How Politically Correct is your TU?

[lightsenshi]

Personally, I'd prefer an all male army. Not because I don't think women are capable (I know quite a few who are much more capable than me), but because someone needs to "guard the home front".

Given current advances in B&C technology (biological and chemical), it's possible to produce something that sterilizes rather than kills. If everyone goes off to fight and someone uses something like this, the end result becomes a loosing senario.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

 

[BigBadRon]

Oops yes, meant to say that; the starport and any bases attached to it are Imperial territority and subject to the Emperors Law.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by BigBadRon:
Oops yes, meant to say that; the starport and any bases attached to it are Imperial territority and subject to the Emperors Law.

________________________________________________
Agreed. Hoped I hadnae misinterpreted that!

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by lightsenshi:
Personally, I'd prefer an all male army. Not because I don't think women are capable (I know quite a few who are much more capable than me), but because someone needs to "guard the home front".
Of course, that's just my opinion.

______________________________________________
Given the make up of differing societies/ tech levels, I can see yer all male militaries at the colonial level. At the Imperial level, no. And that too, is just my opinion. Thanx fer weighing in! Glad ye did!

 

[manley_t]

I had thought of the idea of a single sex species. Lets take humans and stick them on antoher world and have all the males die off. Well, with women and cloning, society can continue.

But what would that society turn into?

I asked my wife what she thought and her opnion was that women would progress in a society radcially different than ours -- and that women really didn't need men anyway*

So I toyed with the idea of this instellar species that has found the path they feel is the right one -- and their scewed history paints their time with men as part of thier species as enslavement. So they are on a crusdae to kill all the men and bring their sisters into the fold.

When I asked my wife about this she said it sounded like a man's idea. Then she teased me about a spaceship filled with viking women......and I thought hmmmm......I kinda like that.

anyway -- I think it would be interesting; and if done correctly quite scare to the players.

* -- footnote
women not needing men -- I asked her about cleaning up the dog barf and killing spiders and rummaging through the house in the middile of the night because she heard a noise -- and asked her who would do all that? Of couse her reply was that she's been programmed by the male oppressive society that must be wiped out for the greater glory of the Harmonic Sisterhood......

anyway.....

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by Big Tim:
I had thought of the idea of a single sex species. Lets take humans and stick them on antoher world and have all the males die off. Well, with women and cloning, society can continue.

But what would that society turn into?

Poul Anderson's book Virgin Planet takes place on one such world. A. Bertram Chandler's Spartan Planet has an all-male society. So does Lois Bujold's Ethan of Athos, but most of the book takes place somewhere else. Mack Reynold's Amazon Planet has a world where men are disenfranchised.

Hans

 

[sea_tyger]

MTU is based strongly on 1870's America, specifically the frontier, and loosely on the Fox sci-fi show Firefly. As such, the style, dress and general political climate mirror that of Victorian America in many ways (with obvious differences of gender and "general" species equity...I'm using the Aslan to represent the British, the Vargr represent Old Mexico, and the Sydites somewhat represent Native Americans).

I intentionally have animosity between unionists and former secessionists as part of the basic feel of the setting.

However, I ignore most other politically correct items, simply because they don't play a part in the furthing of the storyline. I have plenty of other story ideas without having to deal with who's marrying/sleeping with whom, and will not be bothered with things that aren't crucial to the development of the PCs or the storyline.

And on a side note, instead of doing the politically correct thing, I'm much more interested in doing the right thing.

 

[kafka47]

If we take Politically Correct to mean how accurate the TU is to the real world of politics. Then my TU is very politically correct...

If you seem to mean what is engaged in the cultural war going on in the United States, then who cares, unless they join in a campaign.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by kafka47:
If we take Politically Correct to mean how accurate the TU is to the real world of politics. Then my TU is very politically correct...

If you seem to mean what is engaged in the cultural war going on in the United States, then who cares, unless they join in a campaign.

________________________________________________
In point one, thank you for answering my question sir!
In point 2, thank you for your opinion sir!
heretically yours,

 

[BwapTED]

MTU is not , on the whole, very PC.

For example:

Slavery: The Imperial ban on slavery is enforced mostly in regards to slave trafficking through space. Planetary/national governments are responsible for enforcing it past the extrality line/dirtside. De factor slavery still exists on some low tech planets.

