CT+, what would you do?

[mike wightman]

Now that T5 is entering playtesting, Hunter has decided that the CT+ project will be no more

Hypothetically, what would you put into CT+?

My list:

LBB1: basic + Citizens character generation tables (and skills), but add a special duty roll to gain more benefits per term. Allow a character to pick two skills, one as a life pursuit and one as a hobby, these skills can be selected instead of a rolled skill, but only once per term.

Add a simple, MT based, task system.

Add weapons and armour from Mercenary.

Use the T4 armour/damage resolution system, modified slightly to match T20.

Starship construction based on T20, starship combat based on Mayday/LBB2 hybrid plus sensor tasks from MT.

Computer program rules from LBB2.

Trade based on T20's tables, but with a per parsec revenue base.

LBB3 as is.

 

[Michael Taylor]

"LBB1: basic + Citizens character generation tables (and skills), but add a special duty roll to gain more benefits per term. Allow a character to pick two skills, one as a life pursuit and one as a hobby, these skills can be selected instead of a rolled skill, but only once per term."

I would eliminate random rolls for skills - we choose our casreers in real life, so let people whoose whether to study navigation or piloting... Keep the "8+ Education only" skill list so some skills are not available to the truly education-challenged. Also add the extra skills from book 4 and 5 to the navy, army and marine careers as choices. After all, why can a pirate get ship tactics but a navy pilot can't?

Put in place skill-0 skills base don homeworld. IMTU each CT characters gets 2 level-0 skills to choose from, based on their homeworld.

 

[Michael Taylor]

I would also change the personal combat system to a damage reduction system for armor. In fact, I have already done so, and also done the document which describes the changes above. Perhaps we could exchange more ideas?

 

[mike wightman]

This is my adaptation, it's really just a combo of T4 and T20:

Armour - divided into two groups, rigid and flexible e.g. cloth armour - flexible AR 6, combat armour - rigid AR 10

Weapons - the usual suspects, each with a number of six sided dice for damage e.g. 3d for civilian slug throwers, 4d for the shotgun, military slug throwers etc.
Some weapons can be armour piercing (ACR DS, gauss rifle), in which case they halve the AR of the armour, others are "blunt" and increase the AR by half again (shotgun).
All laser weapons are armour piercing except against ablat and reflec.

On a successful hit roll damage dice, remove one damage die at a time for each point of effective AR (but note how many are removed) untl only one die of damage remains. Subtract any ramaining AR points from the value of that last remaining die.

[edit]missed a bit. The dice should be removed lowest to highest, e.g. I roll 3,1,5,1 damage for a gauss rifle. The target is wearing combat armour, AR10/2=5 for the GR armour piercing.
So I remove the 1,1, and 3 dice. There are 2 points of AR left over which reduce the 5 to 3.[/edit]

If the armour struck is flexible then kinetic weapons cause one point of damage per "removed" die, in addition to any remaining on the last die.

 

[The Oz]

I prefer a modification of AHL/STRIKER with weapons having a penetration rating and a damage rating and then having (horrors!!!) a penetration roll that determines how much (if any) damage is deducted from the weapon's impact.

As I do it now, both shooter and shootee get 1d6 added to their weapon penetration/armor rating and the difference between the modified armor rating and the modified weapon rating is the number subtracted from =every= die of damage the shooter then rolls.

Example: someone with a gauss pistol (Pen 4, 4d6 damage) shoots someone in cloth armor (Armor 5). Shooter rolls a 3, armor rolls a 4, giving values of 7 vs. 9, giving a -2 on every die of damage. Shooter rolls 2,3,4,6, resulting in 0,1,2,4 or 7 total points of damage.

In practice I did the armor penetration roll (to help hide what armor people were wearing, the shooter rolled their damage, and I applied the DM and (quietly) told the victim what damage they took.

Note that armor could be inpenetrable to a given weapon under this system (without "Called Shots" or "Critical Hits" both of which were possible in my system for =hitting= the target) and weapons could be "always penetrates" against some armors.

 

[robject]

I agree with Sigg mainly, with these changes:

Careers: retrofit many or all of the careers found in the old T5 playtest. Of course, reformat the presentation to look like the CT tables.

AHL/Striker combat with pen + damage, per Oz, but I do like the flexible/rigid armor distinctions too.

It's seems that, whenever I have a starships question, I often ask Sigg, and whenever I have a combat question, I often ask Oz.

 

[aramis]

Lets see, keep the MT changes to basic CG.
Use a Pen+Damage system, either the MT one, or one closer in result to Striker/AHL/CT. Oz's is, to my mind a tad bit steep (unless using D10's...) but somewhat workable.
Use the T20 T&C tables, and craft design, but with MT's damage rules.
Use TNE Initiative and Contacts rules.

Erratta check the ^&*^$&* out of it

 

[Pickles]

My home rules for weapons use both a penetration (Pen) value and a damage roll (Dam). Armour has an armour value (AV).

Penetration allows some weapons to ignore a certain amount of armour. If the AV exceeds Pen, the remaining AV is subtracted from Dam. If Pen equals or exceeds AV, Dam is normal. Pen never adds to Dam.

This is to simulate weapons which have a high penetration, but are not good at causing tissue damage. Similarly, nasty fragmenting rounds cause a lot of damage but have trouble getting through armour.

The system reduces the variables to a minimum, and involves no look-up tables, provided you have the AV and weapon stats recorded on your character (or NPC) sheet.

Sigg, what is the game effect of your flexible/rigid armour rule?

