How common is Battle Dress?

[McPerth]

3I is loaded. I mean they have a relatively huge military expenditure per other threads. Front line marines could easily be BD ready. Yet we see in military character creation that not everyone picks up the skill.

That depends on the Traveller versión you play. In MgT any Marine receives Battledress 0 as basic training (as it's in serice skills table).

That begs another question: Is Battledress the functional equivalent of Starship Troopers armor, or closer to 2300 Walkers? I see it in the higher tech levels as equal to Starship Troopers armored suits.

As stated in former posts this same thread, I believe it's more the equivalent to Starship Troopers armor (but with gravitics added).

 

[savage]

That depends on the Traveller versión you play. In MgT any Marine receives Battledress 0 as basic training (as it's in serice skills table).

Right. As i mentioned Marines should have BD available.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Just in general there's got to be more than the variations listed in the OTR. When I first read the rules for BD as a pre-teen I figured they were describing top of the line armor for heavy units on board MEUs that were attached to mainline naval units; i.e. a CVBG or BB / DN group needing some ground forces to take some planet would have an MEU with marines kitted with the big bulky "nearly impervious to all small arms" kind of powered armor.

But, that in addition there would be a sort of "baseline" or "no-frills" battledress that didn't have the same kind of augmentation or other bells and whistles as the MEU troops, or troops assigned to important positions. And perhaps the armor itself wasn't as strong.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Kicking it old school.

Me, in all my TUs whether OTU or ATU my Marines are all BD and my cadre units of the Imperial Army have BD.

See, you can not blame poor Loren for this either, but you can blame our Patron Saints, Heinlein and Haldman. If not for Starship Troopers and The Forever War I never would have considered all my troopers in BattleDress but after I never let them go out without it.

All BattleDress all the time! And yes kids we, the Imperium do not pay retail for that either.

 

[Spartan159]

I thought the Imperium printed BD like lesser powers print cash *grin*

 

[savage]

Sure. But timeline has something to do with it to. In the Golden Era BD for one and all makes sense. But planetary defenses, 3I marines of the 800s or earlier may have also used combat armor.

 

[SanDragon]

"Know that it is the year ten thousand one ninety one..."

 

[mike wightman]

Something that has always bugged me is the introduction of combat armour with the same protection as battledress.
Why not up armour the battledress - you could add an extra 50kg and still have 50kg left for weapons.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I would think Combat Armor is more the norm. The stock grunt IMTU usually wore a combat environmentla suit with CA plating here and there. Something akin to a motorcross armor suit, only it's resistant to most small arms.

It differed from full CA in that it wasn't a full CA suit, and didn't have the weight penalties associated with a full CA suit. And even then I had the notion that it probably came in different camo flavors, and different weights as degree of protection differed.

 

[jec10]

Something that has always bugged me is the introduction of combat armour with the same protection as battledress.
Why not up armour the battledress - you could add an extra 50kg and still have 50kg left for weapons.

I'm with you - it was completely crazy when they made combat armour in Striker offer the same protection as Battle Dress. Undermined the whole rationale for power armour. It makes no sense that you could put that much armour on non-power suits and lug it about. There should be a marked difference in protection level.

 

[Blue Ghost]

And also probably the weight penalty. Higher tech materials for ballistic plating, I would think, would make combat armor quite reasonable in terms of weight.

 

[kilemall]

I'm with you - it was completely crazy when they made combat armour in Striker offer the same protection as Battle Dress. Undermined the whole rationale for power armour. It makes no sense that you could put that much armour on non-power suits and lug it about. There should be a marked difference in protection level.

I have a discussion on that in the CT forum I believe you are following. I did the Rigid BD suits with an additional wrap of CA plate over the BD suit.

With say using up 80 of the 100 kg additional carry capacity one should be able to get an even higher value, and I think the suits are using an ultralight version of armor so they should have the option to be even better.

Of course, some forces may value logistical carry capacity over heavy weapon survival.

BD was the same as CA, or rather CA was declared to be the same as BD, since it's intro in LBB1.

