Arrival Vengeance

[Whipsnade]

hdhale1 wrote:

"Whether I'm a heretic I suppose remains to be seen...given that my work on the Solomani Rim for TNE was published in Traveller Chronicle almost 8 years ago, and as of yet Martin has said nothing official regarding it."


Mr. Hale,

I am sorry but Mr. Dougherty has made official remarks concerning your Children of Earth setting for TNE; to whit - It Didn't Happen. Check out the many M:1248 threads hear at CotI for confirmation. He has said as much on at least three separate occasions that I am aware of.

As much as I am in awe of the splendid work you did for CoE in 'Traveller Chronicle', I must also admit that I am relieved that the CoE materials will not be part of M:1248. The OTU treats Earth rather shabbily from the Interstellar Wars Period onwards and, IMHO, Earth deserves better. Bluntly put, your Gabreelists were just the latest set of Earth-based loonies in the OTU's long line of Earth-based loonies.

The OTU's whole 'Wretched And Ultimately Inconsequential Earth Populated By Loonies' schtick has grown tiresome. It is time for a change.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Harold D. Hale]

>I am sorry but Mr. Dougherty has made official
>remarks concerning your Children of Earth
>setting for TNE; to whit - It Didn't Happen.

If so, I have not been made aware of them. Martin and I have discussed my work and at this point while it's unlikely that the 1248 version of Terra would resemble exactly the Terra I created for 1202 (just several more years advanced), there is the matter of the rest of the Solomani Rim, for which there is a considerable amount of Collapse data could or would be reused.

Truthfully, there has been a great deal of water that has gone under the bridge since my somewhat Frank Hebert-influenced work. If I were to redo Terra it would have very similar stats, but I would most likely redo the background, for a number of reasons, some personal.

>Check out the many M:1248 threads hear at CotI
>for confirmation. He has said as much on at
>least three separate occasions that I am aware
>of.

I remember the Regency being declared dead and buried along with a great deal of Known Space when TNE was originally conceived. Somewhere between the initial announcement and final publication it came back to life. Never say never.

>As much as I am in awe of the splendid work you
>did for CoE in 'Traveller Chronicle', I must
>also admit that I am relieved that the CoE
>materials will not be part of M:1248.

To each his own. Personally I thought it could have been a rather cool place had it been properly developed. Unfortunately there was not enough support generated among fan writers to do that. Of course by that point GDW was dead and Traveller Chronicle was having trouble getting *anyone* to submit Traveller writings for *any* milieu, let alone TNE. Lord knows I would have loved to written additional material to support it, and did have several works in progress, but Traveller Chronicle went belly up before any of that could see print.

>The OTU treats Earth rather shabbily from the
>Interstellar Wars Period onwards and, IMHO,
>Earth deserves better.

I don't see that. Earth continues to be a leading world regionally speaking from the Interstellar War period forward. Indeed when we encounter Earth in Supplement 10 of OTU, it's a TL 15 world known through out Known Space.

>Bluntly put, your Gabreelists were just the
>latest set of Earth-based loonies in the OTU's
>long line of Earth-based loonies.

Actually they were sort of pseudo-Spaniards with a sort of Islamic/Buddhist twist, and a bit of psionics thrown in for flavor, but you'd have to checked your prejudices at the door to have picked up on that.

>The OTU's whole 'Wretched And Ultimately
>Inconsequential Earth Populated By Loonies'
>schtick has grown tiresome. It is time for a
>change.

Three problems:

1) OTU Earth was not inconsequential, otherwise the Solomani would not have committed so many resources to its defense, nor would it have recovered so completely under Imperial rule.

2) Loonies are in the eye of the beholder...and while I agree the Solomani are more or less protrayed badly in the OTU that did not mean Earth had to be. As for the Gabreelists, they had faith...that doesn't make them looney.

3) I'm curious what exactly you would propose instead happen to Earth? Capital of the Third Imperium? Some larger empire? It's one thing to complain about the soup, it's quite another to grab a pot and a batch of veggies and make some yourself.

