Law and Communication

[rancke]

IIRC, the low passage is what is assured on the repatriation bonds most mercenary units take as insurance they could go out the planet if all goes wrong. I guess if this is accepted as a standard mode for mercenaries, it could as wll be an accepted mode for taken fugitives.

It could, but then again, it need not be the case. No one forces anyone to become a mercenary; no one forces a mercenary to accept a job with the standard repatriation bond; no one forces a mercenary to activate his repatriation bond. At least not legally. So there's no reason to assume that a law against forcing anyone to enter low berth would prevent repatriation bonds that only pay for low passage.

Of course they could go with better accomodations if they want so and assume the cost, but if taken by policial budget, I guess they would go no better than low passage.

I don't think any law enforcement organisation would pay for anything more than it was legally required to. The question is what the legal requirements were. One could easily justify an Imperial edict that directly forbade it (especially if the edict is a relic of the days when the Imperium was TL12, never rescinded, never updated). I don't think that would be a good idea, though. Or rather, best of both worlds, have a vaguely worded edict that leaves it to the individual duchy to define what the edict means by "safely", allowing an author or a referee to have Imperial law that says one thing in one duchy and another thing in another duchy and nothing one way or the other in a third.

Also, I very much doubt that there would be an edict that mandated that prisoners MUST be transported in low berths, so a world with a comprehensive bill of rights might insist on a prohibition against such a mode of transportation in its extradition treaties.

If (as in MT) the true risk of low berth is quite low, then there will be less legal objections to it. If (as in CT) the risk is higher, it may even be seen by most as a deterrent for fleeing the world where you did your crime.

My take of the lethality of low berths is that it's practically risk-free (far below the resolution of the game rules) as long as there's competent medical supervision of the process; the CT rules I use for ham-handed medical incompetent free trader med-techs shipped to comply with manning requirements. However, there are lesser consequences possible, such as a rare debilitating "low berth syndrome" that may all but incapacitate a low passenger and linger for weeks. That, combined with urban myths about the Low Lottery and reports of what low berth deaths do result from faulty treatment being blown up by the media, results in many groundhuggers believing that low berth is dangerous.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Given the death rate for commercial crab fishing off Alaska runs to about 1 per 1500 people per week*, the MT presumable rate of 1:400 (ignoring the effects of injuries themselves), or about 1:300 per freeze...

So, low berths are 3.7-5x the death rate of the most dangerous civilian employment available IRL...

Unless you accept the interpretation that you can't aggravate the mishap to 3d on a natural 2. In which case, it drops well below crab fishing season... because maximum 3D damage is 18, that means you can't kill Sammy 7's, but Sally 6's might die... And Granny Ones can die more than half the time from even a superficial mishap.

-=-=-=-=-=-​

* based upon 250 boats working with 6 bodies apiece on average, and 1 death per week of open crab season before the 2005-2006 transition to allotments instead of windows. Note that the per-year rates are actually only about 8-10 per 1500... but the old windows were a total of about 8 weeks per year, tho' most of the guys spent closer to 20 weeks "working."

Deaths are down since the changeover, but there's also only 90 boats, with crews of about 9 each, for only about 100 guys. And the season is about the same overall length, as they share info more now than they used to, and work the guys almost as hard, in order to reduce fuel costs.

 

[Whipsnade]

(1) What prevents someone from committing murder, hopping a ship to the next system and then disappearing into the masses?

The planet's own extrality line with the starport will "prevent" a murderer from fleeing the jurisdiction and the amount of that "prevention" is going to be closely linked to just how seriously the planet enforces that extrality line.

(2) To prevent this a communication grid of sorts is needed first. I envision a distributed, encrypted, verifying from multiple sources for of packet network. I.e., each ship leaving port is given a piece of information. This information packet is accumulated at the next port of call and modified.

Who's going to pay for all this? Who's going to provide the equipment, maintenance, and techs needed for the system, especially on a world like Backwater-III where the port is a cleared piece of bedrock, fuel tanks are a nearby lake, and the occasional trapper swings by once a month?

The individual ship can't tamper with it...

Sure they can't. No one can queer the packet on the ground either or feed the system false information. And everyone is going to agree on just what constitutes a murder or extraditable crime, so a warrant from Hell Hole-IX regarding the capital crime of square dancing is going to be automatically honored on New EU-II.

