General How often does mail arrive at the local Starport?

[Spinward Flow]

For any planet with TL9+ and a halfway decent population, there are literally of hundreds of fusion plants on-world all of which want refined fuel.

Jump drives "need" refined fuel to avoid misjumps.
Small craft operate PERFECTLY FINE on unrefined fuel.
Stationary fusion power plants on planetary surfaces can likewise run on unrefined fuel just fine, so long as you keep up their annual overhaul maintenance schedule.

In other words, only jump drives are "finicky drinkers" that require refined fuel for optimal performance.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Jump drives "need" refined fuel to avoid misjumps.
Small craft operate PERFECTLY FINE on unrefined fuel.
Stationary fusion power plants on planetary surfaces can likewise run on unrefined fuel just fine, so long as you keep up their annual overhaul maintenance schedule.

In other words, only jump drives are "finicky drinkers" that require refined fuel for optimal performance.

This is not necessarily the case in LBB2.

LBB2'81, p.6: Drive Failure. Weekly roll 13+; +1 for dirty fuel, +1DM per absent engineer*, +1DM per week overdue annual overhaul. If so, roll 7+ once for each drive in use to stop working entirely (note: this second roll means that it might not affect any of the drives). Roll 10+ each day to repair, +DM: Eng skill. Batteries last 1D days for life support. This repair is temporary.

The misjump rules are in the section immediately following the drive failure rules.

That said, this section of the rules is nominally for starships, so it might not apply to small craft, non-starships, or stationary installations.


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*This, oddly, hits larger ships disproportionately hard. You'd think that a ship with one of its dozen engineers absent wouldn't be as likely to have a mishap as one whose only engineer is gone, but that's the rule. I suppose that's what comes of writing rules for an RPG rather than a formal manpower analysis for industrial systems.

 

[Baroun Tardis]

We seem to be headed off into an entirely separate topic...why traveller star-port classes aren't rational. For any planet with TL9+ and a halfway decent population, there are literally of hundreds of fusion plants on-world all of which want refined fuel. And if they don't have a halfway decent population, the first guy to realise that selling hydrogen is a profitable enterprise will do so. After all, you don't need to sell many dTons of fuel to pay for a small processor.

I was under the impression that water was fine for normal power generation
The only time refined made a difference was for Jump drives...
Now, I can see the guy with the high performance chick-magnet grav-Corvette putting refined fuel in it, but I suspect most people just pour what's left in the water bottle when it gets too warm to drink in there

 

[McPerth]

Show me where in the rules it says you can mix and match?

Show me where rules forbid it... We're even there, I'm afraid.

No refined fuel - you are class C or lower.

So, in your opinion, a C starport cannot have refined fuel, nor shypyards capable to make major repairs, yet, according LLB5:HG, the system may build ships for the planetary navy (page 20)

A planetary navy may procure ships at any shipyard within the borders of its subsector; alternatively, a planetary navy may construct ships on its planet, using local resources, even if a shipyard is not present.

IMHO, the given definitions is the minimum you'll fins in a Starport, but it may have better facilities in one or two fields. So, a class C (or even D) starporti might have refined fuel, but would not become a class B unless it has also shipyards capable to build spaceships and to make yearly overhauls.

That's as the star rating for hotels in RL, to be a four star hotel, you need many facilitites, but some three star ones also have some of those facilitites, despite not requiring them to be a three star.

And as I said before, if a class C (or D) starport has no refined fuel but enough trafic, sure some entrepneur will set up a refinery and sell refined fuel (but maybe at Cr 600-750/ton instead than Cr 500...)

 

[mike wightman]

Show me where rules forbid it... We're even there, I'm afraid.

No we are not. That is the most spurious response you can have.
Where do the rules say a jump drive can time travel? It doesn't, but it doesn't say you can't, so by your logic they can jump forward and backward in time. i could cite many more such examples.
The rules describe what is allowed, so by your logic anything that isn't in the rules is also allowed? Now I am aware the referee can make stuff up, but the rules describe the setting before we modify it. The unmodified rules describe the starport class, changing it is a house rule.

