Kicking it off ... with a question!
- Thread starter ACK!!
- Start date
M
Malenfant
Guest
Because it's infinitely preferable to and more versatile than d20, IMO
No random chargen, no classes/levels, no feats, no d20 baggage. Also chargen is much less confusing in GURPS, IMO.
Plus you can drop lots of other stuff into GT from the other GURPS books, including Transhuman Space and Blue Planet.
Also, the supplements (with the notable exception of Behind the Claw, which is just one huge errata list - sorry MJD
) are the most comprehensive and well-written ever done for Traveller IMO. The folks directly involved with Traveller (Jon, Loren, and Alain who is editing JTAS) are top notch. GT is the only reason I'm interested in anything SJG does now though.
When I gave serious thought to getting G:Trav a few months back, hwere's what I thought...
[If you want a "gamist" system that's about decision making, tactics and winning rather than simulating a setting, you need mechanics more like Shadowrun. Most traveller editions are gamist-simulationist hybrids.]
Now whether GURPS:Traveller is configured to be the sort of TU you want to simulate living in, that's a matter of taste.
IMO GURPS has always been a system for people who take their gaming very seriously, like me. It makes a good spouse but it's probably too much work for a one night stand.
G:T did suffer badly from "too many books needed to start play" syndrome. It's not so bad now that they've rationalised their line with a couple of traveller specific books instead of using 30 pages each from half a dozen non-traveller books.
In the past, I've found it pretty easy to use GURPS setting material in other RPGs without using their rules. It probably helps that separating mechanics and setting is kind of fundamental to the whole "Generic Universal" thing. I'm about to find out whether this holds true for traveller...
When I got back into Trav, I went for T20 over GURPS for a set of modest practical reasons:
- QLI provide free Lite rules and provided a free mini-setting/adventure PDF to start. Once I'd used those, I needed a reason to change.
- QLI mostly sell PDFs. SJG purely sell paper. I prefer PDFs.
- Less books needed to play T20.
- The GURPS book which most interests me (Far Trader) is out of print.
GURPS is probably the premier "simulationist" RPG system. If your idea of RPGs is "What would it be like to live in a certain sort of world?", GURPS mechanics are set up to support that.
[If you want a "gamist" system that's about decision making, tactics and winning rather than simulating a setting, you need mechanics more like Shadowrun. Most traveller editions are gamist-simulationist hybrids.]
Now whether GURPS:Traveller is configured to be the sort of TU you want to simulate living in, that's a matter of taste.
IMO GURPS has always been a system for people who take their gaming very seriously, like me. It makes a good spouse but it's probably too much work for a one night stand.
G:T did suffer badly from "too many books needed to start play" syndrome. It's not so bad now that they've rationalised their line with a couple of traveller specific books instead of using 30 pages each from half a dozen non-traveller books.
In the past, I've found it pretty easy to use GURPS setting material in other RPGs without using their rules. It probably helps that separating mechanics and setting is kind of fundamental to the whole "Generic Universal" thing. I'm about to find out whether this holds true for traveller...
I'd rate it about the same as D20 (D20 != D&D).
When I got back into Trav, I went for T20 over GURPS for a set of modest practical reasons:
- QLI provide free Lite rules and provided a free mini-setting/adventure PDF to start. Once I'd used those, I needed a reason to change.
- QLI mostly sell PDFs. SJG purely sell paper. I prefer PDFs.
- Less books needed to play T20.
- The GURPS book which most interests me (Far Trader) is out of print.
No particular view. Though I wish they'd sell PDFs, especially out of print stuff like Far Trader.
M
Malenfant
Guest
I know you said you preferred PDFs, but they are reprinting Star Mercs and Far Trader in a couple of months as hardcopy, just so you know.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
ACK asked:
I haven't used the GURPS rules to run Traveller, but then I'm having a hard time persuading my gaming group to give T20 a try (they weren't great fans of 3rd Ed D&D). Most of them prefer the house rules system that we have evolved over the years (I've mentioned the details in answer to a previous question of yours
).
At the moment GURPS offers a lot of supplements, such as Aliens, for example, that are not covered by T20 yet. I like the Starship book's design options, but oddly use them to flesh out T20 based designs. Other supplements, like Far Trader, First In, Ground Forces and Starports add meat to CT bones and are easily translated into my bastardised rules system.