And pixies make the flowers grow too.

This could be augmented with some kind of message torpedoes.

Yeah, because torpedoes can't jump and a mechanical device is so much cheaper and/or dependable than those pesky radio waves.

(3) The whole system breaks a bit when crossing over into different government boundaries.

Did you ever stop to think that the Imperium is rife with different government boundaries? Something like over eleven thousand different government boundaries?

Only an extremely small body of law is unitary within the Imperium and there are plenty of Imperial member worlds on which even local law isn't unitary.

It's a key point to the campaign I'm going to run.

That's troubling to hear. You need to reexamine the Third Imperium. You need to shed all your 21st Century Western liberal democratic preconceptions. You need to drop all assumptions based on the internet or cellphones or even telegraphs and begin trying to understand just what "one week per jump" means for to communications.

 

[McPerth]

It could, but then again, it need not be the case. No one forces anyone to become a mercenary; no one forces a mercenary to accept a job with the standard repatriation bond; no one forces a mercenary to activate his repatriation bond. At least not legally. So there's no reason to assume that a law against forcing anyone to enter low berth would prevent repatriation bonds that only pay for low passage.

Many people will argue that neither is anybody forced to commit crime, nor to flee justice.

So, if the low berth is seen as enough for men who have not commited any crime (sic), albeit they accept it voluntarely as last resort, it will be enough for anyone that has commited a serious crime (if not the case extradition would not be even thought about) and also accepted the risk while fleeing outsystem.

Also, I very much doubt that there would be an edict that mandated that prisoners MUST be transported in low berths, so a world with a comprehensive bill of rights might insist on a prohibition against such a mode of transportation in its extradition treaties.

Of course any system (or government in balkanized worlds) can have any restrictions it wants to extradition, but, if so, they better don't count on their own fugitives to be extradited to them...

 

[Spinward Scout]

You need to shed all your 21st Century Western liberal democratic preconceptions.

Politically ticked off today, are ya?

It's just a game.

 

[Dragoner]

Politically ticked off today, are ya?

It's just a game.

There definitely comes a point when it's TMI about other people's games, like in one discussion I was told: "Gauss Rifles are mostly used for shooting unarmored people"...say what?

I hate to tell it to the grognards, but as a long time player not just GM, just about every single GM's vision of the OTU and how things should be is different; it is a game, and you have to learn how to play it.

 

[rancke]

Many people will argue that neither is anybody forced to commit crime, nor to flee justice.

Only if they didn't realize that such an argument was entirely irrelevant, so you're right; many people would argue thus.

So, if the low berth is seen as enough for men who have not commited any crime (sic), albeit they accept it voluntarely as last resort, it will be enough for anyone that has commited a serious crime (if not the case extradition would not be even thought about) and also accepted the risk while fleeing outsystem.

Try reading my argument again. If a prohibition against forcing people into low berths against their will existed, mercenary repatriation bonds could be argued not to involve forcing people to enter low berths. Therefore, the existence of repatriation bonds do not prove that no such prohibition exists.

Peoples' attitudes towards mercenaries and suspects and convicts don't come into the argument at all.

Of course any system (or government in balkanized worlds) can have any restrictions it wants to extradition, but, if so, they better don't count on their own fugitives to be extradited to them...

Depends on how much the other world wants its own fugitives back. If it's badly enough, the treaty will be signed and decent transportation provided.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Politically ticked off today, are ya?

It's just a game.

"It's just a game" is a cop-out. And one that's just as rude, if not more so, than pointing out someone's mired their view of the 3I inside the western liberal democracy viewpoint...

If one is looking at trying to grasp the impact of the setting, one DOES need to drop the western lib-dem approach... because the setting can't support that kind of government, at least not above the system level.

The biggest problem people have coming to grips with Traveller has always been the impact of "one week per jump" coupled with "FTL Commo is by courier."

It makes representational government far less representational, it makes autonomy of local governments far more important and far more likely, and it makes extradition far harder.

Keep in mind: extradition between US states takes a couple weeks to work out with effectively instant communications. Now, each call is instead a letter and takes at least a week.

Assuming no snafus, it's at least 4 weeks to get someone back... from one jump away. And presuming that he can be shipped low passage, KCr1 to ship him. Probably plus KCr8 for a transport officer, and KCr8 again to get the transport officer back. Not cheap.

