Landgrab - Strouden - Spinward Marches 2327

[Redcap]

Hans - you have way, way, waaaaaay too much time on your hands

Oh, and good luck with the projects

I've started on the amended/changed/stuffitimwritingitfromscratch timeline for Strouden already (started last night); I'll flesh it out a little over the next couple of days (early shifts this week, darn it).

Sneak preview will, of course, be here, once done

Roger

 

[Redcap]

OK, initial re-write up, other pages attended to that required amendments due to the re-write. See new History page.

Comments invited, before I get writing too far and have to start again

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Redcap:
OK, initial re-write up, other pages attended to that required amendments due to the re-write. See new History page.

Comments invited, before I get writing too far and have to start again

I hope you're aware that you wouldn't have to start again if you didn't want to even if Marc Miller published "The Authoritative History of Strouden" tomorrow. Your TU is your TU.

That said, I do have some suggestions.

Two canonical statements says that

1) Major inroads in settling the Spinward Marches had been made by 200 [TB:149], and

2) that the major Imperial expansion and settlement of the Spinward Marches took place between 200 and 400 [TD18:23].

The way I reconcile the two statements is to say that up until 200, the official Imperial interest in the area on the other side of those Vargr states in Corridor was limited. The major activity was down to private and commercial interests. Basically, people who wanted to get AWAY from the Imperium, and corporations that wanted to dig up stuff and cart it back to Capital.

Sure, there were some Scouts, because it was their job to map and survey, and there were some IN warships, because it was their job to protect megacorporate shipping (especially that of Zhunasthu Enterprises ), but they were underfunded and understrength.

My suggestion would be that Strouden was settled during the Pacification Campaigns, either by a group of utopians fleeing the Imperium or by a group of exiles transported there by the IN in the aftermath of one such campaign (Transportation was one way the Imperium dealt with the losers of the campaigns). Strouden is just the kind of world for something like this, a decent world that would have been mentioned in reports by Scouts and merchants when they returned to the Imperial Core. So a colony expedition could have targeted it or some Imperial Admiral could have ordered that the exiles be dumped there just because he'd heard about the place.

Or you could do both. In my work on Regina, I had a religious group settle it in 75 because they had heard about it, and I had the IN dump four different groups on exiles from 113 to 117 (more than any other world in the Marches got), simply because Regina had been successful enough to be talked about. So Strouden could have been the target of a colony expedition (or more than one) and get a load of exiles a bit later. All prime fodder for conflict and strife. You could have centuries of balkanization before Strouden was unified.

Once established, Strouden's position on the trade route to the Sword Worlds would make it a natural stopover for merchants and give it a head start on other such colonies when it came to growth and development.

About first contact: The Sword Worlds were first contacted by the Scouts in 53. The first major trade route was established by Sharurshid in 73. (And the third canonical 'first contact', in 147, was the establishmment of diplomatic relationships that were broken off during the Gram-Sacnoth War in 100).

My take, based on the first 'first contact' date (53), is that the Scouts sent off four Scout Cruisers in 53 to do a preliminary survey of the Marches.

That crack you made about me having too much time on my hands? You're right. I've actually worked out the dates that the ship that did the 4th Quadrant (the Explorer Class Scout Cruiser Girga Giirgi) visited each world...

I don't have the map with me here, but if you like, I'll look it up when I get home.

(And, yes, some day I plan to map out the first contact dates of the other three ships. )


Hans

 

[Redcap]

Originally posted by rancke:
I hope you're aware that you wouldn't have to start again if you didn't want to even if Marc Miller published "The Authoritative History of Strouden" tomorrow. Your TU is your TU.

Good point, well presented, and thoroughly taken on-board!

That said, I do have some suggestions.

Two canonical statements says that

1) Major inroads in settling the Spinward Marches had been made by 200 [TB:149], and

2) that the major Imperial expansion and settlement of the Spinward Marches took place between 200 and 400 [TD18:23].

The way I reconcile the two statements is to say that up until 200, the official Imperial interest in the area on the other side of those Vargr states in Corridor was limited. The major activity was down to private and commercial interests. Basically, people who wanted to get AWAY from the Imperium, and corporations that wanted to dig up stuff and cart it back to Capital.

