Imperial Depots

[Ben W Bell]

As we all know Imperial Depots are entire systems turned over to the needs of the Navy. Now the functions shall run the entire range from training, administration and construction to R&D.

The question I have is would the construction of capital ships be performed by the Navy itself, or would most of those jobs be contracted out to the Megacorporations? The same for R&D.

 

[BigBadRon]

I would imagine that if they have the resources of entire systems to play with, they'd do most of the work themselves. That would reduce the chances of information being leaked by contractors.

 

[Ben W Bell]

That's what I've always thought. The Navy would do the R&D and construction of it's ships themselves.

However I believe I've come across before references to the Corporations constructing military vessels. Not just little things but larger ones, unless the Navy just gives the Corps contracts to build older models.

 

[BigBadRon]

Yeah, that makes sense. Once the Zhos have seen a Tigress up close and very personal a few times, then you can farm them out to the megacorps to build.
With a new class that hasn't been deployed yet, even its size could be kept more secret if you build it "in house".
Also, there's plenty of room in a depot system for trials and shakedown cruises, checking the newly coded gunnery software against defenceless asteroids, etc. All of which could be done without the new ship leaving the yards (effectively).
Having said that, I bet more than a couple of Red Zones are actually corporate R&D facilities, which the Navy has been paid to keep people out of...

 

[aoehler]

There's a good reason that these jobs are contracted out - politics. If the navy had a huge shipyard like you state, then you can bet that there'd be a huge civilian presence there. Don't forget all of the military dependants, the infrastructure to support those dependants, all of the civilian contractors, etc.

Also, civilian contractors can have engineers that are good at designing things, where naval engineers might be the more practical type.

 

[Elliot]

Another reason for contracting out is economics. If General and Ling Standard compete to build a new ship they can save the Navy money by tendering lower prices. Look at CT ship rosters (e.g. The Kininuir or AZL) - it appears that the design (or even the spec) is navy and the build is competitive free market stuff. The trouble with getting the Navy to do the build is that the lack of competition creates expensive ships.

 

[Elliot]

Another reason for contracting out is economics. If General and Ling Standard compete to build a new ship they can save the Navy money by tendering lower prices. Look at CT ship rosters (e.g. The Kininuir or AZL) - it appears that the design (or even the spec) is navy and the build is competitive free market stuff. The trouble with getting the Navy to do the build is that the lack of competition creates expensive ships.

 

[Rodina]

Economics probably dictate that ship construction will be spread around, and there is some canon to indicate that it is. Note the reference to the Children of the March which was built with lunch money donations to entice the Navy to bulid the ships in the Marches as there was little chance that the Spinward Marches would receive a contract.

I think the point that newer class ships are built by the Navy themselves seems reasonable, but one thing to consider for an adventure idea is as follows:

- Assume some ships (at least non-capital or non-classified) are built locally by local contractors, but stipulate that the Imperial Navy supervises the construction of these ships (as one of your many "Shore Duty" assignments). The IN is going to want things done on schedule, and a Naval officer who rubs the union the wrong way and gets behind on the construction of that 10,000 ton fuel tender may resort to some outside help to find out who is stealing the "Lubricant, Hatch, Iris, Exposed, Non-Volatile, Radar-Absorbant" and fermenting it into the latest club/rave drug.

I think one of the things that's fun in the Traveller universe is not figuring out how things -should- be done, but figuring out the way things -shouldn't- be and deciding that that's how it happens, because there's so much more chance for conflict and adventure possibilities.

 

[aoehler]

Rodina,

Great adventure seed/idea! Thanks.

 

[savage]

Subcontractors are the most efficient method. Certainly some form of representation occurs in a Depot system (like a Commodant and a Civilian Governor). Depots would provide multiple purposes allowing many benefits directly under military control. More than likely they would be an expansive version of our Norfolk or philly shipyards, Camp Pendleton and San Clemente Island (a good place to drop bombs, a bad place to walk), Langley or even Groom Lake.

