Common History and Culture

[kilemall]

So if the SPA has sovereign immunity, does that mean that anything can go wrong there, that any party can be injured or suffer loss, and no-one is responsible? Wouldn't the 3I, a laws-based entity, have to accept some sort of responsibility, or are starports only visited and used at the ship-owner's risk?

Hmm, as I understand it the 3I is run by the 'rule of men' not the 'rule of law'.

As such, the outcome could be highly variable depending on the politics and connections each party brings to criminal and civil proceedings.

I also expect the Imperium in general would not allow the unending bottomless pit of starport liability, but would enable civil lawsuits against the aggressors for harm done.

Since the 3I is Very Big on interstellar trade and defense, it would likely regard a huge starport stoppage from battle damage to be a direct attack on the Imperium, with criminal prosecution and sentences appropriate to the crime.

UNLESS again, it's political.

 

[GypsyComet]

The T5 extensions to UWP offer two values that can indicate a world's participation in "Imperial Culture".

Acceptance is tied strongly to the Pop value, suggesting that, in general, larger worlds will see more Imperial exposure over centuries and at least be connected to it, if not completely in tune with it.

Strangeness is an indicator of drift or distance from the cultural baseline.

The easiest way to grasp these values are holidays. "We are aware of Imperial holidays (Acceptance), but have our own which are more important to us (Strangeness)."

 

[Ulsyus]

The T5 extensions to UWP offer two values that can indicate a world's participation in "Imperial Culture".

Imperial Culture - that hoary old chestnut again.

Is there such a thing as a Constitution or Statute of Establishment or Declaration of Imperium or such in canon from some point in 3I history?

 

[aramis]

Imperial Culture - that hoary old chestnut again.

Is there such a thing as a Constitution or Statute of Establishment or Declaration of Imperium or such in canon from some point in 3I history?

It's in T4 Milieux Zero.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Trade will bring a more uniform culture, especially since it it legally enforced.

In T4 Milieu 0, The Ministry of Trade, well, trade. It determines sets standards via the Office of Standards, determines determines adherence via the Office of Calendar Compliance and has a law-enforcement arm, the Imperial Office of Justice. In later years it becomes the Ministry of Justice (Milieu 0, pg 47 and 51).

Since the Imperium rules the space between the stars, it can and does dictate "off-world" trade. At least the official stuff. Pirates and black-market won't care except to make things street legal.
Er...space legal.

 

[Ulsyus]

Thanks Aramis!

T4 M0 p7. Regarding the proposed de-centralised system of interstellar government: "this would only be successful if honorable
people were in control of the government at every
level. Corruption should never be part of any government,
but it would be particularly disastrous under this decentralized
model."

So at the start of the 3I, one of the foundational cultural considerations, besides Honour and Duty, is this strong emphasis on the destructive power of corruption.

They sound like a pretty good start, and they're canonical. What's the consequences 1100 years later? Are they still core values of the nobility? Is corruption still rooted out as the arch-nemesis of the honourable and dutiful Imperial?

 

[aramis]

Thanks Aramis!

T4 M0 p7. Regarding the proposed de-centralised system of interstellar government: "this would only be successful if honorable
people were in control of the government at every
level. Corruption should never be part of any government,
but it would be particularly disastrous under this decentralized
model."

So at the start of the 3I, one of the foundational cultural considerations, besides Honour and Duty, is this strong emphasis on the destructive power of corruption.

They sound like a pretty good start, and they're canonical. What's the consequences 1100 years later? Are they still core values of the nobility? Is corruption still rooted out as the arch-nemesis of the honourable and dutiful Imperial?

By 600, we see forms of corruption that none could have forseen... Go read Agent of the Imperium

 

[kilemall]

Thanks Aramis!

T4 M0 p7. Regarding the proposed de-centralised system of interstellar government: "this would only be successful if honorable
people were in control of the government at every
level. Corruption should never be part of any government,
but it would be particularly disastrous under this decentralized
model."

So at the start of the 3I, one of the foundational cultural considerations, besides Honour and Duty, is this strong emphasis on the destructive power of corruption.

They sound like a pretty good start, and they're canonical. What's the consequences 1100 years later? Are they still core values of the nobility? Is corruption still rooted out as the arch-nemesis of the honourable and dutiful Imperial?

I'll answer this sideways, by throwing out the example of Roddenberry's Federation in Star Trek.

By the time of ST:TNG the Federation and Starfleet seems to have shucked their freebooting frontier 'get er done no matter how messy and how many space babies starship captains leave behind' and gone to some idealized self-actuated 'we're beyond money and evil' societal model.

Yet, you need to tell a story each week. Enter aliens who are not as 'civilized' as the progenitors of any conflict, as the Federation metaculture ensures no one from Earth would ever be a nasty unless they have gone insane or were from the barbaric past.

It was so clear, the series writers even parodied it in this classic 'Root Beer' scene-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hdiuRMK3UQ

Soon as Roddenberry was gone, both the series' and the movies dropped the perfect Federation and rediscovered a whole range of stories.

Examples-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VixYS0xm5LI

So, I wouldn't waste the brain cycles trying to project what happens to future society. The answer is some nobles are trying to do right, and others are doing wrong, and therein lies a tale and adventure fodder.

 

[Ulsyus]

So, I wouldn't waste the brain cycles trying to project what happens to future society. The answer is some nobles are trying to do right, and others are doing wrong, and therein lies a tale and adventure fodder.

But the 3I was never written as anything like Federation space in Star Trek. I get your point about utopian societies needing external protagonists to be able to provide script-fodder, but the 3I isn't that at all.

My question still stands. Does that focus on honour and duty, for the nobility and those seeking to become one, form the foundation of what could be considered 3I culture, and how would it have morphed 1100 years later? If the universe is accepted as not utopian, what tolerance is there for behaviour outside the norms of those foundational concepts of 3I culture, and what are the sanctions taken against those who breach them?

Yes, the place isn't perfect. Yes, of course there are going to be people who breach the conventions, laws and social contracts. But how strong are those contracts, and what to they look like a long way from the Core?

 

[GypsyComet]

What's the consequences 1100 years later? Are they still core values of the nobility? Is corruption still rooted out as the arch-nemesis of the honourable and dutiful Imperial?

Ask each generation's nobles, and each Emperor, and you'll get an ever evolving set of answers. Noble corruption is, in the case of the Imperium, defined by the Emperor. If ennobled persons are found abusing their stations in ways that do not benefit the Imperium, they get removed. Sometimes with prejudice.

The mixture of honor and huge amounts of money is delicately balanced, which is one reason two of the three classes of Noble are expressly paid for their work and station, while the third is handed two emphatic yet symbolic tools: the keys to wealth and the rope that will hang them.

 

[Ulsyus]

"Uh, yes, citizen. We are making progress in this investigation, although there are many witnesses to interview who have gone off-world. Our interim SPA director is handling the matter personally while the former SPA director has been placed on indefinite leave. In the meantime, please accept these gift cards, good at any SPA media dispensary, and enjoy our facilities at your leisure. Thank you for your interest. We appreciate your concern. Now, if you'll excuse me ..."

So accepting of responsibility to a limit and where necessary, but really only accountable where the injured party is of sufficient means and/or status?

Eg: Captain Nog of the Beowulf class free trader "Barely Making Repayments" - see above offer.

Lord Tywian, Count of Bleagh, Exec Dir of Extensive Holdings LLC - "Certainly Sir, our legal team is on it currently, we should have a response for your counsel tomorrow."

Something like that?