CT+, what would you do?

[robject]

Originally posted by erisred:
Task System
Want - one page "at a glance" task description
Want - one page of task examples

For the moment, we're leaning toward something more granular than your system, Eris -- actually a variant of Aramis' system. Check over at the CT+ Task System topic for the whole shebang.

In short, we're looking at steps of 4 and char/4. And we're keeping the classic 8+ for average tasks out of pure nostalgia or something.

 

[erisred]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I wouldn't bother with advanced character generation systems for CT+ at all.

By adding special duty to the character generation tables characters gain access to a few more skills.

Having two different character generation methods, one of which produces much more skilled characters, always seemed odd to me

I wouldn't do "advanced chargen" either. Have a standard 4 year term career, very much like what CT already has, no reason to fix what isn't broken! I'd just give 4 skills (one for each year) per term rather than 1 + promotion. If you have 3 skills tables for each career, too, that is perfect for 3 rolls and 1 pick.

That should give you enough skills without turning this into GURPS (that's one of my objections to GT...too many skills on the sheet).

BTW, I don't really like Feats/Advantages/Disadvantages or whatever you want to call them. I think those sort of things should come *from* roleplay not character gen.

 

[robject]

Don't worry Eris. All that is old, old news. We're going to just tack on about 35 pages of Redacta or Modernata onto The Traveller Book. That solves most of our problems right away.

Now we have to go checking online bookstores for old copies of TTB...

Time to email Peter Vernon.

 

[erisred]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Going all the way back to the start of this thread I've realised that there is a much quicker way to produce CT+.

Take The Traveller Book, add the two pages it would take to describe the task system, add the eight pages it would take to include the Citizens careers (revising the skill tables slightly to include the skills necessary from LBB4-8 and CotI, possibly add special duty to each career as per MT to make characters compatible skills wise with advanced characters).

Rewrite the combat section slightly to use the T20/T4 armour reduces damage dice then damage, include the personal weapons from LBB4 and CotI - this section would end up being the same length.

Add a two page referee's guide to tasks.

Hey presto, a 172 page book with everything you need to get started, bar the dice...

Yep, that would do it!

We'd still have to argue about just what that task system was, though. Oh, and I think you'd have to add a few skills that aren't in TTB...just a few. I agree that 50 is a goodly number, and I could (do actually

)get by with fewer, broader, skills than that.

I also prefer a weapons and armor system more like GURPS than any of Traveller's (including T20's). Of course, I do damage a bit different...not each die against a Characteristic, I sum the dice and apply all to 1 Characteristic - Armor Value, with any damage remaining after the first Characteristic goes to 0 rolling over to the next, etc.

 

[erisred]

Originally posted by robject:
Don't worry Eris. All that is old, old news. We're going to just tack on about 35 pages of Redacta or Modernata onto The Traveller Book. That solves most of our problems right away.

Now we have to go checking online bookstores for old copies of TTB...

Time to email Peter Vernon.

That's what I get when I arrive a few days late!

 

[Takei]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Going all the way back to the start of this thread I've realised that there is a much quicker way to produce CT+.

Take The Traveller Book,...

Would that be TTB+ instead of CT+

Seriously though, that sounds like the way to go.

 

[jappel]

Well... while Sigg has (once again!) found an elegant potential solution, I think this one has a few issues:

- Unless I'm mistaken, we still have broken world/system generation, multi-ton computers, etc.

- I don't yet have a copy of TTB (might soon) but how does it handle starship construction and combat?

- How integrated is the 3I setting with the rules?

- As someone pointed out, TTB is not available except at a dear price on the secondary market.

Unless the idea is to integrate these things directly into TTB... I mean, might as well fix the other things if we're going to have to type the whole thing up anyway (unless someone really has an inside line to MWM for an electronic copy).

Probably some other things I'm missing here. I'm going to cut & paste that post of Hunter's vision and keep it next to me while I work on these other things and keep asking myself "How does this fit in with achieving these stated goals?"

- John

 

[robject]

I had no idea things would move this fast. Apparently there was more common ground here than I first thought.

