House Rules, Starship Design
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far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Do you mean the nuts and bolts gearheading side or the deckplan drawing translation of the figures? Or both, you could be asking for both
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I often design book 2 ships with weaponry from HG. To make sure there is enough energy I use the HG EP formula for the Book 2 power plant rating. If thera aren't enough EPs I add more power plants.
I usually use the HG power plant fuel formula, but only ever build in enough fuel to run the maneuver drive for 4 weeks. To make up for the extra EPs for weapons, screens, etc I reduce fuel duration depending on the length of the battle and the EPs needed.
I also add other components borrowed from T20 and GT.
I usually use the HG power plant fuel formula, but only ever build in enough fuel to run the maneuver drive for 4 weeks. To make up for the extra EPs for weapons, screens, etc I reduce fuel duration depending on the length of the battle and the EPs needed.
I also add other components borrowed from T20 and GT.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
I have two favorite house rules. One is that I say that Book 2 jump drives (and only Book 2 jump drives) do not require a powerplant. This goes back to the way things worked once upon a very long time ago. The Book 2 jump drives are very big and this makes up for it. The practical effect of this is that the powerplant of a ship only has to be as big as the maneuver drive.
The other is changing the fuel consumption of Book 2 powerplants to (10 dtons/month/drive letter numerical equivalent). So a PP-A needs 10 tons, a PP-F needs 60 tons, and a PP-Z need 240 tons. This is totally independent of how big the ship is. As a result, 100 ton ships get some space back (the classic Type S scout gets 10 tons of extra space), 200 ton ships are unaffected, and all larger ships have to give up a little space to carry the extra fuel. I have redesigned all the classic ships to conform with my rules. Usually they give up a little cargo space, or I cut out a ship's boat or reduce a pinnace to a launch or gig, that kind of stuff.
I have several more but they'd take too long to post about. I'm working on a web page where I can post all this stuff and ya'll can take shots at me.
The other is changing the fuel consumption of Book 2 powerplants to (10 dtons/month/drive letter numerical equivalent). So a PP-A needs 10 tons, a PP-F needs 60 tons, and a PP-Z need 240 tons. This is totally independent of how big the ship is. As a result, 100 ton ships get some space back (the classic Type S scout gets 10 tons of extra space), 200 ton ships are unaffected, and all larger ships have to give up a little space to carry the extra fuel. I have redesigned all the classic ships to conform with my rules. Usually they give up a little cargo space, or I cut out a ship's boat or reduce a pinnace to a launch or gig, that kind of stuff.
I have several more but they'd take too long to post about. I'm working on a web page where I can post all this stuff and ya'll can take shots at me.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Arr, load the 'canon' mates I know a target when I sees oneOriginally posted by The Oz:
<snip>
I have several more but they'd take too long to post about. I'm working on a web page where I can post all this stuff and ya'll can take shots at me.
Seriously those are both excellent house rules. I've played with the book 2 power plant problem myself but never found a simple system I liked. I finally ruled that since it was based so much on ship size that most of it was reaction mass and the fact that it only lasted a set time regardless of actual flight time meant it also served as a coolant reserve.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
Saying that most of the fuel is coolant or displacement mass/reaction mass works with jump fuel in Book 2 (or HG) but not with PP fuel. I changed things about powerplants because it always irritated me that a PP-A needed 20 tons of fuel a month in a 100-dton Type-S scout, but only needed =10= tons a month in a 200-dton Type-A Free Trader. Huh?????
You need =half= the fuel for =twice= the ship???? That's =real= fuel efficiency!!! I wish I could take the 4-cylinder engine out of my Ford Escort, stick it into a Lexus, and get twice the gas mileage out of it! And it's only worse with the bigger ships. Taken to the extreme, a PP-W (that all by itself is 64 dtons) in a 5000 dton ship still needs only =10= dtons of fuel every month to provide all the power needed and push the ship around at 1-G. This is silly. 
Besides, most of my PCs ran around in scouts, or maybe Far Traders. Very rarely anything much bigger. Changing the PP fuel usage made the little Scout/Courier more appealing (10 tons of extra space?!?!? Wow!!!
) and had no change at all on the standard 200-tonners. The fact that it "broke" some of the larger Book 2 ships was invisible to my players. Anyway, all of the bigger Book 2 ships could be fixed easily enough.
Straybow
SOC-14 1K
Reaction mass for thrust doesn't work (see Revising the science of Traveller p.3); vehicles using reaction mass for any significant acceleration need more fuel than ship (mass ratio >1).