Cleon Zhunastu wanted to sell more robots, and to paint himself as a 'liberator.'

 

[Seriayne]

Thoughts

IMTU - local laws on social interaction are everything, with the exceptions laid out loosely in the various versions of Traveller to date (Though I'll typically dip toward DGP, JTAS or GURPS Traveller's Nobles articles for inspiration). For example, the Geonee are sexist by culture, but the Imperial institution is sex blind, race blind for the most part.

Imperial nobility is still primarily a human dominated scenario.

Your Imperial world is human? You have a human noble representing you at capital. Your Imperial world is Alien? Does it understand/allow for the concept of a Noble representative? Yes? Its a member of your own race. No? We'll appoint a human representative to your interests at the Moot.

Worlds where racism/sexism/pro or anti religious beliefs (Or anything really - you could make the color blue violently taboo on a world for story purposes.) are noteably dangerous to offworlders or non-local race members generally get an Amber Zone rating from TAS in my games, and Megacorps that can't 'game the local system' to its advantage - especially where whole segments of the local population aren't permitted to be its 'customers' by local law - will go elsewhere for investment.

The 3rd Imperium is forced by its own '100 diameters out' to recognize, within certain expectations, local restrictions on personal freedoms. Imperial SPA though, has the option of granting asylum in special cases, but circumstances of available space, the Imperium's relationship with the planet, the planet's importance to the interstellar neighborhood, etc. will be taken into account.

The Imperium armed services, bureaucracy and Imperial territory, operate under much more socially liberal social guidelines most planets within the Imperium, to try to accomodate the majority of the populace these agencies draw from, both human and non-human.

------

Its been interesting the last few months, rewatching all of DS9 from beginning to end (averaging about 2 episodes every night), watching the whole evolution the Ferengi arc, (worker's and female's rights mostly) - that while pursued/promoted by those most in need of the changes, the arguments are all couched solely in terms of financial benefit to those in power. A world like Ferenginar could exist within the frameworld of the Imperium and pretty much be completely unhampered by Imperial law.

Offworld it becomes another story altogether as members of the race are no longer beholden to their homeworld's influences, but must follow the new local rules. They could still -follow- the homeworld's laws voluntarily - Quark believed he was ruined when he lost his Feringi business license - even though DS9 was a Federation administered neutral world's space station - Feringi's trade laws -should- have no local sway, except through, maybe, treaty.

An Imperial example, the Geonee, might have enclaves on non-Geonee worlds following their 'cultural' perogatives, but locally none of those 'traditions' may hold any legal status (marriage, property, etc.). If for some reason a Geonee female suddenly sought out her own personal freedom on such a world, the Geonee locals couldn't enforce their will on her.

There's some parallels to the whole European countries trying to deal with enclaves of muslims trying to live under Sharia law seperate from the local law. Allowing them to do so relinquishes the local government's sovereignty, something many world governments will try to avoid.

------

'Course, most of my settings are extra-Imperial territories (Hanstone sector, 2180's AD, Foreven during the early 1100's Imperial, etc.), so worlds that don't even follow the Imperium's minimalist social guidelines crop up fairly often - slavery, subversion of a sentient's free will through cybernetics, drugs, euthenasia of cloned uplifted subjects in 'batches' through the experimental phase, interstellar restrictions against certain races doing business within an interstellar political boundary, etc. are all available to play with.

When I create these systems, its for story purposes, not for preaching (well, not consciously - we all bring our own baggage to the gaming table to some extent - its unavoidable), and certainly not to condone the behavior of these worlds, but to show that in a universe as big as Traveller's, there will always be pockets of nastiness and horror, alien (or all too familiar 'human') 'wrongness' that locally is the norm, and worlds where the system's so gamed by the powers that be, that there's little chance of the totalitarian institutions, immortal dictators, and all around bastards 'getting their just deserts' - unless the players have something to do with it.

(end ramble)

 

[DFW]

Interesting question. IMTU each world pop determines that. The Imperium only cares about High Laws and lets member worlds do what they want internally. So, there is no overall policy that effects world populations.

 

[far-trader]

If I recall correctly there are two long standing Imperium wide rules governing member worlds dirtside:

1 - No use of nukes (and, IMTU at least, other persistent WMDs).