 

[mike wightman]

Flexible armour lets one point of damage through for each die it stops.

Rigid armour doesn't.

e.g. a character in cloth armour (AR6) is shot at and hit by a shotgun (so the AR is treated as AR9). The damage is 3, 3, 1, and 6.
The 1, 3, and 3 dice are removed but still cause 1 point of damage each. There are still 6 points of armour remaining so the 6 damage die is reduced to 0, but the die still counts for 1 point of damage.
Thus the character takes 4 points of damage.

The same shotgun against combat armour would have no effect at all.

 

[Takei]

Originally posted by Bromgrev:
My home rules for weapons use both a penetration (Pen) value and a damage roll (Dam). Armour has an armour value (AV).

I'd certainly be interested in seeing those. Especially considering your sig.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Michael Taylor:
"LBB1: basic + Citizens character generation tables (and skills), but add a special duty roll to gain more benefits per term. Allow a character to pick two skills, one as a life pursuit and one as a hobby, these skills can be selected instead of a rolled skill, but only once per term."

I would eliminate random rolls for skills - we choose our casreers in real life, so let people whoose whether to study navigation or piloting... Keep the "8+ Education only" skill list so some skills are not available to the truly education-challenged. Also add the extra skills from book 4 and 5 to the navy, army and marine careers as choices. After all, why can a pirate get ship tactics but a navy pilot can't?

Put in place skill-0 skills base don homeworld. IMTU each CT characters gets 2 level-0 skills to choose from, based on their homeworld.

Did you ever serve in any armed service Mike? I only ask because you seem to think you have a lot of choice in the skills you develop. You have some, but a lot of times, you just get assigned to learn X Y or Z because it is necessary for someone (ie you) to know it. Some stuff is just taught to you as basic training, but even beyond that, there is often strong pressure to take certain courses. It can be tough to resist. I had to dodge and weave and duck to avoid getting my 404s (CF driver's license). Why? Because once you had it, you got tasked to do a lot of driving whether you wanted to or not. (Hence a good chance of getting another involuntary level of Wheeled Vehicle...). I could have passed on some of the wonderful things I got out of basic and trade training, but the choice wasn't there. Had I been going into operational theaters with real threats, I would have underwent further training. And guess what, it would not have been my choice! Welcome to the military life!

Even in the world outside the military, people often learn skills because the job requires it. You can choose some of your skill development, some is thrust upon you by life.

IMO, YMMV.

 

[kaladorn]

My big beef with weapons systems with multi-dice damage from particular weapons is that that gives a minimum damage. That's silly. I can get a graze from a .50 BMG just like I can get a graze from a .22 LR. The difference in damage won't be much, if it is a graze. Sure, for a solid hit, the .50 will leave a much bigger hole (so mimimum damage might make sense) but there should be some representation of small wounds from big weapons.

 

[far-trader]

Grazes and nicks are generally called "misses" in most (OK, some) game mechanics*. But it would be nice to have a close call kind of injury result. Something that will leave you with noting more than a scar to brag about. Perhaps any miss that is a miss by just 1 on whatever dice roll system is used.

* well, OK, not D&D, in that a hit is a graze or nick until the very last stroke, after all your luck and dodging has run out and you're so tired that the telling blow is struck

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Yeah, Mike, there might be some level of choice involved. But, mostly, there is (in the military, police, paramilitary like the Scouts) a lot of being assigned to things because you are the person someone thought best for the job. (Usually, that means you are the only one not on TDY (Temporary Duty).) And your disagreement doesn't amount to much.

I have always allowed rolling, THEN choosing the table to reflect that wiggle room. You may not want ANY of the skills that a 3 gives you, but you get to choose the lesser of 3 evils.

 

[JAFARR]

(1) I would make make the generation process more like the advanced versions in that you roll for each year.
(2) I would have a combination of basic skills, choice, and randomly assigned skills depending on type of character. For example, you get a basic package of skills as basic training, you have some 0 or 1 level skills due to background, you roll randomly for skills, but you may specify that you are focusing on a particular skill that you need for your next promotion or another reason that you can convince the referee is a plausible reason to focus.
(3) No limit on number of skill levels
(4) Benefits: Rolls on the money table are what you have managed to save during your terms of service. Assume that the character has acquried any basic equipment reasonable to their past history. Unusual or special (for example, military only) equipment must be purchased or acquired by some means up to the PC and referee.
(5) Add level 7 & 8 to benefits tables and add an approiate means of reaching the DM to access those levels. All ship benefits would be on level 8 and add equalivalent benefits to those services that lack them. Make all multiple benefits meaningful. (Don't let additional TAS rolls become wasted rolls.)
(6) Change combat damage system to something like the AD2300 system.
(7) Use High Guard ship design rules.

Guess that is enough for now.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Actually, you could give some good flexibility by allowing the player to pick a skill off of one list (say, Army Life), but requiring rolls on all other lists. This would mean that getting any of the really good skills (Hvy Wpns, Tactics, Computer, etc.) would take a bit of a gamble.

 

[robject]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Actually, you could give some good flexibility by allowing the player to pick a skill off of one list (say, Army Life), but requiring rolls on all other lists.

This is a variant on the Life Pursuits* idea, which I think would work in any version of Traveller.

Life Pursuits: Each term, declare a Life Pursuit skill, thereby having the option of taking levels in that skill or rolling.

 

[Jamus]

That is a good idea.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Which version is that from, robject, MT?

 

[mike wightman]

It's from the old T5 character generation files.