HG EP ratings (1 EP = 250MW) don't work much better. The Standard Designs pdf shows this, where some ships computers use multiple EP (eg, a TL14 SDB Model/8 computer taking 9 EP = 2250MW
)! Life support, computers, and even sensors shouldn't take more than 0.001 EP. You can run everything from the waste heat of the main drives via thermocouples.
However, the EP scale works very well for gravitic maneuver power (see Going Pirate p.3 for a calc based on naturally occuring D2 fraction).
HG EP ratings (1 EP = 250MW) don't work much better. The Standard Designs pdf shows this, where some ships computers use multiple EP (eg, a TL14 SDB Model/8 computer taking 9 EP = 2250MW
)! Life support, computers, and even sensors shouldn't take more than 0.001 EP. You can run everything from the waste heat of the main drives via thermocouples.However, the EP scale works very well for gravitic maneuver power (see Going Pirate p.3 for a calc based on naturally occuring D2 fraction).
That is going to be one HOT computer room. Some of the server rooms I have worked in need a serious aircon system to keep them cool but all together they wouldn't draw a fraction of 2000 MW.Originally posted by Straybow:
The Standard Designs pdf shows this, where some ships computers use multiple EP (eg, a TL14 SDB Model/8 computer taking 9 EP = 2250MW
Never mind venting powerplant heat, that computer will cook the ship on its own
Originally posted by Captain Jonah:
Heh heh. Yeah, I always loved comparing real-world computer rooms with the SF computer rooms. Real world--lots of noise from the tape drives and air conditioning and stuff, and one or two blinking lights on each box. SF computer room, total silence, and blinking lights all over the place.Some of the server rooms I have worked in need a serious aircon system to keep them cool but all together they wouldn't draw a fraction of 2000 MW.
Never mind venting powerplant heat, that computer will cook the ship on its own
carl
You forgot to mention the thousands of colored flip switches need to run the SF computers.Originally posted by CarlP:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Captain Jonah:
Heh heh. Yeah, I always loved comparing real-world computer rooms with the SF computer rooms. Real world--lots of noise from the tape drives and air conditioning and stuff, and one or two blinking lights on each box. SF computer room, total silence, and blinking lights all over the place.Some of the server rooms I have worked in need a serious aircon system to keep them cool but all together they wouldn't draw a fraction of 2000 MW.
Never mind venting powerplant heat, that computer will cook the ship on its own
carl </font>
Dave
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Well in CT/HG/T20 the "computer" is also partly (imo) a catch all for sensors, comms, avionics and all the other little electronics that "make it go" so being a bit of power sink is no real problem.
Of course I also feel (since it was first defined in MW) that the whole power issue is a problem of being at least a factor of 10 (at least) overpowered. I mean, a small ship with a complement of 4-10 people needing the same power as a modern large town or small city!? I've thought (since it was first defined in MW) about keeping everything the same size, cost, efficiency and EP, just redefining EP as 1/10th the MW it is listed as. I've not done the math or much research, it was just a gut level handwave. Anybody know offhand the total power requirement for a large submarine?
Looking through my old HG book I find some half erased margin notes about Bridge displacement not being 20dT minimum, just a flat 2% of hull displacement. Obviously an old house rule we tried and then dropped for some reason. Sorry I can't recall any of the reasons for trying it or changing our minds, though some obvious ones should be, well, obvious
Of course I also feel (since it was first defined in MW) that the whole power issue is a problem of being at least a factor of 10 (at least) overpowered. I mean, a small ship with a complement of 4-10 people needing the same power as a modern large town or small city!? I've thought (since it was first defined in MW) about keeping everything the same size, cost, efficiency and EP, just redefining EP as 1/10th the MW it is listed as. I've not done the math or much research, it was just a gut level handwave. Anybody know offhand the total power requirement for a large submarine?
Looking through my old HG book I find some half erased margin notes about Bridge displacement not being 20dT minimum, just a flat 2% of hull displacement. Obviously an old house rule we tried and then dropped for some reason. Sorry I can't recall any of the reasons for trying it or changing our minds, though some obvious ones should be, well, obvious
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
You forgot to mention the thousands of colored flip switches need to run the SF computers.Originally posted by DaveChase:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by CarlP:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Captain Jonah:
Heh heh. Yeah, I always loved comparing real-world computer rooms with the SF computer rooms. Real world--lots of noise from the tape drives and air conditioning and stuff, and one or two blinking lights on each box. SF computer room, total silence, and blinking lights all over the place.Some of the server rooms I have worked in need a serious aircon system to keep them cool but all together they wouldn't draw a fraction of 2000 MW.