2 - No interference with interstellar commerce.

The first often seems misinterpreted by players as limiting the use of nukes in space. I've never seen this as the interpretation or practical. Given the minute size of Classic Traveller missiles (50kg) and the serious punch (1D6 hits compared to 1 hit for a beam laser and 2 hits for a pulse laser) about the only thing that made sense to me is a small (clean) nuke warhead. That said I don't permit them for civilian use imtu, just conventional warheads doing 1 hit. Only properly accredited mercs and navies get nukes (legally anyway). And they don't use them against worlds. Use of nukes in local world conflicts gets you stepped on hard by Imperial Forces and you will be under an occupation force.

The second covers such infractions as supplying or harboring pirates* or limiting reasonable access to the Starport.

* and yes, mtu does indeed have pirates, though you might not recognize them, they're not (usually) the oh so cliche shot across the bow and turn on the flaming eye pirates hailing a "Heave to scum or we'll blast ya, ar!" (and that's a topic for another thread, done several times over already )

There is a possible third, already mentioned, against slavery. But to be honest I don't recall where that first came in and never really used it. I'm of a mind to agree that it might apply more to transporting slaves between worlds but I seem to recall a couple or more adventures that could or did imply slavery (and worse) in action and not being an issue for the Imperium.

And there might be more I'm forgetting.

 

[travlar]

I'm fairly sure 'no slavery' is one of the Imperium's laws, but I don't know where I got that from, so I could certainly be wrong.

 

[beowulf2044]

Quote from a Traveller game: "All, right, we'll take the Aslan and the Vargr. But we don't want the Blue Darrians!"

 

[sabredog]

Sex: The players IMTU long ago discovered girls so we really don't worry about this sort of thing in my game. Never really have; MTU is for doing all the things you can't do in real life - but if that includes describing sex and who/what you want it with, well, just save it for your vampire game and the rest of us will go have adventures in space.

Slavery: got it, the Terran Empire has re-instituted it as part of the penal system. Outside if that it is illegal, but rumors persist in a black market trade in slaves on the frontiers.

Racism: The reptilian geneering aliens are the evil empire and everyone hates them, the reptile-like psionic felines are secretive and everyone is afraid of their psi potential so everybody distrusts them, the hyena-like marsupials are despised as untrustworthy by the humans (and likewise by the hyena-types) but used as cannon-fodder mercs by the megacorps or as useful idiots by the evil reptiles, and the lesser races are viewed as "poor, benighted heathens" or useful pawns by everybody.

Mankind has been among the stars for over 400 years, so while some of the old names may have ethnic lineage to them, and some worlds hold on to "the old ways" depending on who originally settled them, nobody cares anymore more about your original backgrounds (unless you are a noble). Cosmetic surgery (or an organlegger) can get you a whole rebuild so how anyone looks hardly counts, either.

Males n' females all do nearly anything that they want to within the social and cultural structures of their society or race. Although, among the human noble class there is a rising belief that women should not serve in the military in a combat role. But that's among the nobility which is currently influenced heavily by the Emperor's opinions, and being from Somerheim he is of the old Boer types who made the second Voortrek in 2100 to escape the globalization policies of Earth at that time. So he's of the opinion that women should be attending to the estate and socializing, not killing each other. That's ok for the lower classes, though.

Cloning: yeah, organ and whole body replacement exists if you can afford it. The farther from the core you get the less likely that is. But your friendly neighborhood organlegger can set fix you up maybe.

The frontier worlds were left behind as the old Confederation collapsed in on itself during the last war, but now they are being courted by the resurgent Empire to "bring them back into the fold". The megacorps that run most of these worlds want none of that, and neither do most of the colonists who take the view, "The Empire left us, we didn't leave the Empire." So, having to fend for themselves now they kinda want it to stay that way.

Accordingly the Empire is getting applying more pressure of various kinds (not military, yet) and the frontier worlds are grouping together in case things get testy later. The Colonial Fleet even has it's own issues with the way it is treated as opposed to the Imperial Fleet (budget, the kind of personnel sent out to serve there, lack of good equipment), so there are rumors of the frontier worlds being able to count on the Colonial Fleet if there is trouble with the Empire.

 

[Seriayne]

hyena-like marsupials

I dunno why, but I find that six kinds of awesome for some reason.

