Does Hydrogen exist in Jump Space?

[Spaceresearcher]

Hello fellow Travellers,
Something I've been wondering about is the existence of Hydrogen in Jump Space. Reading pages 371 - 375, the information is understandably starship movement using jump drives, no real mention of fuel usage. (Eg does your fuel evaporate while your in jump or only when your out of jump?).

I was thinking of an idea involving refueling in jump space in order to boost your jump capability a little futher.

I'd be curious to know what others think on the idea of Hydrogen existing in jump space(the most available element in the universe righ?).

 

[HG_B]

I'd be curious to know what others think on the idea of Hydrogen existing in jump space(the most available element in the universe righ?).

The most available element in Normal space. J-space isn't part of our space. I haven't found much but, in reading pretty much every Trav rule book it would seem that you aren't going to be able to find and pull anything out of J-space.

 

[whulorigan]

Hello fellow Travellers,
Something I've been wondering about is the existence of Hydrogen in Jump Space.

I'd be curious to know what others think on the idea of Hydrogen existing in jump space(the most available element in the universe right?).

Two things to note:

1) Jump Space is described as having physical laws that are ALIEN to the Normal Space we are familiar with. Starships need to maintain a Jump Field to keep the alien physics of Jump Space out (among other things) which would otherwise destroy the ship w/o a trace. From a High-Energy Physics standpoint, that means there is a high degree of probability that the normal subatomic particles that we are familiar with (and hence the atoms that they form) would either not be able to natively exist, or at least would not be stable, in J-Space apart from the J-Field. In fact, the normal 4 fundamental forces of physics may be of different character, or be different altogether.

2) There is a certain amount of Traveller canon that suggests that J-Space may not even exist except when the J-Drive is operating and supplying the energy necessary to create or maintain it.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Really?

Two things to note:

1) Jump Space is described as having physical laws that are ALIEN to the Normal Space we are familiar with. Starships need to maintain a Jump Field to keep the alien physics of Jump Space out (among other things) which would otherwise destroy the ship w/o a trace. From a High-Energy Physics standpoint, that means there is a high degree of probability that the normal subatomic particles that we are familiar with (and hence the atoms that they form) would either not be able to natively exist, or at least would not be stable, in J-Space apart from the J-Field. In fact, the normal 4 fundamental forces of physics may be of different character, or be different altogether.

2) There is a certain amount of Traveller canon that suggests that J-Space may not even exist except when the J-Drive is operating and supplying the energy necessary to create or maintain it.

I agree on point 1, and what canon is the basis for point 2? Curious, that is a new interpretation to me.

 

[whulorigan]

I agree on point 1, and what canon is the basis for point 2? Curious, that is a new interpretation to me.

I don't have an immediate reference, but I know I have heard it suggested somewhere in Traveller material. It might have been in an interview with David Nilsen when he was discussing the nature of Jump Space (but I do not recall).

Also, in DGP's Starship Operator's Manual, they advanced the idea that the various "Jump Spaces" were related to Supergravity Theory's extra dimensions, and that the Jump Spaces represented universe-dimensions that had shrunk to zero-size shortly after the Big Bang, but are "re-expanded" and utilized by the Jump-Drive when it is in operation.

In any event, I am not personally sold on point 2, I just mention it as having been suggested.

 

[esampson]

Even if hydrogen where available in Jumpspace (which is doubtful) and you were somehow able to scoop it up with all sorts of unpleasantness occurring as something from Jumpspace crosses your ship's jump-field it wouldn't matter. Your trip through Jumpspace is (relatively) predetermined at the moment of Jump and short of the destruction of the ship there is nothing that can alter that (and possibly even that would simply result in the wreckage emerging at the predetermined point).

Remember, you can't just shut off your jump drive early, so why would you be able to run it longer?

 

[SpaceBadger]

I also don't see how you could gather anything out of Jump Space even if something were there, as I believe it is canon that anything extended beyond your Jump Bubble or Jump Grid is disintegrated, and that makes it rather difficult to interact w Jump Space in any way.

 

[arentol]

Per the Jump Drive section in the T5 rules, when you are "in" J-Space you are actually inside a field that is in J-space. It also says that if the field is breached then whatever is in it is very badly damaged and/or destroyed.

So while this information doesn't tell us whether Hydrogen exists in J-Space, what it does tell us is that whether it exists or not.... You can't get none.

So you can't refuel in jump space.

 

[esampson]

It should be noted that if you really need to make a 'long jump' you can use drop tanks. There's multiple ways you can use them but probably the easiest is to have tanks large enough to hold the fuel for a maximum jump. Before jump you feed the fuel from the tanks to the power plant/jump drive, drop the tanks, and jump.

This method is stated in the T5 book as standard use of drop tanks. It appears that all the jump fuel is used just prior to jump and I suppose the power plant keeps the jump field energized while the ship is in jump space.

When the ship precipitates I believe there is a period where the engineer is looking over the engines and recalibrating and the navigator should probably work out the next jump at this point with the new data that can be observed but it is possible to jump again almost immediately (at some risk). Then the ship makes another jump using its normal fuel supply. Since most ships normally contain enough power plant fuel to run for a month there's no problem with the fact that two weeks were spent in consecutive jumps.

It's also possible to keep the jump tanks attached when you jump, though this will degrade jump performance. At first that may seem self defeating but as an example a Scout/Courier with 100 ton drop tanks could make 4 consecutive Jump-1's (each using 20 tons of fuel) followed by a Jump-2 using the final 20 tons. At that point the ship would have enough fuel for one more Jump-2. Total distance jumped before refueling would be 8 parsecs over 6 weeks. Ships with higher jump ratings could benefit even more.

Of course this would require the addition of at least a ton of space in the ship for pumps (and possibly more) as well as potentially requiring some extra fuel set aside to run the power plant for longer periods. Additionally there is the current problem that I don't believe there's anything listed in the rules for the cost for drop tanks, though you could possible build them as pods (which would require additional tonnage for the grapples).

Not quite the answer you were looking for, but there you go.

Oh, if you are really looking for a setup where a ship can keep jumping for extremely prolonged times without refueling look at the collector. You would drop out of jump space and then use a collector to charge up the jump drive again. They're only rated for 50 jumps but still, that's really good since they will all be full jumps. The other possibility, with a high enough TL, would be an anti-matter plant. Experimental plants become available at TL-16 so maybe you could get the Darrians to build something.