Sure, there were some Scouts, because it was their job to map and survey, and there were some IN warships, because it was their job to protect megacorporate shipping (especially that of Zhunasthu Enterprises ), but they were underfunded and understrength.

Agreed - all counts

My suggestion would be that Strouden was settled during the Pacification Campaigns, either by a group of utopians fleeing the Imperium or by a group of exiles transported there by the IN in the aftermath of one such campaign (Transportation was one way the Imperium dealt with the losers of the campaigns). Strouden is just the kind of world for something like this, a decent world that would have been mentioned in reports by Scouts and merchants when they returned to the Imperial Core. So a colony expedition could have targeted it or some Imperial Admiral could have ordered that the exiles be dumped there just because he'd heard about the place.

Interesting; now what I've been envisioning for Strouden, but intereesting none the less.

Or you could do both. In my work on Regina, I had a religious group settle it in 75 because they had heard about it, and I had the IN dump four different groups on exiles from 113 to 117 (more than any other world in the Marches got), simply because Regina had been successful enough to be talked about. So Strouden could have been the target of a colony expedition (or more than one) and get a load of exiles a bit later. All prime fodder for conflict and strife. You could have centuries of balkanization before Strouden was unified.

Once established, Strouden's position on the trade route to the Sword Worlds would make it a natural stopover for merchants and give it a head start on other such colonies when it came to growth and development.

LOL - both?! I'll take idea that under advisement (but see below)!

My current thinking is that the present (1115 CT/GT timeline) Strouden is an outgrowth of the Corporate enclave that grew around the initial mining activities of LSP, following their licence from the Imperium to mine Zuchai Crystals there. The rationalé is that the colony grew initially slowly, but with gathering pace, to service the needs of at first, LSP with third-party materials and services (corporate outsourcing is current enough in the real word, why should LSP be any different if it reduces costs - corporate bottom lines are always important to the shareholders!), then to service the requirements and needs of the third parties themselves. Along the way, the government formed, and became all-encompassing in the way it runs the planet.

My tentative thinking is that while initial non-LSP enclaves would have been on the surface, as the caverns were discovered, some would move underground, grow, and require more room, requiring both natural and artificial cavern space to be found, hance the slow-ish expansion. Your idea on dropping in involuntary colonists has merit, though, if only to add to population pressures, but I'm going to have to think long and hard about how they may or may not integrate, and in what forms this aspect might start, continue, and either grow or wither - talk about the real world intruding on fantasy, lol

About first contact: The Sword Worlds were first contacted by the Scouts in 53. The first major trade route was established by Sharurshid in 73. (And the third canonical 'first contact', in 147, was the establishmment of diplomatic relationships that were broken off during the Gram-Sacnoth War in 100).

My take, based on the first 'first contact' date (53), is that the Scouts sent off four Scout Cruisers in 53 to do a preliminary survey of the Marches.

erm... ok

That crack you made about me having too much time on my hands? You're right. I've actually worked out the dates that the ship that did the 4th Quadrant (the Explorer Class Scout Cruiser Girga Giirgi) visited each world...

I don't have the map with me here, but if you like, I'll look it up when I get home.

No need - I get the general idea

(And, yes, some day I plan to map out the first contact dates of the other three ships. )

Hans

Mate, I look forward with excessive interest to see where that goes

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Redcap:
My current thinking is that the present (1115 CT/GT timeline) Strouden is an outgrowth of the Corporate enclave that grew around the initial mining activities of LSP, following their licence from the Imperium to mine Zuchai Crystals there. The rationalé is that the colony grew initially slowly, but with gathering pace, to service the needs of at first, LSP with third-party materials and services (corporate outsourcing is current enough in the real word, why should LSP be any different if it reduces costs - corporate bottom lines are always important to the shareholders!), then to service the requirements and needs of the third parties themselves. Along the way, the government formed, and became all-encompassing in the way it runs the planet.