So, in your opinion, a C starport cannot have refined fuel, nor shypyards capable to make major repairs, yet, according LLB5:HG, the system may build ships for the planetary navy (page 20)

There is a big difference between what a government can do and a civilian starport, and you are risk of bringing up the tired old debate of incomatibility between what HG says and what LBB1-3 say and what happens in the setting.

IMHO, the given definitions is the minimum you'll fins in a Starport, but it may have better facilities in one or two fields. So, a class C (or even D) starporti might have refined fuel, but would not become a class B unless it has also shipyards capable to build spaceships and to make yearly overhauls.

In your opinion - not what the rules state. It's fanon, not canon. It makes sense though.

That's as the star rating for hotels in RL, to be a four star hotel, you need many facilitites, but some three star ones also have some of those facilitites, despite not requiring them to be a three star.

And as I said before, if a class C (or D) starport has no refined fuel but enough trafic, sure some entrepneur will set up a refinery and sell refined fuel (but maybe at Cr 600-750/ton instead than Cr 500...)

There are no refineries in LBB1-3 that a private individual can set up, or refined fuel would be available at every planet.

 

[Baroun Tardis]

So, in your opinion, a C starport cannot have refined fuel, nor shypyards capable to make major repairs, yet, according LLB5:HG, the system may build ships for the planetary navy (page 20)

I kinda see that one as there being a "Mini-A" port that's not open to the public: a shipyard and planetary naval support facilities that are only open to the planetary navy

On the other hand, the idea of a "Mini-A" does support your idea of there being an expanded list of starport types: A,a,B,b,C,c,D,d,E

Or maybe B- and C+?

 

[coliver988]

I think this thread had a bunch of these ideas developed about startports: COTI Starports!

And I think the "must have ALL the requirements for a type <x> port" can imply that they may have some of the components, just not all. IMTU that is how it works at any rate. Otherwise there would be a LOT of missing ships due to jump failures. And that would bring us to whatever thread that talked about insurance...

 

[Condottiere]

Water would be defined as unrefined fuel.

If liquid hydrogen is the refined product, then understanding the current method and cost of transformation could be used for non Alpha and Beta class starports.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Water would be defined as unrefined fuel.

If liquid hydrogen is the refined product, then understanding the current method and cost of transformation could be used for non Alpha and Beta class starports.

The way I see it, the original notion of unrefined fuel leaned heavily on the mechanics of gas giant skimming. While a ship would aim to skim at an altitude where the atmosphere was mostly hydrogen, that air would likely not be purely hydrogen.

If the ship was cracking water into hydrogen and oxygen (and discarding the latter), the resulting hydrogen would likely be fairly pure -- but there still might be residual contamination in the tanks that were used for the process.

I'm not sure how this applies to "official" planetside refueling operations though -- do they just provide fire hoses and let the ships take care of cracking the hydrogen out themselves? If they can provide liquid hydrogen at all, they can almost always provide it in pure form.

 

[Condottiere]

A common method of obtaining liquid hydrogen involves a compressor resembling a jet engine in both appearance and principle. Liquid hydrogen is typically used as a concentrated form of hydrogen storage. Storing it as liquid takes less space than storing it as a gas at normal temperature and pressure. However, the liquid density is very low compared to other common fuels. Once liquefied, it can be maintained as a liquid in thermally insulated containers.[6]

 

[Grav_Moped]

A common method of obtaining liquid hydrogen involves a compressor resembling a jet engine in both appearance and principle. Liquid hydrogen is typically used as a concentrated form of hydrogen storage. Storing it as liquid takes less space than storing it as a gas at normal temperature and pressure. However, the liquid density is very low compared to other common fuels. Once liquefied, it can be maintained as a liquid in thermally insulated containers.[6]

Liquid Hydrogen (Wikipedia)

 

[whartung]

And as I said before, if a class C (or D) starport has no refined fuel but enough trafic, sure some entrepneur will set up a refinery and sell refined fuel (but maybe at Cr 600-750/ton instead than Cr 500...)

Then it wouldn't be a Class C.

Class C, by definition, by RAW, FOR WHATEVER REASON, does not have refined fuel. Something (Referee's discretion) has prevented the development of a refining capacity on that world.

