Blue Darrians

[aramis]

Hans, Darrians have been called space elves since pretty close to their first appearance, and AM8 did nothing but reinforce that stereotype. Plus, Roger Moore, who wrote the article on Darrians, also did a space dwarves article in Dragon for use with Traveller.

 

[rancke]

Hans, Darrians have been called space elves since pretty close to their first appearance, and AM8 did nothing but reinforce that stereotype.

OK, I'll bite. Other than being tall and slim and having pointy ears, what is the Elven stereotype and how do Darrians conform to it?


Hans

 

[aramis]

Stoic, artistic, pacifistic, nature-loving, but having a right-nasty warior streak when pressed too hard in defense of home.

All of which are in AM8, and all but the artistic are in the JTAS article.

And AM8 also adds reticence to get involved, but quietly hoping for desired factions to win, in wars ragin just outside their borders... Not unlike many portrayals of elven leadership.

 

[Border Reiver]

Let's add golden skin, living in trees, musical talent and mysterious powerful weaponry; all archetypical of the classic fantasy wood elf.

 

[mike wightman]

emm - flame sculpting?

Very similar to what the elves got up to in the Silmarillion...

 

[Border Reiver]

Oh, and they're not tall. Quite petite in fact. 1.6m according to JTAS 14.

Or according to AM8, they are on average 15% bigger than Terran norm, 2.0m

So like fantasy elves, they can be slim and petite or tall and graceful.

 

[Madarin Dude]

You gotta get to work filing off the serial numbers on this there are too many parallels to the Drow.

1. They are are the same color.
2. They live underground.
3. Have elflike appearance.
4. they are a subgroup of a elflike race.
5. They are despised by the main offshoot of the race.

On one hand Warhammer did that with all their races and had a successful line with 40k. but Traveller players want more than that. They read sci fi and want something that will be more along those lines. That said if you are trying to bring a group of D&D players over to Traveller there should be no better way.

No explanation for the color is not sci fi also . The explanation can be simple. They are very pale and at a young age the skin is dyed permanently because of cultural traditions. You could explain the traditions and maybe something akin to a Bar Mitzvah. Maybe different dyes for male and female maybe different ages.

I guess it would be hard to get a group of D&D players to play Hivers.

 

[aramis]

You gotta get to work filing off the serial numbers on this there are too many parallels to the Drow.

1. They are are the same color.
2. They live underground.
3. Have elflike appearance.
4. they are a subgroup of a elflike race.
5. They are despised by the main offshoot of the race.

On one hand Warhammer did that with all their races and had a successful line with 40k. but Traveller players want more than that. They read sci fi and want something that will be more along those lines. That said if you are trying to bring a group of D&D players over to Traveller there should be no better way.

No explanation for the color is not sci fi also . The explanation can be simple. They are very pale and at a young age the skin is dyed permanently because of cultural traditions. You could explain the traditions and maybe something akin to a Bar Mitzvah. Maybe different dyes for male and female maybe different ages.

I guess it would be hard to get a group of D&D players to play Hivers.

I'm reasonably convinced that 40K is Dune crossed with Traveller... It screams ATU to me, and has since WH40K RT. Which was announced about the time GW lost their CT license...

 

[Dragoner]

Personally I think it's fine to discuss non-canon races here in the Contact section of the board, that's what it's here for and just because it's not mentioned in JTAS14, Alien Module 8 or GURPS Humaniti doesn't make it any less valid. I don't see any mention of any Solomani phenotypes in any canon publication but they certainly are there. And let's face it, Darrians are space elves pure and simple.

Anyway nice write up of the space Drow. I can't see a xenophobic, agoraphobic race isolated for centuries producing Tech 15/16 weapons let alone maintaining examples made in better days but the idea behind them is passable.

Vilani & Vargr dropped some great hints about Vargr subraces and cultural regions. I see no reason not to have them in an OTU setting but I would prefer to have them kept secret. Perhaps rather than surviving underground on a mainworld they could be based way out at the edge of a system on a minor dwarf planet or even in deep space. There they could infiltrate Darrian society, operate as pirates and slavers and all that Drow stuff and be no more than space myth. The question would be how do they survive all that time without detection?