A world is a big place. Strouden has 9 billion inhabitants. You don't think that having all of them belong to just one monolithic group is a bit dull?

I've never been happy with one-theme worlds. Well, a company world can be fun (remember Piper's Zarathustra?), but a company world with 9 billion inhabitants seems a bit unlikely.

Also, a millenium is a long time. Having the same people running things for all that time seems a waste of a perfectly good history.

My tentative thinking is that while initial non-LSP enclaves would have been on the surface, as the caverns were discovered, some would move underground, grow, and require more room, requiring both natural and artificial cavern space to be found, hance the slow-ish expansion.

Caverns? Why caverns? Strouden has an atmosphere that's breathable with filter masks, and I've always assumed that the most likely taint for insdustrial worlds is, well, industrial, which means that originally Strouden's atmosphere were most likely perfectly taint-less.

Your idea on dropping in involuntary colonists has merit, though, if only to add to population pressures, but I'm going to have to think long and hard about how they may or may not integrate, and in what forms this aspect might start, continue, and either grow or wither - talk about the real world intruding on fantasy, lol

I'm working on an article with guidelines and tables for rolling up historical events for planets. It really stimulates the imagination to get a set of randomly generated events and then trying to figure out the details (Mind you, I sometimes give up and rerolls ).

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />My take, based on the first 'first contact' date (53), is that the Scouts sent off four Scout Cruisers in 53 to do a preliminary survey of the Marches.

erm... ok

</font>[/QUOTE]


Hans

 

[Redcap]

Originally posted by rancke:
A world is a big place. Strouden has 9 billion inhabitants. You don't think that having all of them belong to just one monolithic group is a bit dull?

I've never been happy with one-theme worlds. Well, a company world can be fun (remember Piper's Zarathustra?), but a company world with 9 billion inhabitants seems a bit unlikely.

Also, a millenium is a long time. Having the same people running things for all that time seems a waste of a perfectly good history.

On population - note what I said above - the colony grew initially slowly, but with gathering pace, to service the needs of LSP and all third party companies that came into being to service LSP; this would include farms, livestock, manufacturing, service companies, and so on - Strouden is a commercial world, borne out of opportunity to service LSP. As I see it, this would attract colonists, immigration, and so on.

I remember Zarathustra - I also remember Little Fuzzy et al - Piper was a bad loss to the SciFi Community, IMHO

Caverns? Why caverns? Strouden has an atmosphere that's breathable with filter masks, and I've always assumed that the most likely taint for industrial worlds is, well, industrial, which means that originally Strouden's atmosphere were most likely perfectly taint-less.

According to the UWP, it's a standard oxygen-nitrogen mix, with gas mix taint; I added the particulate matter as a flavour item . Personally, I think the volcanic activity, rather than purely industrial gasses, would account for much of the problem - think about the muck that comes from out own volcanoes, and you'll see where I'm driving with this, I think.

I'm working on an article with guidelines and tables for rolling up historical events for planets. It really stimulates the imagination to get a set of randomly generated events and then trying to figure out the details (Mind you, I sometimes give up and rerolls ).

interesting - can you bung me a copy, so I can try it out? Thanks in advance!

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />erm... ok

</font>[/QUOTE]I ran out of emoticons (8 max per post, it seems!)!

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Redcap:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rancke:
A world is a big place. Strouden has 9 billion inhabitants. You don't think that having all of them belong to just one monolithic group is a bit dull?

Also, a millenium is a long time. Having the same people running things for all that time seems a waste of a perfectly good history.

On population - note what I said above - the colony grew initially slowly, but with gathering pace, to service the needs of LSP and all third party companies that came into being to service LSP; this would include farms, livestock, manufacturing, service companies, and so on - Strouden is a commercial world, borne out of opportunity to service LSP. As I see it, this would attract colonists, immigration, and so on.</font>[/QUOTE]Sure, I can see LSP-related business generating immigration. No argument there. But it's a matter of proportion. LSP is a business. All LSP activity on Strouden is aimed at making a profit, which basically means digging stuff out of Strouden and taking it home to LSP HQ. Away from the people who live there. This is not something that will make LSP popular with the locals, and once the population becomes big enough, the locals will have the clout to do something about it.

