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Brilliant Lances-- yeah, buddy!

Jeffr0

SOC-14 1K
I just picked up a copy for ten bucks.

Man, I'm stoked.

Three super-mega-giant-hex maps... counter sheets with really large versions of the Traveller ships, design rules, and rulebook. Yeah, buddy. (After GT, The Classic Games, GTIW, CT LBB 1-3, T4, and CT CDRom, it's good to have some "real" Traveller space combat game-play stuff instead of the makeshift maps and counters I've been using. Dang I've been through some Traveller stuff.)

Glad to finally know why they called it "Brilliant Lances", too. I imagine that's poetry from David Nilsen.

Somebody tell me this is the best space combat game ever made.

If everyone can leave me alone at the house, I'll be finding out if they finally did a sandcaster ruleset that makes sense.
 
it was very realistic. it was slow to play, too. I found it cumbersome. But it was highly respected for realism.
 
it was very realistic. it was slow to play, too. I found it cumbersome. But it was highly respected for realism.

I'm a realism hound, but I couldn't get into either. The fact that I didn't like TNE or the TNE game mechanics probably didn't help. I felt it was "too much". Too unweildy. I much prefer LBB2 space combat.

I've got a not-that-used copy of Brilliant Lance that I bought brand new back in the day.

And, if you'll believe it, I've also got Battle Rider, purchased brand new in the 90's...and the counters aren't even punched.

I never use them.

I think I'm going to stick all my TNE stuff up on eBay. Gotta remember to get around to doing that.
 
it was very realistic. it was slow to play, too. I found it cumbersome. But it was highly respected for realism.

If you've got a group of PCs on a ship, it's a great system for combat. You know exactly what gets hit, and what needs repairs. Lots of opportunities to be had there.

I found it a bit too much detail for much casual play, though, for exactly those reasons. Battle Rider is a much-streamlined version of starship combat, where it's easy to watch squadrons of heavy cruisers kill each other at a blistering pace.

Let us know what you think of it after you give a try!
 
I love the facing and hit location rules. Very nice. Lots of flavor there that I haven't seen in other iterations....

The sensor lock-on rules sound nuts-- they depend on both players secretly calculating the modifiers. The target gives the sensing ship a difficulty shift... and even secretly rolls to jam sometimes. The sensing ship also rolls more or less in secret. For something so detailed to be so dependent on trust I'd think it wouldn't be workable. (But the secret and simultaneous go-active and extend-passive chits are cool... as is the hand-off rules and the lock tracking chits....)
 
If you want a pretty detailed space battle between a couple of ships, it is definitely one of the best.

If you want quick and dirty combat, stay away. :)
 
This is before computer generated art and everything looks great. The control panel record sheet is great: it's what every other version of Traveller lacks just about...

(Also, the new vector system is great, too. No more string or before-now-next counters to track everything.)

The scenarios are also strong: eight from several mileux. Very nice. Too many systems cut corners here.

But they really should have included usable record sheets. Like I want to spend an hour or three picking through the charts and tables to dig up some values for this sort of thing. (The SFB/BattleTech family of games sure made the right move here....) Anything that makes it possible to just open a box and start a game is a good thing. This is just enough "strikeritus" to take the fun out.

Summary: Surface hits? Yea! Facing matters in damage assessment? Yea! Record Sheets? Yea! Filled out already? No... BOO! Neat sensor rules? Yea! Actually playable in a friendly competition? No way... BOO!

There's a lot of good rules-- things are done "right" and are mostly explained so that you can know what the rules are trying to simulate. (Good explanation of sand casters, for example.) But the designers seem to have no interest in playability or, you know... game design.

As a spec for a computer game, however...

(Hoo boy... that's the bottom line for way too much Traveller stuff. No wonder there's so many LBB fans-- a broken system that's playable is better than an unusable one.)
 
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But they really should have included usable record sheets...

Summary: Surface hits? Yea! Facing matters in damage assessment? Yea! Record Sheets? Yea! Filled out already? No... BOO!

I think 'the plan' called for GDW to release a set of pre-prepared record forms for different classes of ship. They went belly-up first, of course.

What we did was, we filled out a sheet for a ship class, then xeroxed it a few times. Not quite out-of-the-box, but it saved time down the road.
 
The sensor rules are about as good as any I've seen.

I've gone through the sample ships and noted their ratings-- typical warships (small) will have Active-10 and Passive(folding)-5... and then maybe a jammer or EM masking.

The typical modifiers aren't that many... just lots of special cases.

It will take some time to dig through, but it looks like they've covered all the bases there-- it may be complex, but it's been thought through for me already.
 
The sensor rules are about as good as any I've seen.

I've gone through the sample ships and noted their ratings-- typical warships (small) will have Active-10 and Passive(folding)-5... and then maybe a jammer or EM masking.

The typical modifiers aren't that many... just lots of special cases.

I have often thought of CT-izing it.

As with DGP's sensor rules. They're not bad rules. Pretty neat in some aspects. But, they're a bit clumsy (never did like the dual throw truth/no truth aspect of MT tasks).