Thanks. For the tech angle, I figure, desperation in losing their wars bred the necessity of turing to technology to overcome their disadvantages. They harbor forbidden tech like the Ixians as well in my thoughts.

As far as being on a mainworld, I didn't think Entrope was a mainworld, they aren't on and will never go to Darrian itself. I think one reason for them being semi-mythical is because of regular Darrian guilt, they can't bring themselves to commit genocide against them and they represent an embarrassment, so the regular Darrians don't talk about them.

Oh yes they are evil, and not so isolated as one might believe, they do trade and have dealings with the Zhodani, Vargr and Aslan. This is why the Imperium has tried to woo them away from these groups, or at least scattered enclaves.

To me the background I use is straight CT, around the Fifth Frontier War and I'm solidly on the side of the Imperium as well, I'm not much interested in the later milieus of the various renditions of Traveller.

I just made this for example, an Imperial Army recruiting poster:

I want to develope these ideas later for another adventure however; when I get my "Ice Queen" adventure finished, I will also post it here for people to use.

 

[Dragoner]

You gotta get to work filing off the serial numbers on this there are too many parallels to the Drow.

1. They are are the same color.
2. They live underground.
3. Have elflike appearance.
4. they are a subgroup of a elflike race.
5. They are despised by the main offshoot of the race.

On one hand Warhammer did that with all their races and had a successful line with 40k. but Traveller players want more than that. They read sci fi and want something that will be more along those lines. That said if you are trying to bring a group of D&D players over to Traveller there should be no better way.

No explanation for the color is not sci fi also . The explanation can be simple. They are very pale and at a young age the skin is dyed permanently because of cultural traditions. You could explain the traditions and maybe something akin to a Bar Mitzvah. Maybe different dyes for male and female maybe different ages.

I guess it would be hard to get a group of D&D players to play Hivers.

I detect some hypocrisy here, not that this is pointed at you, but in general. Just to say, who he wasn't playing D&D 25-30 years ago? I was for sure, and in some ways the Blue Darrians are a tip of the hat to Mr Gygax, his games did bring enjoyment to my youth and I wasted many hours on them. I'm thinking I will and a Confucian type character named Gygax to the Blue Darrian mythos who makes wry axioms such as: If one is sucked out an open hatchway, grab an airhose, it is bound to get caught on something. Maybe people are just a bit jealous that there were Space Elves yet nobody had written up the Drow, which are the coolest elves of all, no need to scrub off serial numbers either, it looks like the drow exist under a OGL. My Blue Darrians didn't start as drow or even Darrians (Darrians are actually from Space 1999 I think, Mya's Race was their mortal enemies I believe, lol I'm suprised I remember that), but as an explaination for why this princess would have blue skin. See in my organic chemistry class during engineering school, knowing that iron was the metal in blood and a good reason for the red appearance of people, I thought if that metal was replaced by copper, that could be the reason for blue.

Actually I was going delineate more the origins of the blue skin in a later adventure but I will spill the beans here now, Andrew M actually guessed it right off: Hemocyanin. See There wasn't Wiki around 15 years ago when I wrote the Frozen Tomb, a short story I wrote and using as the basis for the Ice Queen adventure. The secret of the blue skin also lays in that after the Maghiz, groups of Darrians became desperate for survival on Entrope and one group turned to the most desperate measure of all, genetic modification, breaking an ancient taboo. This is one of the causes of the war that drove them underground both literally and figuratively, once the other Darrians had seen what they had done, they attacked.

The wiki works great to when one thinks of it being a thin atmosphere world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemocyanin

Finally, yes, I did figure this might rattle a few cages, and Traveller remains today a golden moment of my youth, and I do want to see it live, creativity is the key, even if it means crossbreeding genres, though it never hurts to have another pic of of a hot alien babe wielding a laser gun. :devil:

 

[Whipsnade]

I detect some hypocrisy here...

Maybe people are just a bit jealous...

Dragoner,

Neither hypocrisy or jealousy. More like gentle laughter instead. Gentle laughter at someone slapping the Drow into their Traveller setting and not even bothering to be original about it.

If you'd written I've ported the Drow into my TU and this is how I use them. there'd would have been a nice discussion about them. When you wrote These are the Blue Darrians and then proceeded to describe the Drow with a few Traveller/sci-fi terms inserted in the text you were going to get called on it.