There're also limits how many people can live off the LSP business. So there will be people who will need to look elsewhere for their livelihood. Miners will dig up ore that isn't sold to LSP. Factories will be built that makes stuff for home consumption. Farmers will grow food that isn't sold to LSP employees. People will move from First Continent and set up shop as far away from LSP as they can.

This trend will be even stronger if there are other colonies set up, but it will happen even if LSP was there first (which I don't believe they were, based on my take on Mora. I wrote a campaign setting about Mora in the Year 100 for JTAS Online. In it I established that LSP's outpost on Mora was an exceptional venture based on Mora being an exceptionally rich world (something akin to Zarathustra, in fact ). I also established that despite Mora being so rich, the transport costs made it marginal for LSP.)

Please understand that I'm not trying to beat you on the head with this; I'm just trying to explain my vision of the Spinward Marches in the early days.

And then there's my argument about a millenium being a long time and having the same people being in charge for all that time seeming to be a waste of a perfectly good history.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Caverns? Why caverns? Strouden has an atmosphere that's breathable with filter masks, and I've always assumed that the most likely taint for industrial worlds is, well, industrial, which means that originally Strouden's atmosphere were most likely perfectly taint-less.

According to the UWP, it's a standard oxygen-nitrogen mix, with gas mix taint; I added the particulate matter as a flavour item . Personally, I think the volcanic activity, rather than purely industrial gasses, would account for much of the problem - think about the muck that comes from out own volcanoes, and you'll see where I'm driving with this, I think.</font>[/QUOTE]The UWP just says there's a taint. It can be industrial, it can be volcanic, it can be a lot of things (But whatever it is, by definition you can breathe it with a filter mask).

I just think that on an industrial world the odds that it is an industrial taint is higher. There's another reason, but it's a tad circular. Basically, high-population worlds are high-population because population increase were higher on them than on mid- or low-population worlds (and/or they were settled earlier). One plausible reason why lots of people would settle one world instead of its neighbor and have lots of kids is that's it's a nice world and that living expenses are low. Obviously, this explanation can't be used on worlds without a breathable atmosphere. On those worlds it's necessary to come up with something else. So, on the high-population worlds where it isn't necessary, I tend to prefer not doing it.

Also, I just like Earth-like worlds. I like that you can have population groups migrate to another region and set up shop, develop divergent cultures, have wars, all that jazz.

Mind you, I like caverns too. I just prefer them on worlds without atmospheres. Or on worlds that looks like garden worlds but obviously isn't, because the population is strangely low.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I'm working on an article with guidelines and tables for rolling up historical events for planets.

interesting - can you bung me a copy, so I can try it out? </font>[/QUOTE]Sure, if you'll promise me some feedback. Send an e-mail to ranckeATdiku.dk (substituting an '@' for the 'AT') with your e-mail and I'll send you a copy.


Hans

 

[Redcap]

Originally posted by rancke:
Sure, I can see LSP-related business generating immigration. No argument there. But it's a matter of proportion. LSP is a business. All LSP activity on Strouden is aimed at making a profit, which basically means digging stuff out of Strouden and taking it home to LSP HQ. Away from the people who live there. This is not something that will make LSP popular with the locals, and once the population becomes big enough, the locals will have the clout to do something about it.

Yeah, I can follow that line of reasoning

There're also limits how many people can live off the LSP business. So there will be people who will need to look elsewhere for their livelihood. Miners will dig up ore that isn't sold to LSP. Factories will be built that makes stuff for home consumption. Farmers will grow food that isn't sold to LSP employees. People will move from First Continent and set up shop as far away from LSP as they can.

This trend will be even stronger if there are other colonies set up, but it will happen even if LSP was there first (which I don't believe they were, based on my take on Mora. I wrote a campaign setting about Mora in the Year 100 for JTAS Online. In it I established that LSP's outpost on Mora was an exceptional venture based on Mora being an exceptionally rich world (something akin to Zarathustra, in fact ). I also established that despite Mora being so rich, the transport costs made it marginal for LSP.)