 

[Berg]

Great minds think alike

Tom

 

[jappel]

BTW robject, your PM queue is full, so I can't reply to your most recent missives.

- John

 

[Takei]

Originally posted by jappel:
Well... while Sigg has (once again!) found an elegant potential solution, I think this one has a few issues:

- Unless I'm mistaken, we still have broken world/system generation, multi-ton computers, etc.

The simple world/system generation from T20 can be dropped in there.
The multi-ton computers can be called sensors instead and assume that all computing requirements are rolled into the bridge tonnage.

- I don't yet have a copy of TTB (might soon) but how does it handle starship construction and combat?

Just like LBB2.

- How integrated is the 3I setting with the rules?

Not very integrated at all. 10 pages of history and library data (including the Regina subsector two-page spread).

 

[robject]

Originally posted by jappel:
Well... while Sigg has (once again!) found an elegant potential solution, I think this one has a few issues:

- Unless I'm mistaken, we still have broken world/system generation, multi-ton computers, etc.

- I don't yet have a copy of TTB (might soon) but how does it handle starship construction and combat?

- How integrated is the 3I setting with the rules?

- John

World-gen is fine as-is. By 'fine' I don't mean perfect, but it works, and I think I don't want to open up that can of worms. We're not considering Book 6 at this moment...

Multi-ton computers have been handwaved well-enough by Sigg ( Computer + Comms + Interfaces + Sensor/ECM Suits = volume ) -- at least for TL12. There is room for discussion.

TTB is the LBBs with a few pages of OTU tacked on the very end.

 

[jappel]

Thanks for the info gents.

BTW, my issues with CT worldbuilding is that you so often get results that are patently ridiculous. (Pixie, population 90 sophonts, with high TL, a Class A starport and a naval base? Worlds with a 2000 mile diameter with an earth-standard atmosphere? Etc.)

I'm not saying we need to do Book 6, the WBH or First In, but I think it would be worthwhile to at least fix something that is so obviously broken. You still want quirks and outliers, and we definitely want more habitable worlds than a strict adherence to current scientific thought would yield. That's just asking too much of people's disbelief suspenders, IMHO.

I'm actually not as hung up about the computers; I figure that some of this is distributed around the ship, part of the sensors, etc., just as most folks. You can also figure some of that is things like power regulation & UPSs, climate control, storage arrays and the like.

I'll admit to having a bias towards a setting-generic rules set, but if you're going to plug people into the 3I anyway (so they'll buy QLI, SJG and FFE stuff, natch) then it does make sense to include what you guys describe.

Hope I'm not coming across as a naysayer! Just trying to make the hull of our old boat will still hold atmo.

- John

 

[erisred]

Originally posted by jappel:
Thanks for the info gents.

BTW, my issues with CT worldbuilding is that you so often get results that are patently ridiculous. (Pixie, population 90 sophonts, with high TL, a Class A starport and a naval base? Worlds with a 2000 mile diameter with an earth-standard atmosphere? Etc.)

I'm not saying we need to do Book 6, the WBH or First In, but I think it would be worthwhile to at least fix something that is so obviously broken. You still want quirks and outliers, and we definitely want more habitable worlds than a strict adherence to current scientific thought would yield. That's just asking too much of people's disbelief suspenders, IMHO.

- John

There is an alternate Basic World Generation sequence that was developed by Jim Vassilakos for Galactica 2.0 that produces much more realistic results. It does the physical stats first, using those generated to modify later ones, then follows up with Social and Technical stats based on the physical ones. Take a look, try it out!

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Variant Main World Generation System for Traveller
--------------------------------------------------

1. World Size. Roll 2d6-2.

2. Atmosphere. Roll 2d6-7+Size.
if size=0 then atmos=0.
confine range to 0-F.

3. Hydrographics. Roll 2d6-7+Size.
if atmos is 1 or less then DM -4
if size is 1 or less then hydro=0
if atmosphere is A-C then DM -4
if atmosphere is E then DM -2
confine range to 0-A

4. Indigenous Life. Roll d12-1 twice, take lower of two rolls
if atmos is 1 or less then life = 0
if atmos is A-C then DM -6
if hydro = 0 then DM -4
if life is A-B then 50% chance of DM +2
confine range 0-D
if life is D then conduct eco-collapse:
atmos=C
hydro, DM -4
confine hydro 0+

