gurps aliens

[rancke]

Originally posted by Solo:
I think it has to be remembered (as MJD pointed out) that GURPS:Traveller occurs in a variant universe/timeline. It uses Classic/MT/T4/ as its start point.

Exactly mine and Andrew's point. The GTU uses the OTU as a starting point. Which means that anything set in the GTU prior to 1116 is also supposed to be a part of the OTU. To ignore that in the production of Milieu 1000 material is to reduce the internal consistency of both settings.

Hans

 

[MJD]

True, unless those facts contradict something that we want to do with our part of the setting.

Our development of the traveller universe cannot be dictated by material backdated out of an alternate/variant universe.

Where possible, we'll try to remain compliant, but at the end of the day two companies cannot be expected to follow one another around in circles.

 

[tenntrav]

True, unless those facts contradict something that we want to do with our part of the setting.

Our development of the traveller universe cannot be dictated by material backdated out of an alternate/variant universe.

Where possible, we'll try to remain compliant, but at the end of the day two companies cannot be expected to follow one another around in circles.

--------------------
Traveller Line Editor, Quiklink Interactive

...Here, here..."and other curmudgeon mumbles from the backbench.

I have GT source books (not BTC) and have playtested for SJG previously. It sounds as though the main thrust of upcoming publications will be in the Marches, which is fine by me.

I'm much more interested in functional, interesting and original when I look to products outside the basic rulebook. Maintaining canon is important from a game mechanics standpoint, but much less so from a "regional color" standpoint. Unless the regional color has non-regional effects, then the authors become slaves of canon...however or whomever that is defined by.

I'll be GMing a T20 game in year 53 focusing coreward (toward Solomani rim) of Core sector. I'm taking T4 source material and flying with it. I chose coreward in this time period specifically because little appears to have been published about it. I'm also using Ley sector references that I pick up from COTI (thank you hunter for the way cool cluster descriptions) to add color and catalyze the creative GM juices. If you put the source book or the aliens in the marches, fine. I will just transport them to a system my stalwart adventurers will be travelling to soon. I just want them to be neetoh-peachy-keen aliens (I wish someone would do a Kif write up...I know they are non-canon, but Cherryh makes them sooo tasty.)

I preused BTC back when it first came out, and my juices said I didn't need it. However, with the Muoray references made in this discussion, I'll give it another taste.

 

[JFZeigler]

Originally posted by tenntrav:
I have GT source books (not BTC) and have playtested for SJG previously. It sounds as though the main thrust of upcoming publications will be in the Marches, which is fine by me.

Not responding to most of the recent discussion (not much to say), but I can attest that this particular guess isn't correct.

I don't think I'll surprise anyone by saying that the main area of interest for us, through the next couple of years, will be the Solomani Rim. This isn't to say that we're going to ignore the Marches, of course.

 

[AndreaV]

Originally posted by JFZeigler:
Not responding to most of the recent discussion (not much to say), but I can attest that this particular guess isn't correct.

I don't think I'll surprise anyone by saying that the main area of interest for us, through the next couple of years, will be the Solomani Rim. This isn't to say that we're going to ignore the Marches, of course.

Can one ask if the old concept of "sectorbooks" that used to be on the SJG wish list is alive or dead?

If GT is going to stay confined roughly within the Domains of Deneb and Sol plus the Solomani Confederation (he says hoping that Jon's Aldaberan sectorbook is still live), and QLI stays within the Domain of Gateway; then the potential for problems is much less. Certainly much less than the "GT is variant, so we don't need to worry" I read (or perhaps misread) from Martin's original post.

 

[JFZeigler]

Originally posted by Andrewmv:
Can one ask if the old concept of "sectorbooks" that used to be on the SJG wish list is alive or dead?

If GT is going to stay confined roughly within the Domains of Deneb and Sol plus the Solomani Confederation (he says hoping that Jon's Aldaberan sectorbook is still live), and QLI stays within the Domain of Gateway; then the potential for problems is much less. Certainly much less than the "GT is variant, so we don't need to worry" I read (or perhaps misread) from Martin's original post.

We're still going to do sector books, yes. Aldeberan is still in the making, although it will probably be the one book that gets delayed significantly by the Interstellar Wars project.

I can't say that we're going to stay entirely within the Domains of Deneb and Sol. I want to publish at least one sector book closer to the Imperial core, maybe Core or Vland if I get a good proposal for either. Still, we have absolutely no plan to pave Charted Space, and no need to go anywhere near QuikLink's conceptual territory. It's a big Imperium.