Yep, follow - well put

Please understand that I'm not trying to beat you on the head with this; I'm just trying to explain my vision of the Spinward Marches in the early days.

No problem - I like feedback and suggestions

And then there's my argument about a millenium being a long time and having the same people being in charge for all that time seeming to be a waste of a perfectly good history.

LOL - nicely put!

[The UWP just says there's a taint. It can be industrial, it can be volcanic, it can be a lot of things (But whatever it is, by definition you can breathe it with a filter mask).

Sorry, I was referring to book 6 (Scouts) where it's described as a standard oxygen-nitrogen mix, with gas mix taint. Oops!

I just think that on an industrial world the odds that it is an industrial taint is higher. There's another reason, but it's a tad circular. Basically, high-population worlds are high-population because population increase were higher on them than on mid- or low-population worlds (and/or they were settled earlier). One plausible reason why lots of people would settle one world instead of its neighbor and have lots of kids is that's it's a nice world and that living expenses are low. Obviously, this explanation can't be used on worlds without a breathable atmosphere. On those worlds it's necessary to come up with something else. So, on the high-population worlds where it isn't necessary, I tend to prefer not doing it.

Also, I just like Earth-like worlds. I like that you can have population groups migrate to another region and set up shop, develop divergent cultures, have wars, all that jazz.

Mind you, I like caverns too. I just prefer them on worlds without atmospheres. Or on worlds that looks like garden worlds but obviously isn't, because the population is strangely low.

Whoops - did you remember I mentioned the excessively high UV radiation (probably due to the close proximity to the star?). There's another reason for the caverns

Folks don't like being burnt to a crisp just because they like breathing

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I'm working on an article with guidelines and tables for rolling up historical events for planets.

interesting - can you bung me a copy, so I can try it out?</font>[/QUOTE]Sure, if you'll promise me some feedback. Send an e-mail to ranckeATdiku.dk (substituting an '@' for the 'AT') with your e-mail and I'll send you a copy.

Hans</font>[/QUOTE]I'll be more than happy to provide you with feedback - email on route

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Redcap:
Sorry, I was referring to book 6 (Scouts) where it's described as a standard oxygen-nitrogen mix, with gas mix taint. Oops!

Scouts is one of the few LBBs that I don't have, alas. Traditionally, an atmospheric taint can be anything that requires a filter mask -- gas, dust, pollen, germs, you name it. There are even canonical examples of 'low oxygen' being considered a taint (which I personally think is wrong, since that means you need oxygen tanks, which would make it an exotic atmosphere by anything I consider a reasonable interpretation of the definitions, but there it is). If Scouts only mentions gas then it's not providing the whole picture.

Or are you saying that Scouts mentions Strouden by name and says it has a gas taint? That would be a different matter entirely.

Whoops - did you remember I mentioned the excessively high UV radiation (probably due to the close proximity to the star?). There's another reason for the caverns

Folks don't like being burnt to a crisp just because they like breathing

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying you can't make Strouden into a hell-hole that requires extensive protection to survive on and restricts the settlers to huddle in caverns. I'm arguing that it is a terrible waste of an Earth-prime world.

I'll be more than happy to provide you with feedback - email on route

Got it. I don't have the file here; I'll have to bring it along from home. Expect it in a day or two.


Hans

 

[Redcap]

Originally posted by rancke:
Scouts is one of the few LBBs that I don't have, alas. Traditionally, an atmospheric taint can be anything that requires a filter mask -- gas, dust, pollen, germs, you name it. There are even canonical examples of 'low oxygen' being considered a taint (which I personally think is wrong, since that means you need oxygen tanks, which would make it an exotic atmosphere by anything I consider a reasonable interpretation of the definitions, but there it is). If Scouts only mentions gas then it's not providing the whole picture.

Or are you saying that Scouts mentions Strouden by name and says it has a gas taint? That would be a different matter entirely.