 

[CyberGarp]

Sure they can't. No one can queer the packet on the ground either or feed the system false information.

This is a major concern for the NSA today; the transmission of information, without tampering. They have a very good solution, and use it daily. If I give you an encrypted stream of data and you change one byte, the whole thing gets thrown out. The whole idea of hard crypto is a game of cat and mouse. Sure someone might corrupt a single stream, but the point was multiple redundancy and corroboration from multiple sources.

Peter Wayner wrote a wonderful book on applying this to databases, "Translucent Databases". That said, then there are instances like where the USA set it's nuclear launch code to "000000" for 30 years. Reminds me of Space Balls.

And everyone is going to agree on just what constitutes a murder or extraditable crime, so a warrant from Hell Hole-IX regarding the capital crime of square dancing is going to be automatically honored on New EU-II.

And pixies make the flowers grow too.

Sure. That's human nature. Happens today, people are convicted of crimes in Iran, they live in Switzerland and it makes some press and that's about it. However, you piss the right group off--and you get extradited from Britain for torrenting. It's a complete mess. I fully believe this part of human nature will continue into any galactic imperium.

What system has pixies? :devil:

Yeah, because torpedoes can't jump and a mechanical device is so much cheaper and/or dependable than those pesky radio waves.

Radio waves are limited by speed of light, jumps are not. It would make sense for communication purposes to have ships convey information for a fee, and where that wasn't possible some smallest unmanned ship capable of jump would be used. The information stream has to be reliable, and hence must utilize crypto.

Or not, it's your universe.

Did you ever stop to think that the Imperium is rife with different government boundaries? Something like over eleven thousand different government boundaries?

Only an extremely small body of law is unitary within the Imperium and there are plenty of Imperial member worlds on which even local law isn't unitary.

Under this viewpoint why bother having an Imperium at all? Sounds like chaos reins supreme. Reputation gets too hot, it's just a Jump-1 from a clean slate. I just don't buy it. An Imperium represents a huge infrastructure, that communicates, miscommunicates, misfiles, grinds people under and maintains some level of governance over that mass of systems. Such a huge structure cannot exist without the ability to flex it's muscle over citizens, and that requires coordination and communication. I was proposing a mesh-net style encrypted communication grid--using jump ships as the carrier.

I picture it like the early colonial days, when Britain, France, Spain and the Dutch all raced to create colonies. These colonies were under far away rule, and left mostly to themselves--as long as trade flowed. A murderer could flee to S. America, but a letter was sure to eventually follow.

That's troubling to hear. You need to reexamine the Third Imperium. You need to shed all your 21st Century Western liberal democratic preconceptions. You need to drop all assumptions based on the internet or cellphones or even telegraphs and begin trying to understand just what "one week per jump" means for to communications.

Eh? Where did the '21st Century Western liberal democratic' come from?

I'm an engineer who has worked contracts on encrypted communication protocols, and I'm talking about the logistics or managing an empire with a "one week per jump". That's the point of this this thread.

That said I post the following general rules I see:

Encryption has a TL associated with it. Any encryption can be broken and read by one higher TL. Any encryption can be tampered with given two higher TL. A man in the middle attack is always possible.

I would envision, there is a corporation that produces most units at the highest TL, and these are the commonly distributed ones for use in mass communication by the Imperium. However, they may have planted backdoors in everything for their own uses. That could be a plot hook in and of itself.

 

[Hyphen]

Who's going to pay for all this?
Sure they can't. No one can queer the packet on the ground either or feed the system false information.
And pixies make the flowers grow too.
Did you ever stop to think that the Imperium is rife with different government boundaries?
You need to shed all your 21st Century Western liberal democratic preconceptions.
[snip snip etc]

Bill, stop being a cranky ol' grognard (spoken as one to another)!!

He can do what he likes in his TU, that's why one of the personal profile digits is about how monolithic you see the Imperium being.

I have to admit falling more in line with what you and Hans are saying - having worked in some monolithic govt depts, I can say that some things which may sound like a Good Thing^TM never get a guernsey. And its only sometimes due to incompetence; mostly its a resourcing issue - either not enough time or not enough money.