 

[sabredog]

I dunno why, but I find that six kinds of awesome for some reason.

They can be amusing since the players are interacting with them more and more lately since the Prox are asserting their influence in the vacuum created by the withdrawal of the Imperial borders where the live. So like it or not they are becoming either a major nuisance or potential boon depending on your take on them.

The Megacorps and local clusters of worlds trying to carve out small empires of their own use them a lot for private troops and security. They are cheap, plentiful, and good in combat...but unfortunately they sometimes can turn on you if some back dealing was done. So they require a firm hand and watchful eye. A lot like the various mercenary companies used by the city states of Italy who would go through the motions and then take the money, but nothing was achieved. Or they might decide one side can cut them a better deal.

The Colonial Navy hates them because they engage in piracy, and the legal merchant houses under Imperial Charters that the Prox have are often indistinguishable from pirate kingdoms depending on what ship is whose, and where they are operating. But the Charters often make it hard to nail a tricky Prox merchant who is skating on the razor thin edge of illegality.

And human colonists fear them because when they first encountered the Prox tales were told of colonies vanishing in the night, demons who howled in the darkness of strange worlds and ate children. And the Prox are, in some places, fighting colonists in hit and run raids to try to take back some worlds that the old Confederacy conquered a couple hundred years ago when the Prox were the first alien species encountered.

The Imperials try to "handle" them, but various societies that have sprung up to "civilize" the Prox, and get a lot of money from noble families with influence, often make it difficult to even help arm and protect the colonists on the frontiers who need it. But then, that's a plot point which allows the PC's to come in and do some gun-running or such to help the colonist keep back the howling hordes of neobarbarian aliens.

 

[Icosahedron]

Wow, this thread took some necromancing - I didn't see it before, cos it died before I even joined!
Still, it looks like an interesting topic.

My TU? Well, I have the Imperium dealing with a few High Laws, which they expect member worlds to enforce dirtside. Failure to do so would bring whatever political/military pressure was necessary to bring the local government on side.

Not an exclusive list, but:
No Nukes (or WMDs)
No Interference with Interstellar Commerce
No Murder
No Rape
No Torture
No Slavery
No Exploitation of Minors

These are the Imperium's Seven Deadly Sins, which will be prosecuted wherever they raise their ugly heads.
However, raise them they do, and the PCs may find themselves in the thick of it - fighting it, reporting it, perpetrating it...
Local culture and the original deadly sins all help to keep these new ones flourishing.

As for lesser laws, including issues of equality, privacy, political freedom, etc, I try not to preach in my games, but I do make deliberate attempts to display a wider picture. There are millions of potential cultures out there and I often throw in a few ideas to get the players thinking what if there's a world that doesn't follow Western Terran political/religious mores? How would such a world work? What are the consequences of the differences? Is it better, worse, or merely different? How do we decide? Is it fair to judge others by our own preferences? Etc.
For example:
Here's a world where public nudity is the norm.
Here's a world where caste determines your life.
Here's a world where prostitution is just another trade.
Here's a world where drugs are a matter of personal choice.
Here's a world where illness and poverty are seen as natural selection.
Here's a world where everyone can carry any weapon they choose.
Here's a world where strict curfews are in force.
Here's a world where any event could be the will of God and should not be interfered with.
Here's a world where suicide and euthanasia are seen as public duties.
Here's a world where non-cyborgs are disdained as 'meat monkeys'.

Do the PCs carry their own Prime Directive to live and let live, or do they embark on a personal crusade to impose 'propriety' on the local culture?

Controvertially, perhaps, as my players explore MTU they learn which of these lesser rules are socially acceptable across the wider empire, and the answer may not be what they were expecting...

I reckon MTU is not very Politically Correct. It would be such a boring place if it were...

 

[Sanjuro]

Me too Icosahedron, 7 years before I joined in fact!
It seems a bit pointless to answer a post from 8 years ago, but the actual British Army tradition was:
Captains may marry.
Majors should.
Colonels must.

Subalterns (Lieutenants or 2nd Lieutenants) who marry were considered to have ended their careers; subalterns being considered expendable, one who suddenly had dependants was therefore putting other interests ahead of duty.

Note that this only covers officers. The other saying was:
Officers and their ladies.
Sergeants and their wives.
Other Ranks and their women.