... that there were Space Elves...

There are no "Space Elves" in Traveller. There is a human minor race called the Darrians that some people lazily believe are roughly analogous to "elves". While there are a few aspects of the Darrians that somewhat resemble elves, that doesn't mean everything about elves is analogous to the Darrians.

... yet nobody had written up the Drow...

Perhaps because the Drow don't fit in the OTU? They may fit in your TU, but they don't fit in the OTU.

... no need to scrub off serial numbers either, it looks like the drow exist under a OGL.

The OGL is irrelevant because we weren't accusing you of "stealing" the Drow. When we suggested you needed to "file the serial numbers off", we were suggesting that you needed to make your blue skinned Darrians more "Traveller" and less "Drow".

You didn't even try to fit them in the setting no matter how many excuses about Space: 1999, hemocynin, or old short stories you come up with after the fact. You simply took the Drow, changed their name, gave them laser rifles, slapped them into the OTU, told us all about it, and then expressed bewilderment when we called you on it.

And that's what we're all laughing at.

... one group turned to the most desperate measure of all, genetic modification, breaking an ancient taboo.

An ancient Darrian taboo concerning genetic engineering? The same Darrians whose Terran ancestors chose to develop and inject themselves with a retrovirus which gave them and their children the same ozone tolerance as the rest of the native Darrian population? Those Darrians? They have an ancient taboo regarding genetic engineering?

Sounds like another excuse after the fact to me.

Finally, yes, I did figure this might rattle a few cages...

Rattled a few cages? More like tickled a few funny bones.

... and I do want to see it live...

We all do and, in order to continue living, Traveller must live as itself and not as some fantasy pastiche.

... creativity is the key...

If creativity is the key why didn't you employ some actual creativity instead of merely borrowing the Drow wholesale and changing a few labels?

Lord knows I've borrowed ideas, characters, equipment, and whatnot from hundreds of other sources for my TU, but I least had the decency to try and fit them to the setting while also acknowledging where I got them from.

Let me give you an example of what, IMHO, you've done here. In one of the early issues of SJGame's JTAS webzine, an "author" submitted an article concerning all the different enlisted jobs and ratings in the Imperial Navy. They "wrote" the article by taking a handbook issued to all new enlistees in the US Navy, the Bluejacket's Manual, and copying verbatim the enlisted jobs and ratings listed there. They replaced the odd word, like using "spacer" instead of "sailor", and added a few other meager sci-fi touches, but all they essentially did was copy wholesale the work of someone else and pass it off as their own.

The line between plagiarism and borrowing is both broad and vague. The JTAS author was a plagiarist because they earned a JTAS subscription from their "article" and you are not a plagiarist because you're earning nothing from your "work". However, expressing incomprehension and making excuses when your Blue Darrians earned chuckles isn't the best way to handle this situation.

You've been caught, Dragoner. It's best just to shake you head, laugh along with us, and quit making excuses.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Dragoner]

Whipsnade, I didn't know that about the Solomani and the ozone tolerance? What is and how does ozone tolerance work?

Hey, I never made a real pretention that these weren't drow inspired; if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Wizards maybe? (Which in itself was a rip-off of Cobalt 60)

Yes the subconcious does work wonders too, look what I found rumaging through Space 1999 pics:

:rofl:

But yes the Darrians are from Space 1999, not as I remembered but Joan Collins in it too though, only with one "r", Mission of the Darians. So in essence it is all derivative. I can't be accused of any plagarism at all, I never denied they were inspired by the drow, that is what it is.

Just for laughs though, any reason they don't fit in the OTU? I did write them up well enough to think they could fit if one so desired.

 

[Madarin Dude]

Well you can do what you want. Having inspiration is good. Maybe put some Sci fi into it an origin of this offshoot can be made like crashlanders in Larry Nivens Known space books. If you are going with the copper based blood that works too. Hey it is all about having fun and if that is what your group likes then cool.

 

[Dragoner]

Thanks, I 'm just having fun here not trying to be serious, I hope people have fun with it.

Me more I think I'm more interested in the art, I'm doing another blue darrian babe right now.

 

[Andrew M]

Well, it feels like I'm wading into a blood feud right now (please let me see smileys).