Pursuing a criminal off-planet falls under the too expensive basket. In addition, the Imperium usually has no jurisdiction! Unless it's a High Justice crime, I don't think the Imperium would be interested. That's not to say that a repressive (high Law Level) planetary govt would be uninterested - I would be _expecting_ them to hire bounty hunters! Of course, the crime on one world may not be a crime on another, so a hunter may have to use less-than-legal means (on the target world, in any case) to capture, restrain & transport their target.

All of which leads to...

It's just a game.

Exactly! Although I see this, perhaps, a bit more subtly than Will's "cop-out" remark. To me, the "game" perspective asks "what do YOU want in your game?" If you want a free-wheeling, Wild West frontier where browncoats^k^k^k sorry, PC's can live on the edge, where the Imperium is apathetic and bounty hunters thrive, and where the nearest law is the local baron who needs persuadin' or the Imperial Marshall in his custom pursuit ship, go for it! If you want a tightly-knit Imperium, where the crims are pretty much tied down and can't get away with anything, that's your call. Just remember, it's sauce for the goose: the same rules should apply to the PCs!

Sit down and think about your campaign and your players. (I know I did when creating my Police and MoJ chargen rules!) If they've been used to a fantasy game where it's OK to go and slaughter whole bunches of local monsters, they'll chafe at an overly-restrictive environment. If they're used to complete oversight from The Computer (who Is Your Friend), it may seem like a luxury. (Keep Your Laser Handy! )

Under this viewpoint why bother having an Imperium at all? Sounds like chaos reins supreme.

Yep! Rule of men, not laws. As long as it doesn't hinder trade - which is why the _Imperium_ pursues criminals who happen to be pirates, but for other matters you'll have to convince the local nobility or bureaucracy to help. Which leads to ROLE-PLAYING.

Look, a lot of the "feel" of your game comes down to what's gonna be FUN! Once you decide on that, then all this discussion (which is really only about the background "chrome") falls into perspective.

What system has pixies? :devil:

Actually, that'd be Pixie (SM 1903, A100103-D), where the inhabitants of the ephemeral naval base call themselves "pixies" - oh! I see what you mean... (g, d & r)

(And the capital crime is "square dancing in an Octagonal room". Actually that's probably treasonous - a High Justice crime. Break out that gruff Imperial Marshal... "Boy! Ah say boy! do-dah, do-dah"... oh, STOP! )

(Y'know, I'll bet these discussions ain't got nuthin' on the ones they used to have within GDW! Dave Nilsen said "it really was a workshop", with people contributing all sorts of left-field ideas. Can you imagine the first time someone said, "I want to blow up the Imperium!" ("You want to do WHAT??!! But I've just chromed Antares...!"))

 

[rancke]

Yep! Rule of men, not laws.

Even if this slogan actually means something, it doesn't mean that there are no laws; it just means that there are men (or one man) who are above them. Which, incidentally, does not really seem to apply much to an Imperium where Imperial nobles explicitly are said to have no special priveledges before the law).

The Emperor is the font of law. Which means that in theory he can change the law on a whim. In practice, he's unlikely to do so capriciously (and if he does, he's liable to wind up with a bullet in the brain). So for all practical purposes the Imperium is as well furnished with laws as any society with rule of law not of men.

I've always believed that dukes made up a lot of the law of their respective duchies, but no more so than royal governors of European empires did, and under similar restrictions of broad guidelines, rules and regulations, and laws promulgated by the central government.


Hans

 

[Dragoner]

Nobles are also said to have little function as well; the Imperium seems to use positional authority, not rank authority. Then considering the size of the Imperium, think of it as monolithic in any way is rather ridiculous.

 

[Otto Harkaman]

but then there is the Zhodani and why has the Imperium turned its back on achieving mental evolution?

:toast:

 

[Dragoner]

Because Sufi mysticism isn't popular in the Imperium?

Psionics is "a science through which one can know how to travel into the presence of the Divine, purify one's inner self from filth, and beautify it with a variety of praiseworthy traits."


The Thought Police would get you anyways.

 

[Otto Harkaman]

The Thought Police would get you anyways.

I was thinking of Lensmen

 

[aramis]

Nobles are also said to have little function as well; the Imperium seems to use positional authority, not rank authority. Then considering the size of the Imperium, think of it as monolithic in any way is rather ridiculous.

Certain traits are inherent in the organizational structure, especially when combined with the time-lag issues.