Benefits:
1. R&D, ship development and maintenance could occur anywhere but would be coordinated and/or replicated at depot. Depots probably have the ability to build warships but are not the only source. (In the Kinunir book we saw construction occuring in many locations.)
2. fleet wargames and training environment (drop troops on that moon, blast those asteriods). Hey they could mock a planetary bombardment and assault including fake towns and cities.
3. surplus stores and distribution facilities
4. mothball fleet storage
5. military waste storage and disposal

Savage

 

[BigBadRon]

Yes, but the Kinunir is a known design, IMHO I think the building of prototypes and R&D on new weapons would be done at the depots.
Only when the new class is actually deployed would further construction be contracted out. While it is still a secret, the Navy would want to make sure as few people as possible outside their own organisation know about it.
Once the design is contracted to the megacorps etc, the price would drop. Which is perhaps part of the reason for the discounted price when a ship is built in numbers.

 

[savage]

The Kinunir book discusses the manufacturing sites for the first delivered groups of ships. The computer system is still bleeding edge and is the basis for the entire adventure.

Are you suggesting that another group of the vessels was produced at a Depot?

I would conclude that test vehicles might have been produced and tested at a Depot. It would be very expensive to insist on all development occuring from Depot. It would also be opposed by local goverments that would want research occuring at their individual worlds to improve economies.

Savage

 

[aoehler]

I think that secrecy is not a concern. Take modern life and draw the analog. Lockheed has the skunkworks for example. A group of civilians with security clearances design some of the most secret airplanes the US government has in it's air force.

The same could be said about starship design and construction...

Also, there's likely to be comparmentalization of technology. For example, one set of contractors likely design the frame, another the jump drive, another the sensor suite, and another the weapon systems, etc.

And, just because it's all military, doesn't mean that it's secret!

 

[aoehler]

Clarification: secrecy is not a concern in regards to civilians working on a project...

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[trader jim]

where are some of the System Depots located....what sectors/subsectors???

 

[tjoneslo]

Every sector has a depot, usually named depot. Delphi sector has two, just because it's special.

 

[Ben W Bell]

Yes. Just look on the maps for the systems named Depot. Those are systems entirely devoted to the Imperial Navy.

I was reading that their locations are technically a secret, but if you spend a couple of months watching fleet movements you can easily work out where they are.

According to the library data I've just looked at the depots do contain R&D and construction facilities, but the construction facilities are usually only used in an emergency. The R&D in the Depots are the cream of the crop.

The Depots are also the center of naval admin and training.

I'll have to do some stuff up on Depots as I've always found them to be interesting. Imagine the resources of an entire system in the Navy's hands.

 

[millican]

I think asteroid belts with a Gas Giant (or two) make the best Depots. That may be the type of system that is the Depot in the Spinward Marches, but I would have to look at the map again.

For me, Depots serve three main purposes. 1.) R&D, 2.) Training, and 3.) in-depth logistics.

R&D - Imperial Navy R&D would, in my opinion, be technologies or technological applications that are uneconomical for commercially sponsored R&D or is of such a military nature that commercial or educational R&D is not suitable (mainly for security reasons). Obviously, weapon systems top the list here, but survivability technologies may also be in this category.

Training - lots of things to practice gunnery, missilery, drop landings, 0-g maneuvers, vacc operations, etc. 'nuff said.

In-depth logistics - all the supplies to keep the sector's fleets stocked for multiple years at war time consumption rates.

A word about shipbuilding. I lean to the commercial shipyard model. It does make economic and security sense. Subcontracting can make sure no one contractor knows too much. Similarly, after a class of ship has been around there is not too much to keep secret. While depots can build and repair ships, during peace their focus would be R&D and prototype construction / special projects. Routine repair and new construction being handled by the commercial yards. During war depots would convert and crank out ships as well as repair damaged ones.