But...the DGP sensor system would be extremely easy to simplify and write up as a CT document.

I've thought (in the past, when I used to play around with Brilliant Lances) if one went through the rules and converted it to a simple CT system, what it would look like.

Heck, it might even be playable!
 
What it is, and what it never was

Interesting thread, and I think you guys really hit on what is going on with BL, Aramis in particular, that "you almost need a referee for competitive play."

That's exactly what BL was intended to be: an aid to help referees accurately portray Traveller space combat to the players and how it is connected to all of the other crucial pieces of the game.

Character generation and skills. Players spend a lot of time trying to build the character they want, with the right key skills.

Task resolution system. Players want to see those skills used in key, meaningful ways because this is a roleplaying game.

Gearhead/FF&S design stuff. Players want to design weapons systems and ships that are more effective and powerful than the alternatives, or more efficient in the roles for which they are intended, and they want to see this played out in concrete ways.

A realistic vector-based movement system that allows players to appreciate the actual environment they are operating in: planets (objectives), orbits, time-distance, the importance of the detection fight, and all of the tactics that come from that.

Player level details on damage, "what happened to our ship," "how long will it take us to repair it to resume our operations."

BL is intended to take all of those things seriously at the same level of detail that the rest of the game does. It was intended to allow the referee to let the players play out what happens when their free trader meets the pirate or the patrol cruiser coming to repossess them, and see all of those details that they are heavily invested in seeing.

Traveller had not had tools to do that for a long time, and it was showing in the story telling we were getting in submitted adventures. Starship encounters were deterministic caricatures with no room for the players to exercise their skills, equipment, and smarts to control their destiny. An enemy ship would appear, knock out their power plant, and they were being boarded. If a space-oriented SF game can't put starship combat front and center, what is the point?

BL was a detailed aid, or perhaps simulator, for role-playing, to bring in all of the gearhead, chargen, task resolution, and player creativity and combine them so players could see all of these details coming together. If Traveller didn't have a space combat system that allowed chargen, for all those precious skills and task rolls, to make a difference, that allowed all of the gearhead FF&S design to make a difference, that let them understand how their ship--in most Traveller campaigns, a character in her own right-- was affected, and see all of that in a realistic space environment, then what did we have all of those subsystems for?

BL was not "a game," it was the most detailed manifestation of the core rules. However, as TNE development went on, it emerged that we would not be able to include this stuff in a basic set, so it had to be spun off on its own in its own box and called "a game." But it never really was "a game," it was the RPG presented at the same level of detail that the RPG presented its other subsystems.

Logically, when BL became "a game," it could have been simplified or abstracted and loosen those ties with the core mechanics of chargen, task resolution, equipment and starship design, etc, but then what would have been the point? We'd have still been without a serious attempt to present what starship combat looked like for PCs, but with an abstracted game that separated starship combat from all of these other things that players wanted to be important. So I didn't abstract it; this was our one chance to have a simulation of how the Traveller system envisioned all of these subcomponents working together, at no loss of detail, RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING, so people could experience how the universe worked.

As a game, it's unwieldy. Who remembers what all the skill levels are for every crewmember in a fleet of NPC ships? You don't want to. But if you've got your five or six PCs sitting around the table with the ref, gripping their dice, playing out their roles on the bridge, in their turrets, etc., it gives them meaningful things to do with impact on the outcome, which is what an RPG wants for them, and which BL was a chance to realize.

So BL never really was a game. It was a referee's play aid, and I think I was pretty clear all along that's what it was. However, anything in a box with maps and counters looks like a game, and that's the way either we ended up trying to sell it or how people perceived it.

I'm glad we got a good space combat simulator out there. Once you put out the detailed version to allow PC-level combat resolution, you can pull back and abstract out to your BR fleet action games, where "playability" is the most important consideration. But playability as "a game" with lots of ships and fast, snappy movement and damage resolution was not the goal of BL. Whether or not it actually found its niche as a PC-level RPG realization tool, I don't know, but I'm glad we got a chance to put one out there, and do it as right as we were able.

And you guys picked up on that, which was cool. Sorry it wasn't a game, it was supposed to be part of the core rules, like the wilderness maps and counters or plastic figures are with some boxed RPGs. We released it within months of the core rulebook, as was the plan, and oh, it lost as 1993's Best SF Board Game to...Magic the Gathering. Now there's some foreshadowing for you.

Dave
 
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Dave, nice to see you poke your head in!

For those unaware, Dave was on staff at GDW. TNE Line developer for a while, IIRC.

I will admit I'm still annoyed by the AOTRv1 issues, but I'm mostly past it.

Only reason I bought BL was the design sequences, and that it was cheap in Corvallis at the time (25% below MSRP).
 
So BL never really was a game. It was a referee's play aid, and I think I was pretty clear all along that's what it was. However, anything in a box with maps and counters looks like a game, and that's the way either we ended up trying to sell it or how people perceived it.