These include the non-monolithic nature of the local structure, the needed authority level for those in various positions (noting that subsector dukes seem to be just about totally nerfed by JTAS 14), and that there is a top-down authoritarianism that ensures enforcement of certain crimes.

There's strong implication of a heavy handed dose of the Tarkin doctrine, too. ("Fear will keep the local systems in line.")

Further, it's implied that the Navy and Marine training standards are pretty uniform throughout the 3I, and that they tend to get moved around a good bit. This, too, will help keep cultural drift down.

There is a strong tendency in local worlds (due to the world generation system) to have authoritarian governments dominant. (Per capita, they are way out of whack...) Democracy is rare, and tends to be smaller worlds.

Grabbing the pop 9 and 10 worlds in the marches, and their gov and law codes...:
The Gov'ts (# @ gov : pop in US Billions... xE9)
2@3: 16B - Self Perpetuating Oligarchy (two worlds, Low and No law - not standard generation)
1@4: _8B Representative Democracy
1@6: _3B Captive
4@7: 35B Balkanized
7@8: 63B Civil Service Bureacracy
4@9: 23B Impersonal Bureaucracy
3@A: 35B Charismatic Dictator
2@B: 37B Non-Charismatic Dictator
3@C: 15B Religious Dictatorship
1@D: _4B Religious Autocracy

Out of 256 billion Imperials (roughly) in the Marches.
over 86 billion live under bureaucracies - about 33.6%
Over 87 billion live under dictatorships - right about 34.0%
And these 26 worlds comprise 223 Billion of those 256 Billion people, 87.1% of the imperials in the marches.

Total democratic imperials in the marches (Gov's 2 & 4)...
0.1B direct democracies under 0.1%
9.5B representative democracies 3.7%

68M Imperials in the marches live on worlds with law level 9+; 51B of them live at law level A+. Another 59B live at Law 8...

We CAN start to draw some conclusions: the average imperial citizen is disenfranchised, and has little to no personal freedoms. Over a 3rd of them have daily or more contact with law enforcement. (3 checks per day, 8- 26/36, 72%, expectation of 2 contacts per day.)
of the 87% on the "big pop worlds", the average law level (including the illegal Gov 3's) is 6.9...

The Big Imperial Worlds:
P G L People
9 3 0 8,000,000,000
9 3 4 8,000,000,000
9 4 3 8,000,000,000
9 6 5 3,000,000,000
9 7 4 2,000,000,000
9 7 5 6,000,000,000
9 7 7 7,000,000,000
A 7 4 20,000,000,000
9 8 4 8,000,000,000
9 8 6 8,000,000,000
9 8 7 2,000,000,000
9 8 8 6,000,000,000
9 8 8 9,000,000,000
A 8 7 20,000,000,000
A 8 8 10,000,000,000
9 9 8 3,000,000,000
9 9 9 6,000,000,000
9 9 C 4,000,000,000
A 9 6 10,000,000,000
9 A 9 3,000,000,000
9 A B 2,000,000,000
A A 8 30,000,000,000
9 B 9 7,000,000,000
A B D 30,000,000,000
9 C A 3,000,000,000
9 C C 2,000,000,000
A C 7 10,000,000,000
9 D F 4,000,000,000
Data from Travellermap.com.

 

[MCEvans]

I can see some great adventure; the group as cut rate bounty hunters, everything goes wrong, they finally get their guy and get back to the starport to book on a subsidized liner and the company says they ALL have to take low berths.

Mid-jump they awakened by the steward and purser: "I don't want to alarm you, but your prisoner has escaped and someone has broken into the ships locker...."

My only questions are how and who is left? :devil:

Maybe a "free" ship?

 

[rancke]

There is a strong tendency in local worlds (due to the world generation system) to have authoritarian governments dominant.

And right there is the big problem with your analysis (and not just yours, any analysis based on worlds generated randomly by the world generation system). Nothing about these population figures are a result of Imperial influence. Those figures would have been the same if the worlds had belonged to the Solomani Confederation, the Zhodani Consulate, or the Grand Duchy of Regina, or if they'd all been non-aligned.