Never mind venting powerplant heat, that computer will cook the ship on its own
carl </font>
Dave </font>[/QUOTE]Not to mention the inevitable cliche brown out of the computer remedied by emergency repair procedure number one applied liberally to the panel
All right, I've heard enough. I smell Yet Another Cobbled Together Ship Design System brewing. Can you? I've seen some useful charts posted lately from folks around here... and The Oz' most recent contributions just can't be left behind. This must be compiled! It just has to!
We've got power plant charts converted from MT, including fission power. We've got sanity rules for fuel consumption. Heck, that's nearly critical mass (no pun intended).
The hard part, to me, is weapons.
We've got power plant charts converted from MT, including fission power. We've got sanity rules for fuel consumption. Heck, that's nearly critical mass (no pun intended).
The hard part, to me, is weapons.
Ah, did I miss the URL to your homebrew system?
My last attempt (which badly needs an overhaul) is at
http://home.comcast.net/~downport/rules/Book2QSDS_current.html
My last attempt (which badly needs an overhaul) is at
http://home.comcast.net/~downport/rules/Book2QSDS_current.html
well, most everything in CT I can accept, except th computer rules, and I've realized they were broke in 1978.
I figure the ships computer is included in the bridge. To keep the design rules consistant the size power and cost of the "computer" is used for the sensor suite. After all, using the HG rules the computer doesn't do much except targeting.
-------------------------------------------------From Msy 26, 20003-------------------------------
...The only real difference in game terms is on my deckplans where I make sure my sensors (that were "computer") have access to the outer hull.
My "Ships Computer" is a processing unit that serves as a router for the dedicated processors, a server for mass storage, but mostly as a crew interface. It is a minor part (0.5 dton? 0.01 Dton? I won't say so I won't be wrong) of the bridge percentage. I wrote the following as gudelines for the interface. They could be extended to robots, come to think of it.
computers at the appropriate TL, no extra cost. They were first introduced on dedicated research machines, +1 TL on ship and office computers, +2 TL on personal computers, +3 TL on handheld computers. (ie, at TL 13 your Ships computer may be an AI, and your pocket PDA would have an Artificial Personality.
Punchcards & teletype (TL5)
Keyboard & CRT (TL6)
Verbal Interface (TL7) Just uses verbal commands and spoken responses instead of the keyboard. Think classic Star Trek. I used maritime protocals to prevent mistakes from misinterpreted orders (if it works shouting orders in a gale, it should work for a dumb machine on a quiet bridge.)
For example, "Shut down engines"
Shut down power plant, aye
"Belay that! Secure the MANEUVER drive."
Belay shut down power plant, Secure maneuver drive, aye.
<<pause>>
Maneuver drive is secured
Artificial Personality (TL9) Adds social amenities, but may not always be appropriate (like the ship in Hitch Hikers Guide). Seldom used for crew functions, but often for PDA.
Good morning, Ms Vanaprul, this is the morning of your seventh day on "The Duchess of Regina", and thank you for choosing Tukhera lines, the safest way to travel in the Spinward Marches. Breakfast is now being served in the lounge, or a continental breakfast can be sent to your room. The Captain asked me to tell you that we did not come out of jump as expected last night, and that may cause some inconvenience. Have a GREAT day.
Artificial Intelligence (TL12) The computer is aware of it's environment and can draw conclusions and make appropriate choices, but, like an idiot savant, only in some areas. Like Hal 9000,
We have a problem in engineering, Captain. I know we have been using it heavily, but following the guidelines programmed at the last overhaul, I am shutting down the maneuver drive for repairs.
With expert systems (and sometimes a manipulator or robot) installed it can act as a crewman in an emergency at a skill level 1/2 the expert program.
Self Aware (TL14) We are talking about a full silicon-germanium NPC here. Its feelings can be hurt (although it also has professionalism) and with social skills even.
When I was fixing the coolant leak after the Pirates chased us, I saw some suspicious tool marks on the fittings. Captain, I know the manager of Smithson's Shiprights is a friend of yours, but the pirates may have bribed one of his techs. I suggest we get our repairs done in a different yard this time.
A self aware computer can take full advantage of Expert systems, and may or may not pass port clearance regulations as a crewman.
At TL16 we can have fully automated ships.
You can also buy "expert systems" that will assist a player with specialist knowledge and proceedures.
If the PC has no expertise in that field but a basic understanding of the tools and equipment (i.e. a Engineer trying to Navigate, etc), he can perform as if he had a skill of 1/2 the program level. If the character has at least one level of the appropriate skill he can use his skill or the programs skill, whichever is higher.
TL applies to engineering programs: -1 for ecery 2 TL higher, -1 for every 3 TL lower. I.e., a +2 TL10 program is +1 with a TL12 or TL13 drive, no help with a TL14+. A +2 TL14 pogram is only +1 with an old TL8-11 drive
Price varied. Ship skills were about a 100KCr/level.