I'm talking outta a well-known hole in the ground again - I should have said that H&E generated the taint (see here for raw H&E data: http://www.practicalairsoft.co.uk/tlg/H_and_E_raw_data.html), not Scouts - it was late in the day for me, and I'd been re-reading scouts earlier in my lunch break for ideas - it was a right female vargr of a day for me yesterday - not only did I have a ten hour shift, I had my annual staff review and assessment after the shift yesterday! Sorry for the confusion!

In any case, I added, as I said, the particulate problem (notional HVI impact) to add to the problems on-surface, so as to rationalise the habitation (dome and cavern) problems. Think of the over-crowding, for example - makes everyone live in each others' pockets, for a start!

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Folks don't like being burnt to a crisp just because they like breathing

You misunderstand me. I'm not saying you can't make Strouden into a hell-hole that requires extensive protection to survive on and restricts the settlers to huddle in caverns. I'm arguing that it is a terrible waste of an Earth-prime world. </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe, but it sure makes things interesting

Think of the adventure hooks - Crash landing & Survival, for example

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I'll be more than happy to provide you with feedback - email on route

Got it. I don't have the file here; I'll have to bring it along from home. Expect it in a day or two.

Hans</font>[/QUOTE]Cool

I look forward to seeing them

 

[Redcap]

OK, positive use for a double posting, lol:

Site updated to include world 3-D graphics, in both the Header graphic (used site-wide) and the animation on the home page. Many thanks, Andrew - You Da Man!

Also added fresh credits to the credits page as well (so that Hans isn't left out )

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Er...the link to my site is broken...

 

[Redcap]

Oops! Forgot the "http" bit

Fixed now

 

[Andrew Boulton]

That's better! BTW, I only used LunarCell to make the clouds. I rendered the images using Cinema 4D.

 

[Redcap]

aha

OK, thanks

I've amended the blurb accordingly

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I'll shut up and go away now

 

[Redcap]

LOL

 

[Qstor2]

*dah dah bump*

Great website!! Did you add your work to the TML landgrab site on Travellercentral (dot) com?

Mike

 

[Merxiless]

Hey, I just stumbled onto this. Great site, great job. I do about half that work on a planet I'm going to use for a month.

Great, really impressed. I'm having a go at making one of the rotating world pics, I have used Lunarcell for years, just not made a rotating #D Graphic with the Cinema 4-d Thing.

Bravo.

 

[Redcap]

*dah dah bump*

Great website!! Did you add your work to the TML landgrab site on Travellercentral (dot) com?

Mike

Thanks - I submitted it by email a while back, never got a response. I'm assuming either the contact details were/are out of date, or the site isn't being updated any more.

Hey, I just stumbled onto this. Great site, great job. I do about half that work on a planet I'm going to use for a month.

Great, really impressed. I'm having a go at making one of the rotating world pics, I have used Lunarcell for years, just not made a rotating #D Graphic with the Cinema 4-d Thing.

Bravo.

Thanks - It all just fell together, that one - Nice when it happens

The one I'm working on at the moment is giving me all manner of grief, if only because I can't darn well find the bleepety bleep bleep bleep location of the bleeping UWP/world name/subsector/sector details I originally used way back in 1991! Bleep!

Anyhow, I didn't use Lunarcell - I use Fractal Terrains by ProFantasy. There's a link on the site, btw. The images used in the header and "beauty shot" in the article proper was generated by Andrew Boulton, who used LunarCell to make the clouds, and rendered the images of the world using Cinema 4D.

Interestingly, there've been advances in Fractal Terrains since then; there's a freebie modular addon that extends the abilities of FT to include clouds (using formation templates)

Example below:

This image was generated in TF with the "Terraformer package" added, using CloudColor1.jpg and one of the HNXP images (can't remember which one); the resulting image was exported from TF as a rotating sequence of BMP images, and the best one selected and imported into Fireworks, where the stellar background was added, along with the atmospheric glow. The image was then saved as a PNG and exported to a JPG, and resized to 50% for ease of use.

It still lacks some of the bells and whistles that Lunarcell and Cinema4D add, notably the directional lighting aspects, but for the software that I actually have, namely FT and the Terraformer package, plus Fireworks, add up to a useful combination

How's that?