Hivers

[Qstor2]

The upshot of all of this is that, now, the Hive Federation issues TL-15 mops to all Hivers outside of the Federation, just in case someone spills some ketchup or coffeejuice. So, where ever I go, what ever I do, if there's a mess, I'm the Hiver with the TL-15 mop to clean it up..........

Hence the Hiver/mop references.

Or if the Hiver was in the Sol Austrailian Studies club he's spill tomato sauce.

(Something this Yank found funny when an Austrialian chap he met called it tomato sauce once )

How many credits for a TL-15 mop and WHAT does it look like?

Mike

 

[atpollard]

How many credits for a TL-15 mop and WHAT does it look like?

Mike

It's not just a TL 15 mop, it is a TL 15 mop manufactured by/for Hivers - and the Hivers are more advanced in electronics that the Imperium. From data in TNE, it may be able clean up the VIRUS as well.

 

[Maladominus]

It's not just a TL 15 mop, it is a TL 15 mop manufactured by/for Hivers - and the Hivers are more advanced in electronics that the Imperium. From data in TNE, it may be able clean up the VIRUS as well.

I'm scared of the possibility that a Tech Level 15 mop could be used as a weapon of mass destruction.

 

[Gruffty]

The Hive Federation's standard issue TL-15 Hiver Mop-O-Matic has many high value features. These inlcude:

A standard, replacable mop head for use with water and detergent (pack of 5 included)
A static charge dust collector (for all those places you Humans forget to dust!)
A 65,000 rpm CoffeeJuice stain remover disc (single use only, dispose of in the industrial waste bin after use)
A floor polishing/buffing head (for those shiney, shiney floors you Humans just love!)
A squeegee (for when the Captain needs those bridge windows to gleam!)
Larval extermination head and container of Larva-Gone Spray (1,000 doses)
An extendable handle (up to 4 metres) with poly-species grip (adapts to the user's manual configuration)
Vargr-Gone air freshener (for after the Vargrs' have left the ship)
Bitrex Anti-Vargr-Chewing spray (saves your mess hall furniture and carpets from being ripped up by them Vargr pups!)

The handle is made from a high strength Titanium-Vanadium-Rhodium-Unobtanium alloy, available as matt steel or chromed. Mop heads come in a variety of colours and designs:

Imperial Marine Yo'-Lazy-Scumbag-Imperial-Navy-Hoiky-Nosebagging-Rear-Echelon-MF Maroon
Solomani Ooh-We're-Like-The-Greatest-Race-Like-Ever-You-Know? Green
Hiver Mop-Mop-Mop-Hiver-Mop-Hiver-Yeah-We-Killed-Strephon-So-What?-You-Guys-Were-Going-To-Do-It-Anyway Purple
Vegan Its-All-Fuzzy-I-Can't-Quite-See-It-Properly-Can-You-Turn-The-Lights-Down-A-Bit-Please? Pale Red
Ithklur combat K'kree:-Fast-Food:-Easy-To-Kill,-Easy-To-Eat! F*'Tahk.

Can also be used as an Anti-Stuck-Up-Their-Own-Tails-Aslan Eye-Poker-Outer.

Integral TL-15 100 shot X-Ray laser system included at no extra costs (range finder and sights not included).

Available from your nearest Six Eyes Trading Nest outlet for just Cr 9,000. 10% discount available on bulk orders, excludes Trader Jim (cos his cheques bounce like a Mobile Infantryman on speed).

 

[Kawaresksenjajok]

Yes and no.

Humans have binocular vision and hands designed to manipulate objects in front of them. As a consequence, most human created objects have a distinctive “front” – a side to be interfaced with that is more important than the other five ‘sides’. Look at a monitor, keyboard, telephone, or a door. They all have a front that is more important. The objects do not have fronts just because people have fronts, but human physiology (physical form) and psychology (how we perceive the world) encourage humans to construct objects with a front. Our objects reflect our world view. Humans are accustomed to LOOKING where they are going, so we design craft to allow us a good view of what is ahead of us. This results in the forward bridge common on human spacecraft and naturally creates a human perception of a “head”, a “body” and a “tail” in rockets, missiles, aircraft, and spacecraft.