I haven't used the GURPS rules to run Traveller, but then I'm having a hard time persuading my gaming group to give T20 a try (they weren't great fans of 3rd Ed D&D). Most of them prefer the house rules system that we have evolved over the years (I've mentioned the details in answer to a previous question of yours
).Erik Boielle
SOC-12
I like the points buy system for characters, the way the roll under your skill provides an easy default target number, and the kinda GURPS do with this what thou wilt thing*.
Over D20, its much easier to transfer between settings -
A pilot right - thats a high dex and pilot skill.
While in D20 you kinda want to start inventing new classes and progressions, and end up just saying, ⌧ it I'll do it in GURPS.
I could make up the special character creation rules for GURPS Honor Harrington on the fly during character creation, frex.
And the simulationist thing - the rules are supposed to fade in to the background. It like my experience of playing multiplayer FPS on consoles** vs pcs - in consoles you fight the control system to get a straight shot, while the far easier mouse+wasd of pcs mean you fight your opponent.
Kinda.
GURPs is the mouse, D20 the controller.
*Although to be honest, I'm kinda falling out of love with such things a little - some of the books recently haven't really told me anything I didn't already know, and didn't tell me it in a very interesting way (GURPS weird war 2 I'm looking at you here), so I'm kinda leaning more towards novels at the moment.
**Although this is because I practice far more with a mouse.
Over D20, its much easier to transfer between settings -
A pilot right - thats a high dex and pilot skill.
While in D20 you kinda want to start inventing new classes and progressions, and end up just saying, ⌧ it I'll do it in GURPS.
I could make up the special character creation rules for GURPS Honor Harrington on the fly during character creation, frex.
And the simulationist thing - the rules are supposed to fade in to the background. It like my experience of playing multiplayer FPS on consoles** vs pcs - in consoles you fight the control system to get a straight shot, while the far easier mouse+wasd of pcs mean you fight your opponent.
Kinda.
GURPs is the mouse, D20 the controller.
*Although to be honest, I'm kinda falling out of love with such things a little - some of the books recently haven't really told me anything I didn't already know, and didn't tell me it in a very interesting way (GURPS weird war 2 I'm looking at you here), so I'm kinda leaning more towards novels at the moment.
**Although this is because I practice far more with a mouse.
SJ Games publishes GURPS Lite as a free download</font>[/QUOTE]Oh, I know -- I've got it and it's darned handy if you want to interpret the rules material in their setting books. But they don't publish "GURPS: Traveller Lite". You can't play three or four sessions completely for free to test the water, like I did with T20. [See sig -- the story has roughly reached the point where I bought a rulebook.]
I saw, and I think it's an excellent idea. It seems like a worthwhile cause, so I'll do my best.
I suspect that if there were more t20 books available, you might wind up using more.
I run GURPS Traveller with just GURPS Lite and a couple of GT books, and haven't had any trouble. Mine is a merchant campaign in an original Traveller universe, so I usually need only the GT basic book and Far Trader. I highly recommend this approach to anyone who isn't excited about becoming a GURPS expert.</font>[/QUOTE]Oh, sure. I have 7 TAs and I'm on my second block subscription, plus Gateway and 1248 and so on.
And it's clear that you can do a slimmed down G:T (so why do they shoot themselves in the foot mentioning half a dozen "required" books in their back cover blurbs?). It's still more than T20, though.
Now, if they did a PBG edition of the main G:T book with 3-5 sample PC ships and added in the fabled quickplay rules from Far Trader page 19, they'd be getting there. Core book, sector book of your choice (or download a fan-written adventure, even), away you go. Any RPG you can't start with two books maximum is up against it in the contemporary market, IMO.
"Why GURPS?"
Well, GURPS was my first RPG system and I saw the possibility of using so many worldbooks with one system (this was back in '98). Heck, I'm using GURPS Mecha with GT.
"What do you like about GURPS versus T20 or even running old school rules like CT or MT or T4 or whatever?"
I'm not too keen on T20, because you have to make new classes if the classes available aren't what you're looking for. I use d20 for D&D only, so far. I've only tried MT thanks to the downloadable PC games. The character generation system seems interesting and shows that the characters had lives before their adventuring days.
"How do you feel about Steve Jackson Games?"
Their pretty much money-grabbers, like most game companies (Games Workshop comes to mind). But I like most of the fluff (background) in their GT books, although they seem to lack detail.
