What's the difference between unprocessed and unrefined fuel? Wouldn't jump fuel need to be "processed" anyway? The starport codes say nothing about unprocessed fuel, only about refined (A, B, C+) and unrefined (C-, D, possibly E).
Law Level of the Imperium
- Thread starter samuelvss
- Start date
What's the difference between unprocessed and unrefined fuel? Wouldn't jump fuel need to be "processed" anyway? The starport codes say nothing about unprocessed fuel, only about refined (A, B, C+) and unrefined (C-, D, possibly E).
Read the rest of the thread. The "Unprocessed => Unrefined => Refined" flowpath is a IMTU Solution Far Trader has used for years to iron out some of the wrinkles regarding starport codes.
It's a pretty good solution too, IMHO.
I'm pretty sure X simply means that there are no starport facilities at all in most OTU versions of Traveller (though the system used for the Zhodani Core Route (TNE ?)seems to use it only for interdicted systems, with TNE using for "systems not recontacted after Virus" (and interdicte systems))).
None, which is why I used the qualifier 'bog-common basic information'. Which is how I would categorized the information about fuel availability in Imperial starports.
Hans
DangerousThing
SOC-13
However, how often is library information updated in a ship? As I said, in the CT OTU the library was on a disk or tape and it cost money. So many free traders went with somewhat old library data.
Now, if you asked at the star port 1 jump away or perhaps a scout base, then you might get more up-to-date information.
I will admit that IMTU which bears only a small resemblance to the 3I, when a ship docks they connect to the net and download updates and so forth which would include some form of yellow pages (business ads) so hopefully they will get the correct data.
They may get incorrect data for many reasons:
1. The refinery went out of business
2. Somebody hacked the net and inserted false information
3. The ship's AI is going wonky
4. Somebody thought paying for an ad for a fake refinery was a fun idea
However, as a GM, I would not do this except if it were a part of the campaign. Sometimes things like this are a clue, and sometimes little details like this make the game seem more real. Incorrect library data should not be overdone.
And, the characters had better alternatives than using outdated library data anyway if this were important to them. They could ask somebody who has been in that system recently.
-
Jay
Any time from the last time the publisher put out their annual update to the last time the ship arrived at a port.
That was 30 years ago. The OTU has evolved a bit since then. At a minimum I try to keep it at least as technologically advanced as the current real Earth. I'm sure an update costs money, but I'm also sure it's going to be affordable. Besides, as I mentioned above, there's always local information sources. If all I had on my ship was an outdated library data program, I'd consult the local sources instead.
I don't really see any of those four working, except #1 if it happened less than a week ago, but I'm OK with the general principle. "Sorry guys, our only fuel plant blew up yesterday" is fine. But there's a lot of difference between getting information that turns out to be wrong because of a recent act of god and being told that the information is not available.
Hans
Last edited:
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
During (and included in the cost of) annual maintenance, in my opinion, IF the ship has a Library program as part of the software package.
Though localized (nearby systems) updates might also be downloaded as part of the cost and procedure of docking at a reasonably supplied Starport (Class C or better imo).
DangerousThing
SOC-13
Those were examples pulled from actual events, except for the AI, which replaced "Hard drive error." And yes, in my T5 playtest I'm starting, the net is useful.
However, I had a version of this background, which was to be used in a webcomic, that had a *very* strong limitations on networking speed and processing power. This was because of an event not altogether unsimilar to the virus which I had never heard of at that point.
Updating was be done via disks in that background.
And one problem with the official library data is that it might take data from the "census" that the Scouts complete every twenty years. My characters generally prefer to relay on people for details like that.
-
Jay
It's pretty much described as such as far back as CT. IIRC, the section in MT dealing communication had a specific channel devoted to library data.
The questions then becomes who updates the updates, how often are those updates made, and how quickly are they disseminated?
And the answers to all those questions could very well depend on how important the system is the various Powers That Be...
Another question in this particular context is how often the fuel options in any given starport changes? That is, how often does it matter that this particular information is a few years out of date?
Hans
I go with the subscription, which is a nominal fee. There is a hierarchy of information available at any given node; the highest level in that hierarchy for open-source information for intersellar dissemination is that upon which interstellar travel decisions will be made.
IMTU, there are certain "bits" of information, that because of their small size, and importance, are actually transmitted as metadata through the identification transponders of all imperial starships. These are in essence security alerts and changes in port status. The various aspects of a port's rating are relevant, and projected fuel availability is one of those. These are not coded as simply binary, but in scale, based on historical data.
This is all essentially transparent to the user; the news that makes it into the Xboat network is dessiminated via in system data links, which likewise update a ship's library program. Much like the internet, the library will have information of varying ages, but it is constantly being updated. This is a limited process, because the Xboats and Model/1's all have limited capacity, such that limited stories are sent weekly. News is managed one way, and reference data another, such that news will, if not set otherwise, automatically purge based on age.
Several X-boats could be sent at once, couldn't they? Wouldn't a world be able to just send out whatever amount of X-boats are needed?