Hivers are not like people. Their evolution has created Hivers with 360 degree vision, so Hivers will think in terms of all directions at once. Hiver made objects should reflect this. Hiver physiology (physical form) protects the Hiver by placing the brain at the center of mass protected with a skull. This protected brain is in then further protected by vital organs which are covered by a second shell. This second shell is covered by protective muscles and “expendable” soft tissue. Since Hivers are known to be primarily a defensive species which deplores hand-to-hand combat, it seems reasonable that they would think in terms of a layered defense – exactly how evolution had programmed their survival instincts. Just as humans instinctively cover their heads to protect themselves, so Hivers should think in terms of sacrificing a tentacle to preserve internal organs and sacrificing internal organs to protect the brain. When it came time for Hivers to venture into space, they should naturally seek protection and would probably use their own natural defenses (which they know a great deal about) as their model for designing a ship. That is why Hiver ships should reflect Hiver bodies.

Aslans, by contrast tend towards aggression and weaponry, so Aslan ships should accentuate offensive capabilities that harmonize with Aslan physiology (physical form) and psychology (how they perceive the world). “The best Defense is a good Offense”.

Frankly, from what I always assumed about Hivers and from your own description, I can't see any reason why Hiver ships wouldn't look any different than Human ships. Hivers have heads, bodies and 'tails'. If Hivers were true hexalateral creatures, I might be more convinced, but Hivers aren't.
Now how Hivers design ship controls, corridors, furniture and all that stuff on the inside is gonna be weird for humans, no doubt.
Even IF Hivers were hexalateral, with eyes on all sides of their bodies instead of clustered onto a 'head' (much like us humans), I would argue they would still design spaceships much like we humans purely from a pragmatic and economic standpoint. Why build a starship that can go just as fast in 6, 8 or 20 different directions when it can go REALLY fast in 1?

 

[Icosahedron]

Since it's been resurrected...

And you wouldn't build a computer with 6 faces because the operator can only be in one place at a time - the front is where the operator is standing.

 

[atpollard]

Since it's been resurrected...

And you wouldn't build a computer with 6 faces because the operator can only be in one place at a time - the front is where the operator is standing.

As a 21st century human being, I can buy a 'cell phone' that will allow access to the internet, take still photos, record video, play music and allow verbal communications. The fact that people (teenagers not withstanding) typically do only one thing at a time means that my wonder phone does not need to be able to perform more than one function at any particular moment.

This is not true of Hivers. A hiver could access data, talk, record video and listen to music at the same time (or at least Ben can). A Hiver wonder phone would reflect this needed versatility. That would require it to be made different than the Human wonder phone.

 

[Gruffty]

This is not true of Hivers. A hiver could access data, talk, record video and listen to music at the same time (or at least Ben can). A Hiver wonder phone would reflect this needed versatility. That would require it to be made different than the Human wonder phone.

Except for the fact that *Hivers can't talk* and use limbs, gestures and graphics to communicate with other Hivers. And they use translation computers to talk with non-Hivers.

...and yes, they *do* sound like the voice from Adobe Reader 8 "read out loud" function....

 

[Kawaresksenjajok]

It's an interesting idea that Hivers are some sort of polyfunctional ploymaths, but I don't see any reason to think that. Like Gruffty points out, Hivers lack of voice capacity requires them to use their limbs to talk, the same ones they would be using for all the other functions described. Besides, what are we saying the Hiver mind is like? Are they like the Kelvans from Star Trek who can do 50 things at one time with their myriad of tentacles, which we are led to think so because of their amazingly complex minds. But if we attribute this excellency upon the Hivers, why aren't they way ahead of the 'game' compared to the other major races? Why don't we see them zipping around with Jump-10 drives or whatnot? Unless maybe they do, and they're just playing low-ball with the other races so as not to invite fear and aggression, but then that idea doesn't make sense either once you think about it.