Life Stat Explained
-------------------
0: Sterile: No indigenous life. Atmosphere is
not breathable without substantial
co-engineering.
1: Proto-cellular: Indigenous life consisted of
amino acids and/or various primitive
replicators. These may have been wiped out
by transplanted organisms.
2: Single-cellular: Transplants would have
taken over.
3: Multi-cellular: Transplants would have taken
over.
4: Complex microscopic: Lots of colorful ooze.
Transplants would have taken over for the
most part, however, there might be some
indigenous bacteria still competing.
5: Macroscopic: Mainly small indigenous
sea-life which would be competing along side
whatever transplants are present.
6: Primitive ecosystem: Oceans are teaming with
indigenous organisms, but land-based life is
just carving out its niche. Transplants may
have halted the advance of indigenous life,
assuming the two are bio-compatible.
7: Teaming ecosystem: Water/Land/Air-based
herbivores and predators. Transplants would
have a hard time competing in such an
advanced ecosystem. Bio-compatibility would
be an important issue.
8: Proto-sentient: Tool-fabrication, mastery of
fire.
9: Sentient: Agriculture, language, symbology.
A: Non-spacefaring: Planet may be a biological
protectorate (ala the Prime Directive).
B: Early Spacefaring: Indigenous race may have
been given technology or may even have been
genetically uplifted.
C: Cataclysm: Result of either war, plague, or
minor environmental mismanagement. Survivors
are in a state of slow recovery.
D: Green Hell: Result of major environmental
mismanagement. World is transformed into a
greenhouse.

5. Resource Level. Roll 2d6-7+Size
confine range 0-F

Resource Stat Explained
-----------------------
0: Barren
1-4: Poor: Basic chemical diversity necessary
to support indigenous life.
Otherwise, no claim to fame.
5-8: Moderate: Moderate resource base capable
of being exploited for export.
9-C: Rich: Rich resource base, one of which
could command subsector-wide influence.
D+ : Extreme: Very rich resource base, one of
which could command sector-wide
influence.

6. Population. Roll 2d6-2.
if size is 2 or less then DM -1
if atmosphere is 3 or less then DM -3
if atmosphere is A then DM -2
if atmosphere is B then DM -3
if atmosphere is C then DM -4
if atmosphere if greater than C then DM -2
if atmosphere is 6 then DM +3
if atmosphere is 5 or 8 then DM +1
if hydro=0 and atmos>3 then DM -2
if life is 0 then DM -2
if life is 7+ then DM +2
if res is 0 then DM -3
if res is 1-4 then DM -1
if res is 5-8 then DM +1
if res is 9-C then DM +2
if res is D+ then DM +3
confine range to 0-A

6b. Population Multiplier. Roll d10-1.
if pop is 0 then 5 in 6 chance that popmult = 0

7. Starport. Roll 2d6 (use whichever table suits
the locality but remember that high rolls
result in a lower quality starport).
if pop=0 then starport=X
if pop=1 then DM +2
if pop=2 then DM +1
if pop is 6-9 then DM -1
if pop is A then DM -2
confine range to A-X

8. Government. Roll 2d6-7+population.
if pop=0 and popmult=0 then gov=0
confine range to 0-F

9. Law Level. Roll 2d6-7+government.
if gov=0 then law=0
confine range to 0-20

10. Tech Level. Roll d6. Modify as per the
standard chart for starport, size, hydro, and
pop. Modify as per standard chart for
atmosphere except for D-E range.
Modify as per law as follows:
if is law B-D then DM -1
if is law F+ then DM -2
Modify as per government as follows:
if gov = 1 or 5 then DM +1
if gov = 13 or 14 then DM -2
if gov = 6 or 15 then DM -1
if pop=0 & popmult=0 then tech=0
confine lower bound of range to 0