This is, IMO, a much bigger flaw in the world generation system than impossible physical stats and unbelievable combinations[*]: The system takes no account of context; each world is generated in complete isolation from its neighbors and the history of the region. It makes no difference if the region was settled last year or 10,000 years ago, the population distribution is identical. (I believe that a modification to TL (?) was imposed when the Solomani Rim data was generated, but as far as I know nothing else of the kind has ever been done. (Except when I wrote up my various historical settings (My JTAS Online articles about The Sacnoth Dominate, The Five States, and the Outrim Frontier all had UWPs with social stats that I rather laboriously figured out from the historical context)).

[*] (Which is NOT meant to indicate that those problems are not serious.​

Anyway, back to the subject, if any conclusion can be drawn from the government figures, it's that the Imperium has practically no influence on the governments of its member worlds. As is also the case with every other interstellar government in Charted Space of which I am aware.


Hans

 

[aramis]

And right there is the big problem with your analysis (and not just yours, any analysis based on worlds generated randomly by the world generation system). Nothing about these population figures are a result of Imperial influence. Those figures would have been the same if the worlds had belonged to the Solomani Confederation, the Zhodani Consulate, or the Grand Duchy of Regina, or if they'd all been non-aligned.

This is, IMO, a much bigger flaw in the world generation system than impossible physical stats and unbelievable combinations[*]: The system takes no account of context; each world is generated in complete isolation from its neighbors and the history of the region. It makes no difference if the region was settled last year or 10,000 years ago, the population distribution is identical. (I believe that a modification to TL (?) was imposed when the Solomani Rim data was generated, but as far as I know nothing else of the kind has ever been done. (Except when I wrote up my various historical settings (My JTAS Online articles about The Sacnoth Dominate, The Five States, and the Outrim Frontier all had UWPs with social stats that I rather laboriously figured out from the historical context)).

[*] (Which is NOT meant to indicate that those problems are not serious.​

Anyway, back to the subject, if any conclusion can be drawn from the government figures, it's that the Imperium has practically no influence on the governments of its member worlds. As is also the case with every other interstellar government in Charted Space of which I am aware.


Hans

Once again, Hans, you indicate a grievous lack of knowledge of CT RULES.
AM 1 Aslan has wholly different government generation mechanic, and LL isn't tied to Government. Page 25.
AM 2 K'Kree has a different mechanic for Government and law, and law isn't affected by government.
AM 3 Vargr adds an increased chance of balkaniation; 2d+pop for 16+; if not balkanized there, then roll Gov and Law normally.
AM4 Zhodani generates normally, but interprets Law Level differently for non-Zhodani; Further, sets minimum TL for populations - Pop/Gov/Law go to 000 if not met.
AM5 Droyne has different pop, gov, and law gen.
AM6 Solomani is standard gen, but cap TL at 14, not 15.
AM7 Hiver is yet another unique mode of government gen, and LL is VERY different. Human words there still use Hiver government types.
AM8 doesn't specify how they are generated; lists all known mainworlds.

Several include restrictions on size 1 atmospheres and hydrographics.

 

[rancke]

Once again, Hans, you indicate a grievous lack of knowledge of CT RULES.

No, I don't. I may not by completely up on all of them, and I do ignore a few minor details in order to make a point, but calling that small exaggeration for effect grievious is completely overblown.

AM 1 Aslan has wholly different government generation mechanic, and LL isn't tied to Government. Page 25.
AM 2 K'Kree has a different mechanic for Government and law, and law isn't affected by government.
AM 3 Vargr adds an increased chance of balkaniation; 2d+pop for 16+; if not balkanized there, then roll Gov and Law normally.
AM5 Droyne has different pop, gov, and law gen.
AM7 Hiver is yet another unique mode of government gen, and LL is VERY different. Human words there still use Hiver government types.

Could that possibly be the reason why I din't use Aslan, K'Kree, Vargr, Droyne, and Hiver interstellar governments in my list? I do believe it could!

AM4 Zhodani generates normally, but interprets Law Level differently for non-Zhodani; Further, sets minimum TL for populations - Pop/Gov/Law go to 000 if not met.
AM6 Solomani is standard gen, but cap TL at 14, not 15.

Here you have a minor point. I should have said that the figures would have been almost the same. I did, intentionally, not say that they would have been exactly the same (which they would have been if it had been any human interstellar government OTHER than the Confederation and the Consulate).

So much for my first paragraph. Why quote my second and third paragraph and then ignore them? I take it that you can't disagree with my point about the world generation system failing to take context such as history of the region and neighboring worlds into consideration?


Hans