In the end, I don't see Hivers being so super-functional. Given their limitations, they're doing good just be on par with humans really.

 

[Gruffty]

Given their limitations, they're doing good just be on par with humans really.

...you do realise, don't you, that we're far superior to any other race in Charted Space?

 

[Gruffty]

OK, so this is how I see Hivers operating:

They have 6 limbs that they can use independently or in any combination;
They have 6 eyes that they prefer to use as three steroescopic pairs, but can use as a 360 deg spread for all-round vision if required and they're perfectly capable of processing the visual information received when operating in "360 mode";
They can multi-task or focus on one individual task at a time;
The need for multi-tasking (and thus the assignment of limbs and eyes to each task) is situationally based (i.e. they only use the eyes and limbs that are necessary to complete the task(s) at hand);
I think it'is possible for a Hiver to "talk" to another Hiver and carry out one other task at the same time, although my feeling is that the Hiver would have to be sitting down to do this (mainly because I don't know exactly how many limbs are involved in Hiver "speech"; if it involves many limbs, the Hiver might fall over mid-conversation! lol).

With regards to why Hivers and Jump-10 ships etc: first there's the OTU "Jump-6 limit" theory; second: my feeling is that they wouldn't give the game away even if they *did* have J-10 ships (gives 'em an edge in an emergency). I would also suggest that the Hivers, whilst being touted as "more intelligent than other species", are, in fact, simply "differently intelligenced" i.e. they are no more or less inteligent that other races, it's just that their intelligence manifests itself in a different, non-human, form.

 

[Staberinde]

Look at the dates...

Solomani first contact with Hivers.

Gene War.

Keep looking at them.

IMTU the Hivers manipulated the Solomani into creating supermen before society was ready for them. That led to the Gene War. Which led to the collapse of the Second Imperium. Which led to the Solomani Movement.

One manipulation that brought down an empire and poisoned Solomani culture so much, it would never get anywhere near a position where it could threaten the Hive Federation.

Now. What if someone found out the truth?

 

[Murph]

OK, so Hivers did the manipulation for the Gene Wars, how do you make that leap? With their Anti-Alien views, I don't see the Solomani really being succeptable to Hiver manipulation. The Imperium is a more easily penetrated target, IMO.

 

[Strummist]

OK, so Hivers did the manipulation for the Gene Wars, how do you make that leap? With their Anti-Alien views, I don't see the Solomani really being succeptable to Hiver manipulation. The Imperium is a more easily penetrated target, IMO.

Having hostile relations with another group hasn't prevented some very effective manipulations in the real world - history is full of examples. The ones that immediately spring to mind are from WW2, especially the lead up to D-Day, and the concealment of the breaking of Enigma. The world of espionage is full of false flag operations and the use of proxies.

If I were a Hiver, I'd ... no scratch that, there's no guessing what a Hiver would do.. If I were a Hiver with a human brain, I'd just let the Solomani get their hands on technology and resources that 'nudged' them in the right direction, and perhaps faked data that suggested alternative lines of research were infeasible.

There are plenty of ways of doing that - I'd probably manipulate a third-party group to do the heavy lifting.

 

[rancke]

Look at the dates...

Solomani first contact with Hivers.

Gene War.

Keep looking at them.

Where do I look? The last time I discussed the Gene Wars with someone, we couldn't find enough solid evidence to nail down any dates, but we did arrive at the conclusion that they probably took place after the formation of the Solomani Confederation. If evidence exists that provides actual dates, I'd be thrilled to learn about it.


Hans

 

[mike wightman]

Yup, according to rats and cats the gene war takes place in the confederation era, which is
a long time after the fall of the second Imperium and the long night.