Well, GURPS was my first RPG system and I saw the possibility of using so many worldbooks with one system (this was back in '98). Heck, I'm using GURPS Mecha with GT.
"What do you like about GURPS versus T20 or even running old school rules like CT or MT or T4 or whatever?"
I'm not too keen on T20, because you have to make new classes if the classes available aren't what you're looking for. I use d20 for D&D only, so far. I've only tried MT thanks to the downloadable PC games. The character generation system seems interesting and shows that the characters had lives before their adventuring days.
"How do you feel about Steve Jackson Games?"
Their pretty much money-grabbers, like most game companies (Games Workshop comes to mind). But I like most of the fluff (background) in their GT books, although they seem to lack detail.
I bought GT. I would need a lot of books to run the game. You need Gbasic,GT and a sourcebook at a minimal. I miss the CT LBBs.
I prefer advantages to Feats. But I'm running T20 for several reasons. COTI is more useful than JTAS or Yahoo groups CT....the inexpensive $5 books are great...not perfect but I'm not looking for perfect.
SJG---good stuff. A major committment to use but their business philosophy is where everyone else should have been in the 80s. GDW wasn't fully utilizing it's resources because it was wasting effort on new rule systems with each game. And TSR was crazy... turned into wizards which went to hasbro...SJG is still SJG.
Its the following, like D20, that keeps them alive. They've had little in automation, pdfs, etc. And that'll start hurting eventually. There
free webpage of sofware really doesn't cut it.
Savage
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Hello ACK,
To be honest I upgrade to the latest version of Traveller because I like Traveller. One reason for upgrading is that I can get the core book and additinal material easier.
Traveller CT is the version I played the most, though I never got a good feeling for using the design system. MT, TNE, and T4 added detail to the design system that I like, and I am still trying to figure out how to use them effectively. I am more successful using G:T's design sequence, with T20's being the next easiest for me. For character generation I like both MT and G:T. I am still trying to get a handle on T20's character generation, so my verdict is still pending.
Tom Rux
To be honest I upgrade to the latest version of Traveller because I like Traveller. One reason for upgrading is that I can get the core book and additinal material easier.
Traveller CT is the version I played the most, though I never got a good feeling for using the design system. MT, TNE, and T4 added detail to the design system that I like, and I am still trying to figure out how to use them effectively. I am more successful using G:T's design sequence, with T20's being the next easiest for me. For character generation I like both MT and G:T. I am still trying to get a handle on T20's character generation, so my verdict is still pending.
Tom Rux
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
</font>[/QUOTE]
GURPS is a good system. No worse or better than others I have played. It has its strengths and weakness's like everyother rpg.
As for Traveller beocoming a Gurps product, it is quite good. The background material they publish is quite good, no matter what it is. You can take almost any sourcebook and run it using any system you want. The writing is clear enough that comversion is usally no problem. If you don't like the Gurps system, no problem. Buy the books for the information. It is all good.
As for Traveller beocoming a Gurps product, it is quite good. The background material they publish is quite good, no matter what it is. You can take almost any sourcebook and run it using any system you want. The writing is clear enough that comversion is usally no problem. If you don't like the Gurps system, no problem. Buy the books for the information. It is all good.
Anthony Emmel
SOC-7
Chello!
I just like GURPS....one of my favorite engines since I first played it back in '93.
Now, admittedly, I prefer CT, but y copy of the Traveller Book and the Traveller Adventure disappeared a long time ago (sidenote: I really miss the TB because that's the last thing my grandfather bought for me before he died), and I haven't got around to buying the LBB reprints.
While CT has a more intuitive system to run, ther are times when I like the complexity of the GURPS combat system. Pull out the minis and maps and go to town. I also the ads/disads for chracter creation.
The one thing I really like SJG is the Deckplans idea. True thera re some inaacuracies in the plans, but hey, it's not that important in the long run. It's just kewl to have the maps for ease of play....
Tony
I just like GURPS....one of my favorite engines since I first played it back in '93.
Now, admittedly, I prefer CT, but y copy of the Traveller Book and the Traveller Adventure disappeared a long time ago (sidenote: I really miss the TB because that's the last thing my grandfather bought for me before he died), and I haven't got around to buying the LBB reprints.
While CT has a more intuitive system to run, ther are times when I like the complexity of the GURPS combat system. Pull out the minis and maps and go to town. I also the ads/disads for chracter creation.
