don't know if I can get away with adding a 1 to each level's XP requirement and call it original...Changing it much more than that is kind of pointless since I can't explain the changes.

Hunter</font>[/QUOTE]Thanks for the pointers. As it happens I do own a PHB but it's in storage at the mo. Thankfully I have D20 Call of Cthulhu so I'll use the table from there.

I assume the Lite version is primarly aimed at enticing existing D20 players into the Traveller universe, rather than getting existing Traveller players to try the D20 system.

- Neil
(who's of to generate some characters and get ready to mess with some player's minds).

 

[Reginald]

There are so many versions of Traveller out there including CT, so T20 is definitely aimed at the d20 community.

 

[tim_manley]

Originally posted by hunter:
....you can't use the one in the Players's Handbook because the PHB does not contain any Open Game Content, and it (the table) is also NOT in the d20 System Resource Document. You also can't explain how to use any custom table you do create.....

I'll start with the caveat that I'm not a lawyer and the 2nd one that it has been some time (since early 90s) since I consulted with a lawyer about this.

But, if memory servers, one cannot copyright or trademark a mathematical formula. You also cannot trademark, copyright or patent a 'process'. I believe this was attempted by Amazon some time ago; they tried to patent their shopping cart process and were shot down pretty quickly.

So, I'm not too sure if it's a 'true' restriction on using WoTC's 'xp chart' since it's a simple formula:
x+(y*1000)
where x = XP cost for previous level
where y = the previous level

So, to figure out level 1 you have the xp cost of level 0, which is 0 and the cost of the previous level * 1000 which is also 0 and so the xp cost is 0.

But, for level 2 you have the X = to 0 and y = to 1 * 1,000 so you have 1,000xp

for level 3 you have x = to 1,000 and y = 2 * 1,000 or 2,000 so level 3 = 3,000

etc.....

and, that, I do not think can be considered any trade secret....

But...then you probably don't want to piss off the folks who'se system your using anyway

 

[Barbarossa]

No, it is not. The same calculation is used for a german RPG for years (but with the factor 100 instead of 1000).

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by Barbarossa:
The same calculation is used for a german RPG for years (but with the factor 100 instead of 1000).

You could certainly use that XP progression in an independant game with no legal problems. However, as long as you want to use the d20 logo, you must abide by the WotC licensing requirements, even if those are more restrictive than general copyright law would be.

 

[Reginald]

And what WotC licensing requirements would those be?

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by Reginald:
And what WotC licensing requirements would those be?

No need to get shirty about it. I'm just saying that coming up with clever "workarounds" to the issue of not being allowed to include the experience chart is not a good idea. It won't pass the sprit of the OGL and it won't make a company that tries it popular with Wizards.

 

[Gallowglass]

Originally posted by Reginald:
And what WotC licensing requirements would those be?

Err, the ones in the D20 System trademark and the Open Gaming License, both of which are effectively more restrictive than normal copyright law?

Using the D20 STL / OGL requires you have a license for all the IP you use that is not your own, no matter how small the amount, where as normal copyright law allows for fair use. One of the things that made me abandon my initial hostility to the d20 bandwagon, was realising just how much WotC had put in to the d20 STL and OGL to protect third party IP.

The OGL and d20 STL are really rather impressive mechanisms for "opening" up a common pool of game mechanics, whilst providing the legal protection necessary for people to make a living. Whether the d20 rules are the best thing since sliced bread is another matter entirely...

 

[Reginald]

Oh, I agree it is a great scheme.

I just want to know what the third and final paragraph that I italicized above (see my earlier post), taken directly from the most current version of the Trademark Usage Guide, actually means.

And IIRC, you're supposed to apply the most current version of the System Trademark License (version 3.0) and Trademark Usage Guide (version 2.0), now available.