I figure the ships computer is included in the bridge. To keep the design rules consistant the size power and cost of the "computer" is used for the sensor suite. After all, using the HG rules the computer doesn't do much except targeting.
-------------------------------------------------From Msy 26, 20003-------------------------------
...The only real difference in game terms is on my deckplans where I make sure my sensors (that were "computer") have access to the outer hull.
My "Ships Computer" is a processing unit that serves as a router for the dedicated processors, a server for mass storage, but mostly as a crew interface. It is a minor part (0.5 dton? 0.01 Dton? I won't say so I won't be wrong) of the bridge percentage. I wrote the following as gudelines for the interface. They could be extended to robots, come to think of it.
computers at the appropriate TL, no extra cost. They were first introduced on dedicated research machines, +1 TL on ship and office computers, +2 TL on personal computers, +3 TL on handheld computers. (ie, at TL 13 your Ships computer may be an AI, and your pocket PDA would have an Artificial Personality.
Punchcards & teletype (TL5)
Keyboard & CRT (TL6)
Verbal Interface (TL7) Just uses verbal commands and spoken responses instead of the keyboard. Think classic Star Trek. I used maritime protocals to prevent mistakes from misinterpreted orders (if it works shouting orders in a gale, it should work for a dumb machine on a quiet bridge.)
For example, "Shut down engines"
Shut down power plant, aye
"Belay that! Secure the MANEUVER drive."
Belay shut down power plant, Secure maneuver drive, aye.
<<pause>>
Maneuver drive is secured
Artificial Personality (TL9) Adds social amenities, but may not always be appropriate (like the ship in Hitch Hikers Guide). Seldom used for crew functions, but often for PDA.
Good morning, Ms Vanaprul, this is the morning of your seventh day on "The Duchess of Regina", and thank you for choosing Tukhera lines, the safest way to travel in the Spinward Marches. Breakfast is now being served in the lounge, or a continental breakfast can be sent to your room. The Captain asked me to tell you that we did not come out of jump as expected last night, and that may cause some inconvenience. Have a GREAT day.
Artificial Intelligence (TL12) The computer is aware of it's environment and can draw conclusions and make appropriate choices, but, like an idiot savant, only in some areas. Like Hal 9000,
We have a problem in engineering, Captain. I know we have been using it heavily, but following the guidelines programmed at the last overhaul, I am shutting down the maneuver drive for repairs.
With expert systems (and sometimes a manipulator or robot) installed it can act as a crewman in an emergency at a skill level 1/2 the expert program.
Self Aware (TL14) We are talking about a full silicon-germanium NPC here. Its feelings can be hurt (although it also has professionalism) and with social skills even.
When I was fixing the coolant leak after the Pirates chased us, I saw some suspicious tool marks on the fittings. Captain, I know the manager of Smithson's Shiprights is a friend of yours, but the pirates may have bribed one of his techs. I suggest we get our repairs done in a different yard this time.
A self aware computer can take full advantage of Expert systems, and may or may not pass port clearance regulations as a crewman.
At TL16 we can have fully automated ships.
You can also buy "expert systems" that will assist a player with specialist knowledge and proceedures.
If the PC has no expertise in that field but a basic understanding of the tools and equipment (i.e. a Engineer trying to Navigate, etc), he can perform as if he had a skill of 1/2 the program level. If the character has at least one level of the appropriate skill he can use his skill or the programs skill, whichever is higher.
TL applies to engineering programs: -1 for ecery 2 TL higher, -1 for every 3 TL lower. I.e., a +2 TL10 program is +1 with a TL12 or TL13 drive, no help with a TL14+. A +2 TL14 pogram is only +1 with an old TL8-11 drive
Price varied. Ship skills were about a 100KCr/level.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Weapon house rules for CT?
To maintain the small ship universe I prefer, and yet integrate spinal mounts and bays, this is what I do.
Divide the tonnage, cost and EP requirement from HG by 10 for spinal mounts. For weapon bays just halve their tonnage i.e. 100t bays become 50t and 50t bays become 25t, keep price and EP the same (except for meson bays, Ive always thought their EP requirement too high so I halve that as well).
To maintain the small ship universe I prefer, and yet integrate spinal mounts and bays, this is what I do.
Divide the tonnage, cost and EP requirement from HG by 10 for spinal mounts. For weapon bays just halve their tonnage i.e. 100t bays become 50t and 50t bays become 25t, keep price and EP the same (except for meson bays, Ive always thought their EP requirement too high so I halve that as well).
