Let's talk about Molten Giants

[Maladominus]

I wanted to discuss the possibility of what I personally (IMTU) have been calling Molten Giants. To give everyone a picture, let's just say that I'm talking about a world that pretty much resembles Mustafar in Star Wars.... with a generous molten core, so much so that the molten lava/magma/whatever spills out generously onto the surface crust. Assuming it even has a formed crust?

We know what Gas Giants are. But I find little or zero discussion on the plausability or imaginings of a "molten giant".

My contentions:

#1. It's most likely GOING TO BE A GIANT (i.e considerably larger than Earth). Because a small puny planet is not going to last too very long in molten form. That small planet will cool off faster than a large one. Of course, "not too long" might mean a very long time!

I speculate that a LARGER-sized planet would retain its hot "lava-faced" molten form for a much longer time. As I am no professional geologist, and nothing more than a SciFi speculist at this point, someone feel free to correct me if my initial assumptions are way wrong.


#2. It's a YOUNG planet, right? Right? In the earlier stages of formation. Right? Again, I'm just throwing some hunches here.


#3. Now are the other WHAT IFs. What would the atmosphere consist of? And assuming that a good part of the surface is covered by a crust layer (land, goold solid land, not hot spewing lava), would that part of the planet be habitable?


#4. Given what we know of our Milky Way Galaxy, and what we suspect to be the "age" and historical formation of our own galaxy, is there room for occassional "molten giants" in our own galaxy? Or would such worlds only be possible through Ancients meddling?

 

[atpollard]

I can imagine setting up a station in orbit around a GG to process fuel.
I can imagine a mining settlement tunneled into a vacuum world.
I can imagine a vacation home floating on a water world.

I cannot imagine why anyone would want to live/work/settle in/on/near molten rock.

 

[chshrkt]

I believe that the atmosphere would consist of mostly noxious by-products of... well, volcanoes, and overall magma-ey goodness.

You know, stuff like:
Sulfur dioxide
Carbon dioxide
hydrogen sulfide
hydrogen
carbon monoxide
hydrogen chloride (hydrochloric acid in gaseous form, not too nice for the average Vacc suit)
hydrogen fluoride
And finally,
helium

I think we can safely assume that there would be little to no free oxygen, since it would all be locked up with other elements. And with the planet being a "Giant", I would think that the atmosphere would be rather dense; kinda like Venus, ~755K (900F, 482C) uniformly over the surface.

Not much in the way to entice anyone to hang around very long.

The heat and unstable properties of the surface would make any mining operation "difficult" at best. For a cinematic game, perhaps it would work, but I can't see it being anything other than a planetary oddity IMTU.

 

[robject]

Definitely a nasty place. Y'know, a world close enough to a strong gravity source could remain molten for quite awhile (think Io...).

 

[Major B]

I can imagine setting up a station in orbit around a GG to process fuel.
I can imagine a mining settlement tunneled into a vacuum world.
I can imagine a vacation home floating on a water world.

I cannot imagine why anyone would want to live/work/settle in/on/near molten rock.

I'm definitely stretching here, but since the planet is molten then there might be a reason to be there.

If you could make equipment that would withstand the temperatures, the molten material might be separated into component compounds and the valuable substances could be cooled and shipped in high-density, pure forms.

This is a big speculation, but if there was a substance that was valuable and/or scarce enough to make designing and maintaining the equipment cost-effective, then maybe someone would be crazy enough to give it a try.

But first you have to address the big if: is it possible to design equipment that would survive the environment? After that you can come up with a reason to do it that makes sense IYTU.

 

[Renaissance Man]

How do all minerals get to the surface? They get spewed up from the mantle. Any surface with a high rate of "turnover" on it's crust very likely has some sweet mining opportunities for those with the equipment and daring to go for it.

 

[robject]

I cannot imagine why anyone would want to live/work/settle in/on/near molten rock.

Free hot water?

 

[epicenter00]

This is a big speculation, but if there was a substance that was valuable and/or scarce enough to make designing and maintaining the equipment cost-effective, then maybe someone would be crazy enough to give it a try.

But first you have to address the big if: is it possible to design equipment that would survive the environment? After that you can come up with a reason to do it that makes sense IYTU.

Let's make a system in rough sketches. I'm like anti-gearhead for the most part, so I'll leave the boring numbers up to you blokes:

* The system is a double star system - one where a much more mature solar system has been captured by younger one. The molten giant is still molten partially because of this gravitational tug-of-war that ended millions of years ago, but geologic time moves oh-so-slowly.

* Around the more mature system, there's a nicely habitable planet. A minor human race or non-human sophont lives here. It doesn't really matter too much. For the sake of simplicity with motives and needs we'll say they're Minor human. It doesn't really matter how they arrived there. Their world is pretty easy going for human life (and their imported ecosystem) - the tug of war that created this system probably had nasty effects on the local ecosystem making it unlikely that there were many animals larger than medium-sized dogs, sizing up from the "rodent" sized creatures that would have survived periods of "nuclear winter" and weird bursts of radiation and so on brought on by the two star systems merging.

* They're TL9 or TL10 perhaps. However, they don't have anti-grav or jump drive so they're stuck in their system. Perhaps they lost it during the Long Night or they were never contacted, whatever.

* There's a shortage of resources on their world. In particular, metals are in short supply. Perhaps the naturally occurring metal deposits on their world are poisonously radioactive from solar system's "interesting times." Perhaps their world is just resource-poor (perhaps it's a world that against the odds developed around a Population II star or something). Perhaps their world was strip-mined during the first and second Imperiums and the resources carted off by greedy corporations.