I'm glad we got a good space combat simulator out there. Once you put out the detailed version to allow PC-level combat resolution, you can pull back and abstract out to your BR fleet action games, where "playability" is the most important consideration. But playability as "a game" with lots of ships and fast, snappy movement and damage resolution was not the goal of BL. Whether or not it actually found its niche as a PC-level RPG realization tool, I don't know, but I'm glad we got a chance to put one out there, and do it as right as we were able.

As a product release, I thought it was excellent -- for all of the reasons mentioned here. For all of these reasons, to me, it was pure Traveller, and it fit square with the product line as presented.

It's hard for some to appreciate how well the base foundation holds throughout TNE. Those foundations being found essentially in the Combat mechanics and in the design sequences from FF&S.

The starship combat rules in the TNE rulebook are, probably, 65-75% of the rules in BL. Most of it is in there already, notably missing are the movement rules (TNE abstracted that), and the sensor rules were simpler as well. But most of the rest of it was in there, and lightly refined in BL.

BR was effectively the same system, only scaled up to screens and spinal mounts, with missiles heavily tweaked for play value. But you can see the core is the same.

BL design sequence system is FF&S-lite. Again, same system, but with some pre-assembled components (notably a weapons list) and other assumptions that are more detailed with FF&S.

At the combat level, it's all the same roots, and readily applied. You can shoot your starships laser at the enraged native rushing you with a spear. The rules are there, as well as the mechanics (hint -- it doesn't look good for the native). You can fire your grav tanks fusion gun at the star ship as it accelerates out of the atmosphere, clawing for altitude. Or it's auto cannon, or large bore gauss cannon, tac missile, napoleonic mortar, or slingshot.

The physics are the same from game to game, across the universe. There's no Bk2 v Bk5 discrepancies here.

I know it's crunchy, but FF&S-lite and BR show how it can get less and less crunchy without completely compromising or throwing out your designs from system to system.

I do wish they had more time with this, and to me, it just showed the attention to detail these guys had, and how they just struggled to make as few compromises as necessary to put the sci-fi we like in to the physics we know.
 
The physics are the same from game to game, across the universe. There's no Bk2 v Bk5 discrepancies here.

I know it's crunchy, but FF&S-lite and BR show how it can get less and less crunchy without completely compromising or throwing out your designs from system to system.

I do wish they had more time with this, and to me, it just showed the attention to detail these guys had, and how they just struggled to make as few compromises as necessary to put the sci-fi we like in to the physics we know.

Thanks, whartung, I appreciate that. I felt like we needed to get BL out there to show, "this is how it really works--but it's really detailed" before we started abstracting and washing out details. In my mind that would have been a disservice to the players, because a lot of them like and would want that level of detail, they wouldn't get a simulation that retains all of the PC/RPG level of detail, and they'd be jumped forward several levels of abstraction/detachment without being able to see for themselves how they connect.

Dave
 
I felt like we needed to get BL out there to show, "this is how it really works--but it's really detailed" before we started abstracting and washing out details.


That's interesting to read because it somewhat confirms my suspicions regarding the thinking behind BL's design. GDW wanted to have as detailed a space combat simulation as possible in hand before they began abstracting and simplifying. They also wanted that simulation to fit seamlessly as possible into the rest of the game's combat systems, hence your earlier comments about firing a ship's laser at a guy with a spear or firing a MBT's main gun at a ship.

Here at COTI we've hundreds of thread in which people attempt the same thing but from the opposite direction. We examine the two systems in LBB:2, Mayday, HG2, and others to attempt to derive the detailed "base" simulation. Of course we repeatedly fail because those systems were never spun out of a base simulation.

Having in hand a highly detailed, highly crunchy base simulation of space combat first and then spinning various space combat systems at various levels of abstraction from that base simulation was an excellent idea.

Releasing that highly detailed, highly crunchy base simulation of space combat as TNE's first stand alone space combat game was not a good idea.

More people play VG's Fleet series than Bond's Harpoon, more people play AH's Panzerblitz than Tobruk, the market for ASL is much smaller than the market for other games with a similar scale, and the reasons for all of that are the same.

Detail is great in it's place. I love BL's detail, just as I love Harpoon's detail. Despite that and despite being a grognard whose playing days date back to the Nixon Administration, my total BL games number in the low dozens and my BL FTF games number in single digits. In the same period of time, I've played a Mayday/HG2 fusion hundreds of times. A similar ratio holds true between my plays of Harpoon and the Fleet series and for the same reasons.

In my mind that would have been a disservice to the players, because a lot of them like and would want that level of detail, they wouldn't get a simulation that retains all of the PC/RPG level of detail, and they'd be jumped forward several levels of abstraction/detachment without being able to see for themselves how they connect.

That's a laudable goal. Deciding that every variety of TNE combat would be interconnected at the most basic level was the right decision. Releasing the highly detailed and crunchy basic level first was the wrong decision.

Stretching a programming analogy here, it was if you handed us a C++ manual before handing us the games written in C++.

I like Brilliant Lances, I play Brilliant Lances, and I wish there was a somewhat more abstracted version of Brilliant Lances I could play more often.
 
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