For your TL9+ Non-Agricultral worlds

[Golan2072]

Cool Israeli foundation (en.futuremeat.org) invests in developing vat-grown cultured meat... Once I'll have a little more money I'll donate to them for sure. Science and progress! This is how meat would be grown on many Traveller worlds, especially these with the Na trade-code.

 

[rancke]

Cool Israeli foundation invests in developing vat-grown cultured meat... Once I'll have a little more money I'll donate to them for sure. Science and progress! This is how meat would be grown on many Traveller worlds, especially these with the Na trade-code.

Even though carniculture and hydroponics produces agricultural goods just the same as more traditional methods. And cheaper. And in greater abundance for the same acreage.


Hans

 

[Timerover51]

The following quote is from H. Beam Piper's book, Four-Day Planet.

I went on telling him about our hydroponic farms, and the carniculture plant where any kind of animal tissue we wanted was grown—Terran pork and beef and poultry, Freyan zhoumy meat, Zarathustran veldtbeest.... He knew, already, that none of the native life-forms, animal or vegetable, were edible by Terrans.

"You can get all the paté de foie gras you want here," I said. "We have a chunk of goose liver about fifty feet in diameter growing in one of our vats."

In other stories, Piper uses carniculture meat, with the caveat that is does not taste as good as genuine live-grown meat, but is acceptable as a substitute.

 

[BlackBat242]

And is especially acceptable for those who are vegetarian on religious grounds (so as to not bring harm to a thinking being), not dietary grounds.

 

[Lycanorukke]

In other stories, Piper uses carniculture meat, with the caveat that is does not taste as good as genuine live-grown meat, but is acceptable as a substitute.

Which is pretty much what taste tests from real experiments with vat grown meat report, with results ranging from 'sort of tastes like the real thing' to 'hand me the sick bag'.

A slab of meat isn't just muscle, but a complex mix of proteins, fats, collagens, ligaments and blood, whereas the initial trials of vat meat resemble a pale yellow goo that looks (and tastes) similar to 'cold snot on a plate'. It has to be artificially coloured and shaped to even begin pretending to be real.

After a few months of eating it, any trader landing with a hold of 'the real stuff' would be mobbed by a populace who would cheerfully offer their firstborn for just a 'wafer thin slice of meat'. And of course if there is a local Aslan or Vargr population, then the 'bidding war' could turn into a blood sport.

Who needs a hold full of radioactives for fun and profit.

 

[Timerover51]

Piper was ahead of you there. The following quote comes from Space Viking.

Every Viking ship had its own carniculture vats, but men tired of carniculture meat, and fresh meat was always in demand. Some day, he hoped, kregg-beef would be an item of sale to ships putting in on Tanith, and the long-haired hides might even find a market in the Sword-Worlds.

 

[WistfulD]

Even though carniculture and hydroponics produces agricultural goods just the same as more traditional methods. And cheaper. And in greater abundance for the same acreage.


Hans

Well, you have to get through the proof-of-concept stage before you get to the ready-for-the-market stage.

 

[rancke]

Well, you have to get through the proof-of-concept stage before you get to the ready-for-the-market stage.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say, but the proof of concept stage is TL7 or 8 depending on whether you think Earth's TL is 7 or 8 today (Application TL is probably a TL or two lower). By TL9+ the ready-for-market stage should have been over long ago. Especially 3000 years in the future.


Hans

 

[rancke]

Which is pretty much what taste tests from real experiments with vat grown meat report, with results ranging from 'sort of tastes like the real thing' to 'hand me the sick bag'.

A slab of meat isn't just muscle, but a complex mix of proteins, fats, collagens, ligaments and blood, whereas the initial trials of vat meat resemble a pale yellow goo that looks (and tastes) similar to 'cold snot on a plate'. It has to be artificially coloured and shaped to even begin pretending to be real.

But that's not really a problem. It's already possible to color and texture it to begin to pretend to be real: World's first lab-grown burger.... And it's extremely unlikely that techniques won't improve as tech levels increase. By TL15 (or earlier) it could easily be well-nigh impossible to taste the difference.

Note that the kind of carniculture Piper and Pohl & Kornbluth envisage are actual slabs of real meat.

And while the 'real food tastes better' trope is a well-established SF trope, the 'real meat makes me sick' trope is also well-established. It's perfectly possible that people reared on carniculture meat would think that real meat tasted funny. So-called natural food might well be an acquired taste.