 

[AndreaV]

This should probably be moved to soapbox (I would if I knew how)

Originally posted by rancke:
Originally posted by T. Foster:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />But to declare that the ~93% of Traveller fans who don't use GT should change one of the fundamental ways the OTU has worked for 25 years just because Jim MacLean has a degree is economics is (IMO) arrogant in the extreme.

Jim McLean doesn't really enter into it at all. I was of the opinion that prices per jump was utterly silly (and I mean willing-suspension-of-disbelief-shattering silly) long before GT was a even a gleam in Steve Jackson's eye. It was gratifying and validating that Jim turned out to agree with me (on this particular issue but if he had stuck to that rule, I would be arguing that both QuickLink and SJG ought to change it to something sensible.</font>[/QUOTE]Okay, the per jump model of trade has been a particular bugbear of not only Hans, Jim McLean, and myself; but many many Traveller players for a very long time. In my experience people notice this oddity long before any other, since it tends to impact on them almost immediately ("hey, just why does it cost twice as much to go the same distance at half the speed"). Sure the per jump model is simple and fast in play, but theres no reason why a per parsec model can't be equally simple and fast.

Yes, changing it will have some effect on established canon, but leaving it will have an even bigger effect since the only way it can actually exist if some massively powerful Imperium wide body is rigidly enforcing it (we're talking government with full wartime emergency powers levels of regulation here). Leave it and you need an Imperial government not only with the will to impose such a scheme, but also to micromanage trade to close all the glaring loopholes.

Yes, there are a lot of individual "fixes" for this problem (which, BTW is indicitive of how broken it is). But, IMHO, that doesn't change the fact that its broken. We have sidebars with optional and alternative rules giving "more realistic" options for shipbuilding, so is it really that extreme to expect a sidebar to give options and alternative for a more realistic trade model?

 

[jzeitlin]

Lots of heat on this topic, but no real conclusions, as far as I can see.

Which simply points out that ultimately, aliens are a IMTU issue.

Therefore, my take is as follows:

I don't give a damn how many different aliens you have in your universe; what I expect is that any given alien will be (a) consistent with the science of the universe, and (b) internally self-consistent, with explainable origins in game-universe terms. Setting aside the question of the deus-ex-machina of the Ancients, the Traveller major races generally meet those tests.

Most of the BTC aliens can't be decided one way or the other on the tests; there isn't enough information. However, just looking at the portrayals suggests to me that the Ebokin, Dandies, Tashaki, and Viji would outright fail. In GTAR1, I feel that the Sheol would fail; in GTAR2, both the Devi and the Inyx are failures; in GTAR3, both the Inheritors and the Lithkind fail; in GTAR4, the Tezcat and Valkyrie fail. Many of the other races are 'insufficient information'. Note that some of the failures lose because of psychological issues that seem strongly countersurvival.

Taking a liberty, and looking at GURPS ALIENS (i.e., not GURPS TRAVELLER ALIEN RACES x), about the only ones that I can see being portable into Traveller reasonably are those that, unfortunately, would have best been left as humans with variant cultures, rather than true Aliens. Examples that come to mind are the Irari, the An Phar, and the Kronin, but there are others.

In short: Give aliens a reason to have evolved as they did, including intelligence. Also ensure that they have a way to "control" their environment; intelligence and progress will almost certainly involve a desire to do so, and an ability - within limits - to do so as well. Social organization should also be a natural development, but there's quite a bit more leeway there - provided that you don't saddle a race with countersurvival psychoses.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Jeff Zeitlin:
Most of the BTC aliens can't be decided one way or the other on the tests; there isn't enough information. However, just looking at the portrayals suggests to me that the Ebokin, Dandies, Tashaki, and Viji would outright fail.

Just to be fair, it should be noted that the Ebokin, Dandies and Tashaki are pure CT aliens that were carried forward, unchanged, in GT.

 

[Strephon XVII]

I agree fully with the poster on page 1, there is far to much emphasis on minutae, and not enough focus on ideas and content. The original Gurps Aliens book had some good ideas... (I ran a Kaa character once that was loads of fun.) and was a good example of ideas for aliens presented short and sweet, without needing to bog it down with superfluous fluff.

 

[plop101]

Wow! Look at this battlefield. The carnage must have been awesome.

I guess before I enter the fray, I'd like to know exactly what races in BTC where carried over from CT/MT, and what races in BTC are new. I've waded through the 8 pages of material, and I got different answers from different posters.