--h

 

[Harold D. Hale]

>I am sorry but Mr. Dougherty has made official
>remarks concerning your Children of Earth
>setting for TNE; to whit - It Didn't Happen.

If so, I have not been made aware of them. Martin and I have discussed my work and at this point while it's unlikely that the 1248 version of Terra would resemble exactly the Terra I created for 1202 (just several more years advanced), there is the matter of the rest of the Solomani Rim, for which there is a considerable amount of Collapse data could or would be reused.

Truthfully, there has been a great deal of water that has gone under the bridge since my somewhat Frank Hebert-influenced work. If I were to redo Terra it would have very similar stats, but I would most likely redo the background, for a number of reasons, some personal.

>Check out the many M:1248 threads hear at CotI
>for confirmation. He has said as much on at
>least three separate occasions that I am aware
>of.

I remember the Regency being declared dead and buried along with a great deal of Known Space when TNE was originally conceived. Somewhere between the initial announcement and final publication it came back to life. Never say never.

>As much as I am in awe of the splendid work you
>did for CoE in 'Traveller Chronicle', I must
>also admit that I am relieved that the CoE
>materials will not be part of M:1248.

To each his own. Personally I thought it could have been a rather cool place had it been properly developed. Unfortunately there was not enough support generated among fan writers to do that. Of course by that point GDW was dead and Traveller Chronicle was having trouble getting *anyone* to submit Traveller writings for *any* milieu, let alone TNE. Lord knows I would have loved to written additional material to support it, and did have several works in progress, but Traveller Chronicle went belly up before any of that could see print.

>The OTU treats Earth rather shabbily from the
>Interstellar Wars Period onwards and, IMHO,
>Earth deserves better.

I don't see that. Earth continues to be a leading world regionally speaking from the Interstellar War period forward. Indeed when we encounter Earth in Supplement 10 of OTU, it's a TL 15 world known through out Known Space.

>Bluntly put, your Gabreelists were just the
>latest set of Earth-based loonies in the OTU's
>long line of Earth-based loonies.

Actually they were sort of pseudo-Spaniards with a sort of Islamic/Buddhist twist, and a bit of psionics thrown in for flavor, but you'd have to checked your prejudices at the door to have picked up on that.

>The OTU's whole 'Wretched And Ultimately
>Inconsequential Earth Populated By Loonies'
>schtick has grown tiresome. It is time for a
>change.

Three problems:

1) OTU Earth was not inconsequential, otherwise the Solomani would not have committed so many resources to its defense, nor would it have recovered so completely under Imperial rule.

2) Loonies are in the eye of the beholder...and while I agree the Solomani are more or less protrayed badly in the OTU that did not mean Earth had to be. As for the Gabreelists, they had faith...that doesn't make them looney.

3) I'm curious what exactly you would propose instead happen to Earth? Capital of the Third Imperium? Some larger empire? It's one thing to complain about the soup, it's quite another to grab a pot and a batch of veggies and make some yourself.

--h

 

[Harold D. Hale]

>I am sorry but Mr. Dougherty has made official
>remarks concerning your Children of Earth
>setting for TNE; to whit - It Didn't Happen.

If so, I have not been made aware of them. Martin and I have discussed my work and at this point while it's unlikely that the 1248 version of Terra would resemble exactly the Terra I created for 1202 (just several more years advanced), there is the matter of the rest of the Solomani Rim, for which there is a considerable amount of Collapse data could or would be reused.

Truthfully, there has been a great deal of water that has gone under the bridge since my somewhat Frank Hebert-influenced work. If I were to redo Terra it would have very similar stats, but I would most likely redo the background, for a number of reasons, some personal.

>Check out the many M:1248 threads hear at CotI
>for confirmation. He has said as much on at
>least three separate occasions that I am aware
>of.

I remember the Regency being declared dead and buried along with a great deal of Known Space when TNE was originally conceived. Somewhere between the initial announcement and final publication it came back to life. Never say never.

>As much as I am in awe of the splendid work you
>did for CoE in 'Traveller Chronicle', I must
>also admit that I am relieved that the CoE
>materials will not be part of M:1248.

