O
Omnivore
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Oops, seems I've strayed into causality in regards to jump space giving rise to a particularly Traveller form of Grandfather Paradox :devil: :rofl:
Higher TL jump
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far-trader
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Not even rising to fanon - merely speculation; a plausible way to explain the lack of "outside" influences.
The primary reason people use the "Grandfather created Jumpspace" is to explain the 2D J-space with an otherwise 3D setting.
Continuing the speculation...
If one does that, tho', whatever rate at which it propagates, that's the fastest anyone can travel by Jump. At least until a second generator is established at the edge. But that might generate a rift in J-space in-between the generators.
And, to inflate to known space size, it probably spreads at superluminal speeds, at least for some portion of it.
We'll have to wait and see Don's timeline to know how fast it would have to have spread... it would have to have reached earth between roughly 310KYA (Ancients get to Earth) and Yaskodray's arrival on the scene.
Which gives 3 points; apply a curve fitting algorithm, and we know the expansion rate.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Because it answers questions and makes sense for the setting.
In MT there is a sidebar that mentions the first star farers. These were races far older than the Ancients who travelled the stars long before grandfather "discovered" jump drive.
None of them invented jump travel but several achieved star travel by other means.
I long ago posted that IMTU grandfather didn't discover jump space - rather he invented a device which allowed machines easier access to the jump space dimensions - he detonated a jump space membrane device, for want of a better term, that propagated at the speed of light and allowed mechanical jump drives to access jump dimensions to allow for FTL travel.
This jump bubble has been expanding ever since.
That is until the jump bubble came to the attention of "others" deep in our galaxy who objected to this - so they detonated a counter device which is the origin of the Empress Wave in MTU.
When Dave Nilsen posted a long while ago and mentioned that the Empress Wave was intended to allow interaction with meta-conscious entities existing in the jump dimensions I immediately adopted this too.
In MT there is a sidebar that mentions the first star farers. These were races far older than the Ancients who travelled the stars long before grandfather "discovered" jump drive.
None of them invented jump travel but several achieved star travel by other means.
I long ago posted that IMTU grandfather didn't discover jump space - rather he invented a device which allowed machines easier access to the jump space dimensions - he detonated a jump space membrane device, for want of a better term, that propagated at the speed of light and allowed mechanical jump drives to access jump dimensions to allow for FTL travel.
This jump bubble has been expanding ever since.
That is until the jump bubble came to the attention of "others" deep in our galaxy who objected to this - so they detonated a counter device which is the origin of the Empress Wave in MTU.
When Dave Nilsen posted a long while ago and mentioned that the Empress Wave was intended to allow interaction with meta-conscious entities existing in the jump dimensions I immediately adopted this too.
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Three points? With Terra and the Core as the first two? What's the third point? We don't know from where Grandfather "launched" jumpspace - Eskayloyt and Droynia have never been found.
And also, note the existence of two Rim Routes (the Solomani one (Project Perseus or something) and Turokan's Rim Route).
According to Marc Miller in a message on the Traveller Mailing List many years ago, Eskaloyt used to be in the Shionthy system until it was pinched off in a pocket universe of its own.
Hans
Hmm... I remember reading that "Eskayloyt" was destroyed, so the Droyne had to go to "Droynia".
steventirey1985
SOC-12
Don't quote me on this; I'd have to do some serious digging to be sure... but I think I may have these sectors for GAL24 somewhere. If I do manage to dig them up, I'll let the community know...
Hmm... I'll probably have to "overwrite" some of the sectors for the Orion OB1 project, but it is good if copies of the sectors still exist, with the website being offline and their creator deceased.
Go ahead and quote me; I have them, and the Core Route as well, in GAL24 SAR format. Both routes, plus Charted Space, weigh in at a svelte - almost anorexic - 8MB in a ZIP file. That's the total, not each 'module'.
Contact me by email - NOT PM - if you want 'em, so we can work out logistics.
Notes:
I do not believe that they can all be imported into the same GAL galaxy, however.
FTR, GAL works just wonderfully in DOSBox. Which is available for Windows, Linux, and (Intel) Mac, and probably for other platforms as well (I have an experimental implementation of it for Android, for example).
The Core Route's already publicly available - through TravellerMap.
What special program do you need to open GAL files?
Jim Vassilakos's GALACTIC, linked from the Traveller Software for DOS And Windows page at Freelance Traveller. Requires MS-DOS compatibility, e.g., DOSBox on any platform, or Windows XP Mode on Windows 7 (Professional or higher only).
This still doesn't give us the rate of expansion to spinward (who's says it's even all round)?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I wonder if the first contact between Impies and Solies could be part of the expansion equation? And the reason the mighty Imperium hadn't gotten to Earth a lot sooner was jump drives not working that far? Maybe the IISS early missions consisted largely of mapping where jump would work? And updating the charts as new systems came into range? The Solies got lucky and discovered jump just as it was reaching the area of Sol?
Perhaps even the originally slow expansion of the Imperium was due to the expansion effect being a gradual thing? Jump 1 space accessible earliest and slowly ramping up in range such that now most of charted space is permeated by J6 underspace. And the real hold back on predictable J7 and higher is waiting for jumpspace to develop?
Just some random thoughts.
Perhaps even the originally slow expansion of the Imperium was due to the expansion effect being a gradual thing? Jump 1 space accessible earliest and slowly ramping up in range such that now most of charted space is permeated by J6 underspace. And the real hold back on predictable J7 and higher is waiting for jumpspace to develop?
Just some random thoughts.
if it isn't symmetrical, then it's not a normal field propagation...
We have two data points hard:
Eskaloyt (Shionthy) to Terra
Eskaloyt to Core
A few more make for compelling matches to the Terra point:
Eskaloyt to Zhdantl
Eskaloyt to Lair
we also note that Aslan, Hiver and K'Kree get added later... so, they probably (but far from definitely) seem outside the initial sphere.
christopher.boote
SOC-12
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