Hans

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

You know, Textured Vegetable Protein has been around for awhile and if they can lick the problems with making soybeans taste like meat, then I bet they can do it with actual meat.

 

[Condottiere]

A very rare steak could be the chef carving out a slice straight out of the vat and throwing it on the plate for immediate service.

 

[Selandia]

.......
After a few months of eating it, any trader landing with a hold of 'the real stuff' would be mobbed by a populace who would cheerfully offer their firstborn for just a 'wafer thin slice of meat'. And of course if there is a local Aslan or Vargr population, then the 'bidding war' could turn into a blood sport.

Who needs a hold full of radioactives for fun and profit.

That is the reason why a TL8 world with 30 billions of people ATh-3 Hyd-0 (Rethe spin 2408)does have more than a E class starport even if that is the official Survey rating. There will always be a market for "real food", even if Asteroid belt or vacuum world could hydroponic or pisci or carno culture for the daily fare of the masses . Even 1% of thoses billions provide a huge demands. E class starport simply mean that you run-in the stuff using private spaceport.

have fun

Selandia

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Yeah, right.

You know, Textured Vegetable Protein has been around for awhile and if they can lick the problems with making soybeans taste like meat, then I bet they can do it with actual meat.

Please let me know when they actually get soy to taste like meat. I'd like to taste the improvements since I last had it. Till then, and probably after I will keep feeding the death of other animals.

 

[Timerover51]

Please let me know when they actually get soy to taste like meat. I'd like to taste the improvements since I last had it. Till then, and probably after I will keep feeding the death of other animals.

i ate textured soybean protein hamburgers in college. Clearly, the person who authored the following quote has never been subjected to such ill-treatment.

You know, Textured Vegetable Protein has been around for awhile and if they can lick the problems with making soybeans taste like meat, then I bet they can do it with actual meat.

As for the example of Rethe being quoted, that is one of the more bizarre results of random die rolling for planetary characteristics, which should have been rejected off-hand when rolled.

 

[samuelvss]

Which is pretty much what taste tests from real experiments with vat grown meat report, with results ranging from 'sort of tastes like the real thing' to 'hand me the sick bag'.

A slab of meat isn't just muscle, but a complex mix of proteins, fats, collagens, ligaments and blood, whereas the initial trials of vat meat resemble a pale yellow goo that looks (and tastes) similar to 'cold snot on a plate'. It has to be artificially coloured and shaped to even begin pretending to be real.

After a few months of eating it, any trader landing with a hold of 'the real stuff' would be mobbed by a populace who would cheerfully offer their firstborn for just a 'wafer thin slice of meat'.

Well, I think that using the "proof of concept" to judge the mature technology is like using the Wright Flyer to decide whether planes could break the sound barrier, or when Scramjet would be feasible.

As to carniculture, those who grow up knowing the difference may, as Piper predicts, notice the difference. Maybe not. It is really anyone's guess, though, just from the initial efforts. The fact that some with a taste for a single malt can't abide blended Scotch hasn't exactly put the blended whisky dealers out of business.

72 Billion souls on a small, airless planet are not likely to have gotten a good taste for the real stuff, though.

The basic lesson from the Wrigth Flyer I get is that if it's possible, it will get much, much better. Maybe better than we could predict with any real clarity.

 

[rancke]

As for the example of Rethe being quoted, that is one of the more bizarre results of random die rolling for planetary characteristics, which should have been rejected off-hand when rolled.

True. The starport class should have been C+ at a minimum.


Hans

 

[Blue Ghost]

You'd think at TL-19 there'd be some good tasting Whoppers at the local BK.

 

[Timerover51]

You'd think at TL-19 there'd be some good tasting Whoppers at the local BK.

That might depend on what sort of meat animal the carniculture vat product is based on. There is a big difference in taste between the beef of an Angus and the beef of an elderly Holstein dairy cow.

 

[Selandia]

Should overcooked minced meat patties with "our special dressing" be rated as TL-1 (the TL of mustard?) or TL-6 (mass marketing gimmick)

have fun

Selandia

 

[Timerover51]

Should overcooked minced meat patties with "our special dressing" be rated as TL-1 (the TL of mustard?) or TL-6 (mass marketing gimmick)

have fun

Selandia

The reason the patties are overcooked has much less to do with marketing and much more to do with liability attorneys looking for clients. No restaurant wants to have customers filing lawsuits for getting sick from undercooked meat. Just about every menu that I look at has a warning about the hazards of eating less than well-done meat.