To each his own. Personally I thought it could have been a rather cool place had it been properly developed. Unfortunately there was not enough support generated among fan writers to do that. Of course by that point GDW was dead and Traveller Chronicle was having trouble getting *anyone* to submit Traveller writings for *any* milieu, let alone TNE. Lord knows I would have loved to written additional material to support it, and did have several works in progress, but Traveller Chronicle went belly up before any of that could see print.

>The OTU treats Earth rather shabbily from the
>Interstellar Wars Period onwards and, IMHO,
>Earth deserves better.

I don't see that. Earth continues to be a leading world regionally speaking from the Interstellar War period forward. Indeed when we encounter Earth in Supplement 10 of OTU, it's a TL 15 world known through out Known Space.

>Bluntly put, your Gabreelists were just the
>latest set of Earth-based loonies in the OTU's
>long line of Earth-based loonies.

Actually they were sort of pseudo-Spaniards with a sort of Islamic/Buddhist twist, and a bit of psionics thrown in for flavor, but you'd have to checked your prejudices at the door to have picked up on that.

>The OTU's whole 'Wretched And Ultimately
>Inconsequential Earth Populated By Loonies'
>schtick has grown tiresome. It is time for a
>change.

Three problems:

1) OTU Earth was not inconsequential, otherwise the Solomani would not have committed so many resources to its defense, nor would it have recovered so completely under Imperial rule.

2) Loonies are in the eye of the beholder...and while I agree the Solomani are more or less protrayed badly in the OTU that did not mean Earth had to be. As for the Gabreelists, they had faith...that doesn't make them looney.

3) I'm curious what exactly you would propose instead happen to Earth? Capital of the Third Imperium? Some larger empire? It's one thing to complain about the soup, it's quite another to grab a pot and a batch of veggies and make some yourself.

--h

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by hdhale1:
2) Loonies are in the eye of the beholder...and while I agree the Solomani are more or less protrayed badly in the OTU that did not mean Earth had to be. As for the Gabreelists, they had faith...that doesn't make them looney.

While I can't speak for Larsen, I doubt it is their "having faith" that makes them looney. It is their racial intolerance, their stunningly luddite beliefs, and their religious intolerance that pushes them into looney-dom.

3) I'm curious what exactly you would propose instead happen to Earth? Capital of the Third Imperium? Some larger empire? It's one thing to complain about the soup, it's quite another to grab a pot and a batch of veggies and make some yourself.

At the risk of sounding far more arrogant and confrontational than I have any intention of being, here are my thoughts:

How about Earth being a light in the darkness? A beacon of reason and hope in a sea of irrationality and hopelessness? A world that reaches out beyond their idiotically racist past and instead helps all those around them, be they human, uplift, Vegan, hiver? The(a) founder of an interstellar community that has democratic principles, but doesn't require all citizens to be a specific race or believe a specific religion?

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by hdhale1:
2) Loonies are in the eye of the beholder...and while I agree the Solomani are more or less protrayed badly in the OTU that did not mean Earth had to be. As for the Gabreelists, they had faith...that doesn't make them looney.

While I can't speak for Larsen, I doubt it is their "having faith" that makes them looney. It is their racial intolerance, their stunningly luddite beliefs, and their religious intolerance that pushes them into looney-dom.

3) I'm curious what exactly you would propose instead happen to Earth? Capital of the Third Imperium? Some larger empire? It's one thing to complain about the soup, it's quite another to grab a pot and a batch of veggies and make some yourself.

At the risk of sounding far more arrogant and confrontational than I have any intention of being, here are my thoughts:

How about Earth being a light in the darkness? A beacon of reason and hope in a sea of irrationality and hopelessness? A world that reaches out beyond their idiotically racist past and instead helps all those around them, be they human, uplift, Vegan, hiver? The(a) founder of an interstellar community that has democratic principles, but doesn't require all citizens to be a specific race or believe a specific religion?

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by hdhale1:
2) Loonies are in the eye of the beholder...and while I agree the Solomani are more or less protrayed badly in the OTU that did not mean Earth had to be. As for the Gabreelists, they had faith...that doesn't make them looney.