11. Technical Depopulation.
if hydro is 0 or A and pop is at least 6,
then tech must at least be 4.
if atmos is 4, 7 or 9,
then tech must at least be 5.
if atmos is 3 or less or A-C,
then tech must at least be 7.
if atmos is D or F and hydro is A,
then tech must at least be 7.
if tech is less than minimum required tech
then:
pop=0, popmult=0, gov=0, law=0, tech=0,
starport=X

12. Trade Classifications
As per MegaTraveller rules except as follows:
Deleted: Rich, Poor, and Industrial,
Nonindustrial, Non-agro
Modified: Agricultural (may include hydro 9+)
Fluid (no size restriction, atmos
A-C, hydro 1+)

13. Main Export Commodity.
if res = 5+ & tech = 1+ & pop=5+ then try to
assign an export (try as many times as there
are resource points, choosing the best outcome
based on tech level)
if AG then export = d5
otherwise then export = d29+4
if no export is selected, then export=0

Export Stat Explained
---------------------
Roll Tech Etc
0 None 0 -
01 1 Textiles 5 A
02 2 Wood Products 4 A
03 3 Livestock 1 A
04 4 Agro-Consumables 4 A
05 5 Pharmaceuticals 9 -
06 6 Petrochemicals 6 L
07 7 Biologicals 1 L
08 A Antimatter H -
09 B Bio-engineering D -
10 C Computers D -
11 D Industrial Crystals 5 -
12 E Electronics C -
13 F Farm Machinery 5 -
14 G Gemstones 1 -
15 H Heavy Metals 5 -
16 I Industrial Machinery 5 -
17 J Synthetic Fabric 8 -
18 K Synthetic Foods 8 -
19 L Industrial Chemicals 7 -
20 M Rare Minerals 5 -
21 N Weaponry/Armor A -
22 O Radioactives 6 -
23 P Polymers 9 -
24 Q Cybernetics C -
25 R Robots D -
26 S Starships B -
27 T Tools 5 -
28 U Underwater Equipment 7 -
29 V Vehicles/Gravitics 8 -
30 W Banking/Insurance D -
31 X Entertainment D -
32 Y Art/Publishing/News D -
33 Z Information/Research D -

Tech=X: X is the minimum tech level
Etc=A: World must be Agricultural
Etc=L: Life must = 7+

14. Determine Bases, Gas Giants, Planetoid Belts,
and Travel Codes normally.</pre>[/QUOTE]

 

[robject]

I remember when systems like this were being posted on the TML. Jim's isn't the only one.

As Eris' post implies, there are many ways to fix the problem. Also, of all the mini-games of Traveller, worldgen is just about the most modular. It doesn't feed into combat, it doesn't affect characters, and if done "right" it doesn't even change (much) the look and feel of a Travellerlike Random Universe (TRU).

Therefore, I think that unless we have near unanimity on one particular solution, world gen be kept as-is, or overridden with whatever system each person likes better.

The task system and combat are cans 'o worms that we sorta had to open. We don't have to open this one in order to get version 1.0 out the door.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Check all the other threads for my inputs. Exception: I never had the TTB, and wouldn't buy it now. I want LBBs, dagnabit. [Me dancing on roof, singing Tradition!]

 

[robject]

No worries, mate, TTB is just those three books smushed together (well, more or less).

 

[far-trader]

Ah, but it's the format he's agin (I think). I'm tempted to join him on the roof, but well, there's the height and my singing isn't that good

But seriously, if, as it seems, this will be a fan effort, then it's going to be some e-format, and that will well lend itself to being producible in any number of sizes, Classic American LBB or the slightly shorter UK version or the BFB landscape version or simple 8.5 x 11 Book size, or even pseudo LBB by folding 8.5 x 11

It's all "just" typesetting

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Except that it rules! TTB is how to do it. No guff, first three books, and yer off! I just got a new copy to replace the one I got at its release of of ebay for a song. LBBs rule, and should be the format, a common thing all versions should share, but a Referee with a TTB is no bluff. Getting the first one was a happy memory for me. The presentation of the TTB made you want to play it. we used to put Holst on and play it. Awesome!

 

[far-trader]

Hmm, another commanality Baron SvG. Holst rocks! I wonder, did you also mix in some Jarre now and again? Ah, but I drift the topic, we now return you to your regular listening pleasure