The one thing I really like SJG is the Deckplans idea. True thera re some inaacuracies in the plans, but hey, it's not that important in the long run. It's just kewl to have the maps for ease of play....
Tony
This has been mentioned before... COTI is 'family friendly'. Marc has values that we are required to uphold for Traveller and WE have values that we request you to uphold on this forum.
In short, I'm asking, politely, that people refrain from using bad language on our boards.
This is not (yet) an enforced policy, it is a request. Failure to comply shows a total disregrard for our principles and a complete lack of repsect for the people who host the boards.
It's a little thing, but it is important to us.
In short, I'm asking, politely, that people refrain from using bad language on our boards.
This is not (yet) an enforced policy, it is a request. Failure to comply shows a total disregrard for our principles and a complete lack of repsect for the people who host the boards.
It's a little thing, but it is important to us.
JustinThyme
SOC-10
I have never played GURPS, don't own the Basic Set, Compendium, addendums, ad nauseum, but I will say this. I purchase every GT product released and will continue to do so. Signed:
(you guessed it) Traveller Junky!!!
(you guessed it) Traveller Junky!!!
TJP
SOC-12
I have mixed feelings towards GURPS as a rule system. On one hand, I like its openess (it can handle most genres well enough), flexibility and thoroughness (has anyone ever needed the digging rules?). Also, most of its genre books are great info sources, regardless of your rule system. On the other hand, I don't like it's skill system that much (way too attribute-heavy, among other things) nor the immense advantage/disadvantage lists - I'd have preferred a much more compact list with only "relevant" ads/disads (much like CORPS, for example). On the gripping hand , GURPS is very easy to modify to your liking, i.e. the system is modder-friendly. However, all that time you spend customizing and fine-tuning it, is time not playing.
GURPS is a simulationst system and players who use it for gamist ends aren't really using the right system, IMHO. As GURPS is a min-maxer's dream, it is highly vulnerable to all sorts of super-munchkin characters. With the right players it can be a very rewarding system, allowing you to design/create a character you want to play (according to you character concept), with the wrong players (and wrong GM) it can be a nightmare (believe you me, I've been a player in one such group).
Well, enough of GURPS as a system, this is a GURPS Traveller forum. GURPS Traveller, why not? When GT started in 1998 (or so), Imperium Games had folded and there weren't too many Traveller books being published; the future of Traveller seemed uncertain (at least to me), so it was a very welcome thing. My thought on Traveller books has always been "the more the merrier". Unfortunately the GT line seems to be slowly dying.
, GURPS is very easy to modify to your liking, i.e. the system is modder-friendly. However, all that time you spend customizing and fine-tuning it, is time not playing.GURPS is a simulationst system and players who use it for gamist ends aren't really using the right system, IMHO. As GURPS is a min-maxer's dream, it is highly vulnerable to all sorts of super-munchkin characters. With the right players it can be a very rewarding system, allowing you to design/create a character you want to play (according to you character concept), with the wrong players (and wrong GM) it can be a nightmare (believe you me, I've been a player in one such group).
Well, enough of GURPS as a system, this is a GURPS Traveller forum. GURPS Traveller, why not? When GT started in 1998 (or so), Imperium Games had folded and there weren't too many Traveller books being published; the future of Traveller seemed uncertain (at least to me), so it was a very welcome thing. My thought on Traveller books has always been "the more the merrier". Unfortunately the GT line seems to be slowly dying.
JustinThyme
SOC-10
SJG is reprinting "Far Trader" and "Star Mercs" by popular demand. An outstanding query is whether these will incorporate existing errata or be plain and simple reprints. No reply yet. Also awaiting answer is the confirmation of a rumoured release of "Traveller Heroes: Fighter Jocks" that is alluded over the Internet from dealer sources always with the caption "Out-of-Print". ?
M
Malenfant
Guest
You have a strange definition of 'slowly dying' considering that in the past year we've seen Humaniti and Starships released, this week Sword Worlds is coming out, plus the final draft of Nobles has just been submitted and should be out soon hopefully. And there's the Interstellar Wars setting on the way too.
M
Malenfant
Guest
Far Trader I can understand, but I can't for the life of me see the point of reprinting Star Mercs - most of that was replaced by Ground Forces, wasn't it? Surely a reissue of First In would have been a darn sight more useful too, for any sci-fi background.