While I can't speak for Larsen, I doubt it is their "having faith" that makes them looney. It is their racial intolerance, their stunningly luddite beliefs, and their religious intolerance that pushes them into looney-dom.

3) I'm curious what exactly you would propose instead happen to Earth? Capital of the Third Imperium? Some larger empire? It's one thing to complain about the soup, it's quite another to grab a pot and a batch of veggies and make some yourself.

At the risk of sounding far more arrogant and confrontational than I have any intention of being, here are my thoughts:

How about Earth being a light in the darkness? A beacon of reason and hope in a sea of irrationality and hopelessness? A world that reaches out beyond their idiotically racist past and instead helps all those around them, be they human, uplift, Vegan, hiver? The(a) founder of an interstellar community that has democratic principles, but doesn't require all citizens to be a specific race or believe a specific religion?

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by daryen:
While I can't speak for Larsen, I doubt it is their "having faith" that makes them looney. It is their racial intolerance, their stunningly luddite beliefs, and their religious intolerance that pushes them into looney-dom.

Mr. Hale, I can't speak for how the author intended his work to come off. But on reading CoE in the magazine, I too felt they came off as depressingly intolerant anti-progressive nutters. They seemed to be just the kind of society I perosnally would not only eschew but actively work to prevent Earth from becoming.

Whereas I totally appreciate the effort, the imagination, and the time expended in developing CoE (and it was an interesting divergence from space Nazi/Soviet crossbreeds), I too hope that we move well beyond/away from that type of setting for good old Terra.

How about Earth being a light in the darkness? A beacon of reason and hope in a sea of irrationality and hopelessness? A world that reaches out beyond their idiotically racist past and instead helps all those around them, be they human, uplift, Vegan, hiver? The(a) founder of an interstellar community that has democratic principles, but doesn't require all citizens to be a specific race or believe a specific religion?

As hackneyed as this may be in SciFi, I'd love to see that. Or even a world that has realized that it has to live and let live and that any government it helps build had better involve the other sophonts fully if it wants to be maximally competitive and productive. Chucking ideology aside, there are simple practical and economic justifications for such a standpoint.

Yes, it is very easy to answer a critic with 'well where's your answer?'. However, I believe Larsen's general contributions to the Travellerverse are broad and his analyses (many of them) pertinent and interesting. You might look into the Wounded Colossus article particularly as a great attempt to offer an alternate view of the Travellerverse, though not Terra specific.

Larsen, Daryen and I and others around would just like to see Terra given a fair shake - what is wrong with non-dogmatic, non-radical, non-absolutist people? Just plain folks - trying to get by, not do their neighbours much harm, and occasionally to do the right thing? I'm not talking about the white knights of space, just people I could enjoy playing a character from.... rather than racist arseholes or bigoted religious zealouts? (emphasis on lout)

Please, don't take any of this as a personal attack. The vision presented was breathtaking in its scope and thoughtfulness. It just isn't the vision I'd want to see be the lasting direction that Terra ends up going in. It may be revoltingly Terracentric thinking, but I am a Terran, and I'd like my world to be depicted, for a change, in a passably tolerable moral and ethical light. Is that really a lot to ask?

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by daryen:
While I can't speak for Larsen, I doubt it is their "having faith" that makes them looney. It is their racial intolerance, their stunningly luddite beliefs, and their religious intolerance that pushes them into looney-dom.

Mr. Hale, I can't speak for how the author intended his work to come off. But on reading CoE in the magazine, I too felt they came off as depressingly intolerant anti-progressive nutters. They seemed to be just the kind of society I perosnally would not only eschew but actively work to prevent Earth from becoming.

Whereas I totally appreciate the effort, the imagination, and the time expended in developing CoE (and it was an interesting divergence from space Nazi/Soviet crossbreeds), I too hope that we move well beyond/away from that type of setting for good old Terra.