My longer term issue is that in the Striker tech tree, armor permanently loses against weapons, particularly the RAM GL. Why bother with the zillion dollar suit that can be taken down by a TL8 scrub with a GL?

 

[McPerth]

Something that has always bugged me is the introduction of combat armour with the same protection as battledress.
Why not up armour the battledress - you could add an extra 50kg and still have 50kg left for weapons.

See that if you make heavier armor, (let's say your 50 kg), while the increased strength may make it irrelevant for you trooper, it is not for the vehicles.

One of the (several) flaws I saw in MT (I don't own striker, but as I have read here that MT is based on it I asume it happens too) vehicles design is that it does not count the passenger's weight in its loaded mass. WHile this may make sense in extended acomodations (after all, if a stateroom weights 4 tons passenger weight is nearly irrelevant), it is not for seats in smaller vehicles.

A seat mas is 20 kg, wether occupied or not. A single person is weighting more than that...

Personally, I house ruled that 100 kg were addeed per passenger (human scale)¹. If the trooper has 50 kg of armor on him, the added mass would be 150 kg per trooper, and probably vehicle's performance would begin to suffer (see that dor an APC that carries 10 troopers, that's half a ton more)...

Note 1: if you look at any MT vehicle I posted in this board, you'll find this rule applied, and usually explained too​

I'm with you - it was completely crazy when they made combat armour in Striker offer the same protection as Battle Dress. Undermined the whole rationale for power armour. It makes no sense that you could put that much armour on non-power suits and lug it about. There should be a marked difference in protection level.

BD and CA are equivalent for combat pourposes in CT (and in MT, IIRC, where its protection depends on TL). The only place I've seen with different protection is in AHL. The advantages for BD are in augmented strength and senses (hence the +2 to surprise), not in protection.

 

[kilemall]

Just looking up crewing in Striker McPerth, it's pretty nuanced in that there is both a crew station weight and space cost, and you can add on things like cockpit armor and ejection seats.

Quite a bit heavier, the average crew station is 100 kg, passenger is 300 kg per 4 (or 75 kg per), and the 1-1.5 m3 space of course costs chassis engine power and armor to support.

The example Panther tank in the vehicle build does not have a weight charge for the crew itself (stations end up being 1 ton), if you do, the 400 kg total is 1% of the 42 ton weight of the tank so not a lot of impact on vehicle performance.

A much lighter vehicle designed for airspeeds and a higher percentage of passengers will likely be more sensitive to passenger weight. One would want to watch equipment/gear weight too, that is likely going to be more dense and costly to performance per cubic meter.

 

[mike wightman]

I wouldn't carry BD troops to battle in APCs, they should be dispersed via grav belt movement.

One killed APC is an economic disaster, losing eight highly trained (expensive) troops and their hideously expensive armour just compounds the loss.

One of the BD squad could carry a manportable point defence system to protect the squad from ram grenades - by the time of T4 BD has a point defence laser built in to take care of those pesky ram grenades.

 

[McPerth]

I wouldn't carry BD troops to battle in APCs, they should be dispersed via grav belt movement.

One killed APC is an economic disaster, losing eight highly trained (expensive) troops and their hideously expensive armour just compounds the loss.

Not in combat zones, but they will to move to them (to save BD battery).

 

[Condottiere]

Overloading battle dress with armour may have consequences in regard to ground pressure, unless you'r galoshing around in snow shoes.

The APCs probably are equipped with USB 310 outlets to charge up the battle dress batteries.

 

[mike wightman]

Not in combat zones, but they will to move to them (to save BD battery).

Use small craft - mass is not an issue =)

 

[Spartan159]

I figure BD for using Fusion +

 

[kilemall]

Overloading battle dress with armour may have consequences in regard to ground pressure, unless you'r galoshing around in snow shoes.

The APCs probably are equipped with USB 310 outlets to charge up the battle dress batteries.

Grav assist baby!

Seriously, might be part of the surprise advantage, literally gliding noiselessly down hallways with no footsteps.