House Rules, Starship Design

[jwcarroll60]

The small ship universe does seem to make more sense. One thing I've always wondered about is why there is the 1 hardpoint to 100Dton rule? Is some sort of bracing for recoil infered? Does there need to be a certain minimum volume for survivability (damage absorption?)? Is it to provide for infrastructure like corridors, power conduits, and computer fiber optics cables?

 

[The Oz]

In a CT small-ship universe (biggest ships under 20,000 dtons, say) I never bothered with spinals. Bay weapons were quite enough. If you use a Book2 combat system variant small-ship universe tonnage that would be used for spinals tends to be used for fighters which are far more dangerous to warships in such a universe.

The real reason the 1 hardpoint/100 tons of ship rule exists is game balance, to keep players from putting guns all over every ship. I tried to justify it to PCs as a "surface area" requirement (this was long before MT or FFS). That didn't work really well, but hey.....

Anyone have a better "handwavium" answer for that?

 

[Straybow]

No, there is no reason other than play-balance. It's as good a solution to the question as any other.

[lecture mode] At one point the US Army had a light tank or APC armed with 5 or 6 106mm recoilless guns. It was not more effective in its designated role than less expensive equipment. In the military soldiers and vehicles work together to accomplish missions and engender survivability.

Soldiers and vehicles are armed according to their mission. There are vehicles that are "overgunned," platforms barely large enough to mount the weapon. They are generally called "artillery." They depend on other units designed with maneuverability or armor (and lesser weapons) to minimize their vulnerability.

For the lone merchant or merc survival is the primary mission. It's a boolean function in which having more weapons can make a huge difference. There will be some limit based on structural integrity, and soft limits based on mass and maneuverability, and practical limits based on compromising cargo capacity for defense.

I consider the age of sail a good example. The size of the ship constrained the strength of decking and structure, which in turn constrained the maximum size gun that could be supported. Dynamics of bouyancy limited the number of guns and their height above the waterline. Seaworthiness limited the proximity of gunports to the waterline.

In space there are few such constraints. Bouyancy is a nonissue and dynamics of motion are simplified compared to floating a ship. Advanced weapons don't have recoil problems, nor depend on massive construction for structural integrity.

There were critical break-points in the age of sail: the minimum size ship that could have 24-pounders or better, the minimum size ship that could have two full gun decks, and the minimum for two full decks of 24-pounders. Each involves a compromise of speed and maneuverability.

Whatever system is proposed will have similar break points and compromises. Personally, I would like a design system that allows extra arms with appropriate space and mass costs. Q ships are one excellent example of "breaking the rules" with an overgunned ship. The challenge is making a system that isn't itself broken.

[ oh, uh, /lecture mode]

 

[Uncle Bob]

The Ontos. Used by the U.S. Marines, and it might have been useful if they had to face anyone with tanks in the 1960s. It was certainly prized during the battle of Hue for direct fire support.

Otherwise, I concur, Straybow

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
The Ontos. Used by the U.S. Marines, and it might have been useful if they had to face anyone with tanks in the 1960s. It was certainly prized during the battle of Hue for direct fire support.

Otherwise, I concur, Straybow

They are rather dangerously cool looking though.

Ontos

I like the one site google hit that called them "the world's biggest shot gun".

How very Traveller

 

[mike wightman]

I've sometimes allowed players to get away with fitting extra turrets, but there are limitations.
First, the jump bubble and inertial dampening field can only just be extented to include the standard turrets. The extra turrets must therefore be retractable "pop" turrets which I rule take up 5 tons of hull space (including fire control).
Second, the power plant has to be of a higher rating than the maneuver drive (just like the double fire program - which can be still run, but only if the power plant is two letters higher), otherwise only missile racks and sandcasters can be mounted in the extra turret(s).
Finally, don't forget the extra gunners that must be carried, their staterooms, salaries and life support costs. No weapon batteries in Book 2 combat

 

[Ran Targas]

My crew is currently running around in a highly modified Type S.