How about Earth being a light in the darkness? A beacon of reason and hope in a sea of irrationality and hopelessness? A world that reaches out beyond their idiotically racist past and instead helps all those around them, be they human, uplift, Vegan, hiver? The(a) founder of an interstellar community that has democratic principles, but doesn't require all citizens to be a specific race or believe a specific religion?

As hackneyed as this may be in SciFi, I'd love to see that. Or even a world that has realized that it has to live and let live and that any government it helps build had better involve the other sophonts fully if it wants to be maximally competitive and productive. Chucking ideology aside, there are simple practical and economic justifications for such a standpoint.

Yes, it is very easy to answer a critic with 'well where's your answer?'. However, I believe Larsen's general contributions to the Travellerverse are broad and his analyses (many of them) pertinent and interesting. You might look into the Wounded Colossus article particularly as a great attempt to offer an alternate view of the Travellerverse, though not Terra specific.

Larsen, Daryen and I and others around would just like to see Terra given a fair shake - what is wrong with non-dogmatic, non-radical, non-absolutist people? Just plain folks - trying to get by, not do their neighbours much harm, and occasionally to do the right thing? I'm not talking about the white knights of space, just people I could enjoy playing a character from.... rather than racist arseholes or bigoted religious zealouts? (emphasis on lout)

Please, don't take any of this as a personal attack. The vision presented was breathtaking in its scope and thoughtfulness. It just isn't the vision I'd want to see be the lasting direction that Terra ends up going in. It may be revoltingly Terracentric thinking, but I am a Terran, and I'd like my world to be depicted, for a change, in a passably tolerable moral and ethical light. Is that really a lot to ask?

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by daryen:
While I can't speak for Larsen, I doubt it is their "having faith" that makes them looney. It is their racial intolerance, their stunningly luddite beliefs, and their religious intolerance that pushes them into looney-dom.

Mr. Hale, I can't speak for how the author intended his work to come off. But on reading CoE in the magazine, I too felt they came off as depressingly intolerant anti-progressive nutters. They seemed to be just the kind of society I perosnally would not only eschew but actively work to prevent Earth from becoming.

Whereas I totally appreciate the effort, the imagination, and the time expended in developing CoE (and it was an interesting divergence from space Nazi/Soviet crossbreeds), I too hope that we move well beyond/away from that type of setting for good old Terra.

How about Earth being a light in the darkness? A beacon of reason and hope in a sea of irrationality and hopelessness? A world that reaches out beyond their idiotically racist past and instead helps all those around them, be they human, uplift, Vegan, hiver? The(a) founder of an interstellar community that has democratic principles, but doesn't require all citizens to be a specific race or believe a specific religion?

As hackneyed as this may be in SciFi, I'd love to see that. Or even a world that has realized that it has to live and let live and that any government it helps build had better involve the other sophonts fully if it wants to be maximally competitive and productive. Chucking ideology aside, there are simple practical and economic justifications for such a standpoint.

Yes, it is very easy to answer a critic with 'well where's your answer?'. However, I believe Larsen's general contributions to the Travellerverse are broad and his analyses (many of them) pertinent and interesting. You might look into the Wounded Colossus article particularly as a great attempt to offer an alternate view of the Travellerverse, though not Terra specific.

Larsen, Daryen and I and others around would just like to see Terra given a fair shake - what is wrong with non-dogmatic, non-radical, non-absolutist people? Just plain folks - trying to get by, not do their neighbours much harm, and occasionally to do the right thing? I'm not talking about the white knights of space, just people I could enjoy playing a character from.... rather than racist arseholes or bigoted religious zealouts? (emphasis on lout)

Please, don't take any of this as a personal attack. The vision presented was breathtaking in its scope and thoughtfulness. It just isn't the vision I'd want to see be the lasting direction that Terra ends up going in. It may be revoltingly Terracentric thinking, but I am a Terran, and I'd like my world to be depicted, for a change, in a passably tolerable moral and ethical light. Is that really a lot to ask?

 

[Harold D. Hale]

Speaking for the author in this case, I can tell you that Children of Earth was an attempt to steer the Terrans away from their "Solomani" past and toward something more enlightened. That some did not find it enlightened at all is somewhat puzzling to me, but then those reading what was published didn't have access to the author's line of thinking...and that is the author's fault, not the reader's.