Now, to stuff I know about.

Dandies: I'm not high on the Dandies, but IF you keep Junidy at that absurdly high population level your sort off stuck with having to use them. Otherwise Junidy becomes a super major player in the Marches. Trust me on this; I once sat down and tried to figure forces for the Junidy navy. Even using a budget of Cr50 per person, you wind up having a MASSIVE fleet.

Saurus: IMTU, I've always viewed this world as being populated by the Bwaps. The Saurians described in BTC I just don't use. If I want Saurian-like types, I'll go to the originals:
The Gorn.

As for cantina's, you could stick with just the CT major and minor aliens and still come up with a respectable cantina scene. If one wants to avoid the Cantina scene, one almost has to throw out the minor aliens. And I'm just not willing to part with my Bwaps and Virushi.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by plop101:
I guess before I enter the fray, I'd like to know exactly what races in BTC where carried over from CT/MT, and what races in BTC are new. I've waded through the 8 pages of material, and I got different answers from different posters.

OK, looking at the list of races in BtC pp30-35, these are the ones I know where in CT.
- Chirpers (Adv 2)
- Dolphins (JTAS)
- Ebokin (TTA)
- Llellewyoly/Dandies (TTA)
- Shriekers (Adv 10)

I believe the next two are also CT (or MT), but I can't pull up a reference.
- Tashaki
- Saurans

Do note that CT only had Dolphins on Nexie; those on Mire were a GT addition.

I am pretty sure the other seven are GT creations.

Also, two not in the Minor Races list, but also from CT are:
- Jonkeereen (I don't know if they are mentioned)
- Nexies (these are on Nexine)

And, of course, all of the "Major States" listed on pp24-29 are pure CT. The only major changes made in GT is that some of the changes shown in TNE with the Darrians and Sword Worlds has been "accelerated" by 50 or so years.

[Edited to move the Tashaki with the Saurans.]

 

[etherflyer]

Originally posted by neil:
What do people think about the new races that have been developed for Gurps mainly by Dave Pulver, but also by my self and MJD IN BEHIND THE CLAW? Do people use them in their own campains and should they appear i T5?

I've found a lot of Pulver's races (AR4) had major biological problems -- although we managed to fix most of them in playtest. Haven't used any, mostly because I haven't run a campaign in their native areas.

As to BtC, I haven't used any either, because I found them very bland. The only ones I can remember were reptilian, but not interesting enough when compared to, say, the Hkar (sp?).

On a side note, I basically ignore BtC unless I'm writing for publication (when I have no choice). The format, a paragraph on each world, is too little information to be useful, but enough to be constraining. I was also disappointed in how some canon material, such as Craw, was ignored/overwritten.

 

[etherflyer]

Originally posted by MJD:
The Dandies aren't ours, of course. Some bloke called Miller invented them (chuckles).

As an aside, an old JTAS article by Bill Keith talks about adding aliens to a world in addition to humans listed in the UWP or to explain an anomalous population.

I kinda like that philosophy

Which is what they did in Craw, and was changed by BtC. I'm curious as to why that happened...

 

[Vargas]

Could somebody please cite a CT reference to the Tashaki? It could be my CRS kicking in but I don't recall them in the LBBs. Thx

 

[jzeitlin]

Originally posted by daryen:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jeff Zeitlin:
Most of the BTC aliens can't be decided one way or the other on the tests; there isn't enough information. However, just looking at the portrayals suggests to me that the Ebokin, Dandies, Tashaki, and Viji would outright fail.

Just to be fair, it should be noted that the Ebokin, Dandies and Tashaki are pure CT aliens that were carried forward, unchanged, in GT.</font>[/QUOTE]Point taken, but it doesn't change my view on the matter - to an extent, it only reinforces it, as looking back, it's fairly clear that we weren't as sophisticated "back then", and aliens that we could get away with - the Dandies, for example - simply don't cut it for more sophisticated players with criteria like mine. Sure, you can suspend disbelief, but if you have to do it too often, you go from Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future to High-Tech Space Fantasy in an Alternate State of Mind. Not inherently a bad thing, but not my style.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Vargas:
Could somebody please cite a CT reference to the Tashaki? It could be my CRS kicking in but I don't recall them in the LBBs. Thx

I will have to move them down with the Saurans in my list in the "I am pretty sure, but can't pull a reference" list.

Regardless, they are pretty inevitable when you have to try and explain a low tech (5) hi pop (9) world with an insidious atmosphere (C). A native alien population is pretty much the only solution.