When I read the original post it didn't say Drow to me as much as it said Black Numenorean. They are the guys that turned up as Corsairs in Lord of the Rings.

From wikipedia..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Numenoreans which is a mite thin, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numenorean#Culture

There is also http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Numenor
I think it's where all the wiki articles are cribbed from anyhow.

If you are going to steal, steal from the best

 

[aramis]

Sorry, Bill, but plagiarism has nothing to do with making money off of something.

It's the act of claiming credit for someone else's works, period.

From Webster's Online:

Main Entry: pla·gia·rize
Pronunciation: \ˈplā-jə-ˌrīz also -jē-ə-\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): pla·gia·rized; pla·gia·riz·ing
Etymology: plagiary
Date: 1716

transitive verb : to steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own : use (another's production) without crediting the source

intransitive verb : to commit literary theft : present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source
​

The article isn't quite plagiarism. Not becuase it's unpaid (which is irrelevant), but because he's fit them into the traveller universe and not denied a drow inspiration.

As for "No Space Elves"... Roger Moore wrote both the Dwarves in Traveller article and the Darrians Article... and used a decidedly elven mode for the darrian article. They might not be space elves IYTU, but they are elves with the serial numbers filed off in the OTU.

 

[Whipsnade]

The article isn't quite plagiarism.

Wil,

Which is what I wrote. Dragoner's article isn't quite plagiarism.

Not becuase it's unpaid (which is irrelevant), but because he's fit them into the traveller universe and not denied a drow inspiration.

Whether Dragoner "fit" them to the Traveller universe is very much debatable and he didn't admit the Drow inspiration until after Han's post.

As I also wrote, if Dragoner had wrote These are Drow that I've 'ported into my Traveller universe is his original post, this thread would have taken a very different tack. Instead, we got an info dump followed by a sheepish admission and various excuses.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Dragoner]

Blue Darrian Betty is in your ship, killin' your d00dz. lol

Nah, I pretty much figured the first post would call them as drow and Hans called it, but black numernoreans is good. Funny how much the Darrians are taken from Space 1999 though.

 

[rancke]

Stoic, artistic, pacifistic, nature-loving, but having a right-nasty warior streak when pressed too hard in defense of home.

All of which are in AM8, and all but the artistic are in the JTAS article.

And AM8 also adds reticence to get involved, but quietly hoping for desired factions to win, in wars ragin just outside their borders... Not unlike many portrayals of elven leadership.

I didn't ask "what traits do Darrians have in common with some protrayals of Elves?" but "what is the Elven stereotype and how do Darrians conform to it?"

"Ethnic Darrians act much like other humans. Many tend to be stoic, determined, and uncomplaining; they are also generally outgoing and very tolerant of other races and cultures. Some may be eccentric, but all have a strong cultural pride." [JTAS14:18]​

I concede that "stoic, determined, and uncomplaining" and "strong cultural pride" are things that could be said of the Elven stereotype, but they're hardly the defining characteristics of Elves. It seems to me that the Darrians are perceived as Elf-like (and you're right, they've been so described almost from the start), not because they have certain traits in common with the Elven stereotype, but because they are pointy-eared people with certain traits in common with the Elven stereotype.

It's quite possible that Roger Moore started out with "Space Elves" as the concept, but if he did, he did an excellent job of concealing it -- except for the mistake of giving them pointy ears. Well... and I suppose their physical description are reminiscent of some non-Tolkienesque elves.

As for the nature-loving someone else mentioned, there's no hint of that in the original article, and AFAICR AM8 just had them living in trees in prehistoric times. Oh, wait! Is this in reference to the description of Mire?


Hans

 

[rancke]

You gotta get to work filing off the serial numbers on this there are too many parallels to the Drow.

1. They are are the same color.

Actually, Dragoner is quite right and I was wrong. The original Drow were black. I don't know if any subsequent Drow-copies may have been blue, but if they were, I don't think I ever read about them. My memory played a trick on me.


Hans


PS: Irrelevant bit of trivia: The four original human races in my fantasy world were Milk white, tomato red, canary yellow, and sky blue (And placed equidistantly from each other on the world by the gods). Eventually the red and white race mixed to produce pinkish, the red and yellow faded, the white turned greyish, and the blue turned blackish.