* Naturally, this surly giant in their skies has captured their imagination of these people, and their first explorations was to check out this giant which was usually a darkly clouded sphere, but occasionally a break in the clouds would show a world covered in sullen fires. Probes sent to the world show that there are pools of pre-refined metals that bubble up from deep in the core of the world periodically due to upwelling thermal convection. Such pools never last long, perhaps ranging from a few months to a few decades depending on conditions before the same convection forces that forced them to the surface (or near) draw them under again. The heavier the materials, the faster they sink again. However, the resource situation on their homeworld is grim and worsening.

Technologically primitive doesn't mean stupid, and the world sets its best minds to work on how to make a return from this resource bonanza in their system ... if they can just get around the problems of heat and gravity. (If you use TL12+ tech, it becomes too easy - grav control makes it easy to lift cargoes while cheap fusion power makes it easy to power the grav, I always like to play these situations for drama, which means removing these two tired crutches from Traveller.)

Their solution is desperate and brilliant. Small probes and scoutships constantly scour the atmosphere of the world looking for resource pools brought to the surface, flying high enough so that the immediate results of heat are manageable using conventional means. Once the scouts find a resource spot, a miner (really a collector) is deployed. These ships are heavily shielded with enormous shielded balloons to give them lift and keep the bulk of their hull from the touching the lethal molten oceans (these things would be huge - multiple gas sacs the size of modern aircraft carriers or larger). The ships lower drogues to the surface to collect the materials they find, feeding both waste heat and materials to the airship. But how to keep the ship cool? A system of lasers work as "refrigeration" - converting the waste heat to light and shooting it away from the ship, into the sky.

However, without anti-grav, the cost of getting their cargoes into orbit is very high, almost prohibitive, but their need is great. To make their cooling lasers do double duty, they use a HELL system heavy lifters. Cheap propellants which require a laser to ignite them loft large cargo rockets into orbit with the desperately needed materials. Empty rockets are dropped in with large balloons, their lines caught by the scout flyers and returned to the mothership.

To make things more interesting, perhaps the reason why this world needs resources is that it's balkanized, with several powerful rival power blocs. They need the resources as they're in an arms race on their own world. It's entire possible they bring their rivalries to the molten world as well.

 

[Maladominus]

How do all minerals get to the surface? They get spewed up from the mantle. Any surface with a high rate of "turnover" on it's crust very likely has some sweet mining opportunities for those with the equipment and daring to go for it.

Tons and tons and tons of ferrous metals. And other rare heavy metals. And maybe even Iridium?

I agree with previous posters that IF this dangerous molten giant had no good resources to offer, then it would be nothing more than an oddity. It would look "cool" from space, but no one would want to come near it. Agreed. But if valuable resources were found.... let's say the precious Iridium (isn't the Imperial Throne made of Iridium?) and the Lanthanum necessary to create Jump Drives.... THIS is why I wanted to know the possibilities of exploiting, exploring or landing on its surface.

 

[Plankowner]

Really, the world doesn't have to be much of a giant; just young. It took the Earth about 100 million years to cool down enough for the crust to form and remain stable (and water to start collecting on the surface). Even then, it was still pretty volcanic for several hundred million years after that. The little encounter that created the moon would have basically started the whole process all over again.

So, a young planet, just about any size you want. Since it is young, most of the heavier metals and compounds have not settled into the core yet, they are still sorting themselves out.

As an example, it is POSSIBLE that Epsilon Eridani in our own stellar back yard might have a molten planet or three.

Young worlds will tend to have lots of heavy metals and radioctives around. Radioactives that no longer exist on Earth because they have all decayed away to stable forms.

High risk, but high value too. As stated above, Gravity control and cheap fusion power might make a small number of these types of operations profitable; maybe one every sector or so?

No breathable atmospheres though, you need life for that and molten surfaces are not going to have the water necessary for life. Although, it is possible that the molten mining is taking place at only a specific area of a planet and most of the rest of the planet is much more habitable.

 

[Mithras]

I've got a world on my charts that could fit this bill, BUT, its TL 5.

Any ideas!!! The dirigibles idea caught my eye, hauling huge dredges through molten pools and flying them back to a remote 'safe area'. The dredges would need to be fabricated of off-world materials, though. Or perhaps the population is residual from an abandoned mine. Hell, if the world is such a hell-hole, why not have prisoners working there like in Alien3, and now operations have stopped they are marooned, having killed all the guards.

The world Edininia (Vilis 0403 Edinina E400220-5 ) is Amber zoned too, which would fit the bill. But TL 5 - on a world like that.... I guess they'll have residual and badly worn TL 8 and 9 kit too. Just 'no batteries, nothing much works around here'....!

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

... it is possible that the molten mining is taking place at only a specific area of a planet and most of the rest of the planet is much more habitable.

Sure. Planets undergoing a mantle plume are probably far more common than completely molten ones; and a good-sized one can range in excess of a couple of million square kilometers in scale, if our examples here on Earth are any guide.

The Siberian Traps event of 250 million years ago ultimately engulfed an area the size of Europe. The Deccan Traps of 60-70 million years ago took up over half of the Indian subcontinent, in their time.

The native life on any planet going through a "traps" scenario isn't going to be in a particularly healthy state; but the mining opportunities for offworld business concerns would be pretty wide margin.