CT XBoats have a Model/4 and (if I've read the deck plans correctly) at least 5 Dtons of extra data storage. I would expect that over the years the Xboat service has been operating, this has been found to be the 'normal traffic plus a bit of overhead' space required. If more data needs to be sent then it waits for the next X-boat.samuelvss said:
It's like Usenet, except that it uses spaceships instead of wires.
No, the IISS runs the X-Boats, not individual worlds, and there is one X-Boat waiting for each out system jump.
Drifting the thread further off topic.
I seem to recall that I read somewhere that the TAS maintained a library data system. If that is correct, then I would assume that the TAS data is more user driven (think of a Wiki). Updates would take place when a member visits the TAS facilty, possibly adds notes about the last place visited, and grabs the latest update tape.
"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with tapes."
As for 'how often is the Library Data updated?
I'd have a gard time imagining anything as significant as changes to the Starport *not* being put out on the Notices to Spacers...
Well all it takes is a bit of war to throw all the data out the window. What starport level and fuel availability do you think Louzy had after the zhodani siege was broken in the Fifth Frontier War?
Another question is how much fuel can be provided at one time (storage level) at what rate can it be replenished, and where is it? (downport or highport)
I've been doing a lot of World Tamer's Handbook style colony development, and it takes a good bit of power infrastructure to support a refuelling operation for even 1 10,000 ton J1 ship a month. I'd give a monthly output at low stellar tech levels of .1 Dt of LH2 per person per month. Downport availability is easy, delivering that fuel to orbit needs more support for maintaining the extra orbital transportation capitol.
IMTU library updates are as recent as the last ship that entered the system with data from the relevant system. So, in frontier sectors that can be quite some time. If there is no x-boat or inter system commerce between to systems then the most recent updates would likely take the full time for a trade route to be traversed or worse. In more 'civilized' regions its usually within a jump-week.
But, there is also the issue of the nature of the source - official, or not. Ex: Free traders visiting class C and below starports may not bother with any verification of the data they get from a system. Official data from TAS and Scout Surveys is generally going to be very dated in areas where it is most needed.
In RL, I've travelled via car over a large part of the continental U.S. Freeways often have official signage maintained by tax monies indicating the facilities an exit offers. Plenty of times (that's count - not percentage) I've encountered signs with no fuel symbols when the gas stations not only existed, but were visible from the road (sometimes brand new, but often not). Likewise, though less frequently (but more annoyingly), I've taken an exit indicating gas station availability and there was no station. Sometimes closed, sometimes not yet or never opened, and several times just never existed...
In the case of of Traveller - there is also the possibility that a system officially falsely advertises the nature of the available fuel.
'Yep, we have refined fuel Capt'n - just like that there guide says. But, you see, the thing is, only during the BlueDoe migration season... feds don't let us fire up the 'fineries when them 'Doe's is here abouts. Be just a couple more month's I rec'n they be leav'n...'
or
'Sure, we stock unrefined fuel, but we done sold all that out to the Navy boys. They got a contract with us, you see. Now, I know there's water all about - but don't go getting no notions on free fueling. You can't go contaminating that - 'agnst the law, you know. New statute - just pasted two moons back. My uncle and my cousin just got on the commission - so I should know. We got plenty of refined, though, if your tanks be empty... even got discounts if you restock your food stuffs with Bets' fare. She's right past the customs shack on your portside...'
But, there is also the issue of the nature of the source - official, or not. Ex: Free traders visiting class C and below starports may not bother with any verification of the data they get from a system. Official data from TAS and Scout Surveys is generally going to be very dated in areas where it is most needed.
In RL, I've travelled via car over a large part of the continental U.S. Freeways often have official signage maintained by tax monies indicating the facilities an exit offers. Plenty of times (that's count - not percentage) I've encountered signs with no fuel symbols when the gas stations not only existed, but were visible from the road (sometimes brand new, but often not). Likewise, though less frequently (but more annoyingly), I've taken an exit indicating gas station availability and there was no station. Sometimes closed, sometimes not yet or never opened, and several times just never existed...
In the case of of Traveller - there is also the possibility that a system officially falsely advertises the nature of the available fuel.
'Yep, we have refined fuel Capt'n - just like that there guide says. But, you see, the thing is, only during the BlueDoe migration season... feds don't let us fire up the 'fineries when them 'Doe's is here abouts. Be just a couple more month's I rec'n they be leav'n...'
or
'Sure, we stock unrefined fuel, but we done sold all that out to the Navy boys. They got a contract with us, you see. Now, I know there's water all about - but don't go getting no notions on free fueling. You can't go contaminating that - 'agnst the law, you know. New statute - just pasted two moons back. My uncle and my cousin just got on the commission - so I should know. We got plenty of refined, though, if your tanks be empty... even got discounts if you restock your food stuffs with Bets' fare. She's right past the customs shack on your portside...'
Or there could be refined fuel in system, just not at the starport. Somebody could be running a Fuelstar* station out by the local GG or close to the planet but just outside it enough to avoid taxes.
*IMTU Fuelstar is the name of a fuel station megacorp with refueling stations even in empty hexes.
*IMTU Fuelstar is the name of a fuel station megacorp with refueling stations even in empty hexes.