So far they have:
- torn out all the interior, non-structural, bulk heads for added room and a few tons
- ripped out the kitchen and entertainment equipment (all game boys and bag lunches)
- installed a salvaged military sensor package with antennaes using stateroom and common area space
- traded cargo tonnage for a probe launcher
- traded more tonnage for sensor absorbant panels mounted on the upper hull
- dumped their airraft and bay for a decoy launcher
- added some conformal blisters to the upper hull (mostly to protect antennae and some for storage)

Obviously there are no tonnage rules for this but we did it with a focus on realism. The real goal was to rebuild the Type S as a stripped down, military style vessel (with no comforts) vice a cushy civilian model.

 

[The Oz]

I've allowed my PCs to do things like that from time to time. There's just no way to write rules for everything, and there's no substitute for having the ref and the players sit down and talk things out.

It makes it more fun, and it give the PCs more feeling of control.

 

[infojunky]

Does anyone out there have their own house rules, whether for Book2 or HG, covering the design of starships?

Thanks!

How about a little thread necromancy in light of current topics…

 

[Grav_Moped]

Quick and dirty: Use T5 drives in LBB2 ships. Ok, it's not so quick once you start having to calculate the TL Stage Effects, but it does introduce some of the feel of the LBB5 TL paradigm. And it fixes the LBB2 "10Td/Pn power plant fuel" issue.

 

[aramis]

How about a little thread necromancy in light of current topics…

My last customized ship rules set was almost a decade ago...
all the campaign docs are at http://aramis.hostman.us/ec/body.html - the ship creation is in the players guide... and the full GM's version, too.

 

[kilemall]

My current set is a redo of LBB5 with most of the systems and builds intact, except armor is tougher to fit on smaller ships, the missiles are essentially ships built to 50ton and 750 ton ships then divided by 1000 in size and cost, M-drives go to 10G at TL15 and tailsitting/inertial dampening is a thing, and the combat rules are different and maneuver based, so different combinations are desirable then the 'traditional' ones.

 

[kilemall]

In a CT small-ship universe (biggest ships under 20,000 dtons, say) I never bothered with spinals. Bay weapons were quite enough. If you use a Book2 combat system variant small-ship universe tonnage that would be used for spinals tends to be used for fighters which are far more dangerous to warships in such a universe.

The real reason the 1 hardpoint/100 tons of ship rule exists is game balance, to keep players from putting guns all over every ship. I tried to justify it to PCs as a "surface area" requirement (this was long before MT or FFS). That didn't work really well, but hey.....

Anyone have a better "handwavium" answer for that?

My handwavium for hardpoint counts is that a lot of the actual hardware for the weapon is crammed up in that same crawlspace as fuel tanks/lines, control runs, power conduits, etc. plus ship structural support/integrity. There is enough room for one weapon without compromising hull strength, damage control alternate lines, etc.

I allow people to put in more weapons, but the ship becomes more fragile to general hits and fails earlier. Think Missile Boats from Imperium.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Speaking of ship turrets ... at TL=10+ all turrets become unmanned and are instead computer controlled from remote stations.
So it's only TL=9- that has a sophont gunner IN the turret itself (ala ball turrets on a B-17).

 

[robject]

I think the last "house rule" I did was to import High Guard's maneuver drive fuel usage into Book 2 ship design. Not much of a house rule, I guess.

At one point I think I scaled back the upper Book 2 drives and tried "stacking" them to power larger ships.

 

[Fovean]

No fuel purifiers on ships under 10,000 dtons.

 

[Spinward Flow]

No fuel purifiers on ships under 10,000 dtons.

 

[Fovean]

Yeah, we like our universe a little more rugged and dangerous.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Yeah, we like our universe a little more rugged and dangerous.

Try bulky and more expensive instead.

 

[infojunky]

Speaking of ship turrets ... at TL=10+ all turrets become unmanned and are instead computer controlled from remote stations.
So it's only TL=9- that has a sophont gunner IN the turret itself (ala ball turrets on a B-17).

I always assumed they where unmanned. Especially once I was in the Navy.