The rules are full of inexplicable things.

 

[Timerover51]

Water is actually a quite efficient way to store hydrogen for use. A ton of liquid hydrogen occupies a volume of approximately 14 cubic meters. You only need 9 cubic meters of water to have a ton of hydrogen. Admittedly, that 9 cubic meters of water does weight 9 tons, but you do get 8 tons of oxygen from it. That oxygen can be used to maintain a breathable atmosphere onboard of your ship.

 

[Condottiere]

That discussion has percolated occasionally.

I think the greatest density was supposedly either ethanol or liquified natural gas, I forget which.

 

[McPerth]

Where do the rules say a jump drive can time travel?

Well, I remember some adventure where jump has time travelled to future...

Even so, rules and setting make quite clear controlled time travel is not possible (at least at "current" tech, so I'd say you cannot.

There are no refineries in LBB1-3 that a private individual can set up, or refined fuel would be available at every planet.

Then it wouldn't be a Class C.

Class C, by definition, by RAW, FOR WHATEVER REASON, does not have refined fuel. Something (Referee's discretion) has prevented the development of a refining capacity on that world.

Refineries exist in LBB 1-3, as the existence of refined fuel implies them (unless, of course, refined fuel magically appears when a starport is rated A or B), just there are no specified rules for them. But there are neither rules about how often you character has to visit the head, and yet it's implied in being humans (and I guess most other races, in one way or another)...

And yes, refiend fuel may be avilable in any starport, just it's not guaranteed in those rated C- (and even less guaranteed at standard price). ITTR an adentrue where a C class starport wa defined as having refiend fuel in limited quantities.

I guess the facility rated in a way similar to starports most of us have used are hotels, and, as I said, the rating tells you what facilities and services are guaranteed by rate, not that there cannot be more.

A C rated starport guarantees you unrefiend fuel and reasonable repair facilities, but does not guarantee you there are no more than this. If such a starport decides to build a refienery, then what? It becomes a class B as it has it (despite not having the proper yards)? It's forbidden by the Imperium (or whoever rates the starports) to build it unless it also builds the shipyards?

As Hans (God have him) used to say: It has to make sense

 

[Condottiere]

Imperium mandated retail price (control) of fuel (grades).

 

[frankm]

Regarding the mail timing, I think it will arrive from different planets at different rates. Populous planets will send data to populous nearby worlds very frequently, but even X-boats can't be too wasteful of fuel. Is once per day enough? IMTU, bases (scout, naval, and consulates) are required to send at least 1 vessel per week to all other bases within 5 parsecs. Many bases have to send out a couple dozen ships per week, minimum, and each takes 1 week or so to reach its destination. I suspect there's a market for the Jump-6 courier who leaves for a major world 6 parsecs away as soon as a momentous event (financial, political, whatever) happens in some significant system. That extra time between being brought by X-boat vs. private ship could be worth a fortune to the right people.
We live in a world of news every minute, 24 hours a day. I think it's hard for us to imagine how we would deal with such out of date information being the best available. It certainly seems to make haste a waste.

 

[Grav_Moped]

I suspect there's a market for the Jump-6 courier who leaves for a major world 6 parsecs away as soon as a momentous event (financial, political, whatever) happens in some significant system. That extra time between being brought by X-boat vs. private ship could be worth a fortune to the right people.

The problem is that either you'd have a very expensive ship sitting around for long periods, or need to run 3 of them in continuous rotation to have lower message latency than doing the trip as two consecutive Jump-3s.

IMTU I've set up some of them as "canaries" (the main message they carry is that they left under normal circumstances -- it's when one of them goes missing that you know something's very very wrong), and others are indeed standing by to bypass the XBoat routes to carry word of catastrophe. But these are explicitly governmental projects.

 

[Condottiere]

Depends on benefits.

The Rothschilds had a personal express courier service, that allowed them to exploit (financially) news of events, usually on the stock market.

Currently, financial institutions pay to have their servers as close as possible to stock exchanges, where latency in nanoseconds make the differences in arbitrage profits.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

Mixing water and L-Hyd in the same tank may be a bit of a problem.