--h

 

[Harold D. Hale]

Speaking for the author in this case, I can tell you that Children of Earth was an attempt to steer the Terrans away from their "Solomani" past and toward something more enlightened. That some did not find it enlightened at all is somewhat puzzling to me, but then those reading what was published didn't have access to the author's line of thinking...and that is the author's fault, not the reader's.

--h

 

[Harold D. Hale]

Speaking for the author in this case, I can tell you that Children of Earth was an attempt to steer the Terrans away from their "Solomani" past and toward something more enlightened. That some did not find it enlightened at all is somewhat puzzling to me, but then those reading what was published didn't have access to the author's line of thinking...and that is the author's fault, not the reader's.

--h

 

[Elliot]

Mr Hale

Can I congratulate you on your work in TC, it was great and it was excellently put together - The points are echoed by all above and I think that nobody on this board is being disingenuous about it.

As stated in a post above, I ultimately didn't follow the COE line and resorted to a Viral deus ex machina to explain Earth's survival in my campaign - this was before Vampire Ships came out, so I was quite pleased the whole thing fell into place (I just didnt personally like your Psionic sufi types, although it was a perfectly good idea and executed very well)

Daryens point that

How about Earth being a light in the darkness? A beacon of reason and hope in a sea of irrationality and hopelessness? A world that reaches out beyond their idiotically racist past and instead helps all those around them, be they human, uplift, Vegan, hiver? The(a) founder of an interstellar community that has democratic principles, but doesn't require all citizens to be a specific race or believe a specific religion?

has been echoed on these boards for a while. Why not let Eart take up the Pan Sophontist Solomani line set out in Survival Margin and go back to the days of free trade and belief in liberty. Thats what i'd like to see for MJD's idea of a Terran Commonwealth.

As I say, im glad your on board - if you are the author you have the authority - I just hope that these discussions can create a fruitful critical (but friendly)debate on the TC.

 

[Elliot]

Mr Hale

Can I congratulate you on your work in TC, it was great and it was excellently put together - The points are echoed by all above and I think that nobody on this board is being disingenuous about it.

As stated in a post above, I ultimately didn't follow the COE line and resorted to a Viral deus ex machina to explain Earth's survival in my campaign - this was before Vampire Ships came out, so I was quite pleased the whole thing fell into place (I just didnt personally like your Psionic sufi types, although it was a perfectly good idea and executed very well)

Daryens point that

How about Earth being a light in the darkness? A beacon of reason and hope in a sea of irrationality and hopelessness? A world that reaches out beyond their idiotically racist past and instead helps all those around them, be they human, uplift, Vegan, hiver? The(a) founder of an interstellar community that has democratic principles, but doesn't require all citizens to be a specific race or believe a specific religion?

has been echoed on these boards for a while. Why not let Eart take up the Pan Sophontist Solomani line set out in Survival Margin and go back to the days of free trade and belief in liberty. Thats what i'd like to see for MJD's idea of a Terran Commonwealth.

As I say, im glad your on board - if you are the author you have the authority - I just hope that these discussions can create a fruitful critical (but friendly)debate on the TC.

 

[Elliot]

Mr Hale

Can I congratulate you on your work in TC, it was great and it was excellently put together - The points are echoed by all above and I think that nobody on this board is being disingenuous about it.

As stated in a post above, I ultimately didn't follow the COE line and resorted to a Viral deus ex machina to explain Earth's survival in my campaign - this was before Vampire Ships came out, so I was quite pleased the whole thing fell into place (I just didnt personally like your Psionic sufi types, although it was a perfectly good idea and executed very well)

Daryens point that

How about Earth being a light in the darkness? A beacon of reason and hope in a sea of irrationality and hopelessness? A world that reaches out beyond their idiotically racist past and instead helps all those around them, be they human, uplift, Vegan, hiver? The(a) founder of an interstellar community that has democratic principles, but doesn't require all citizens to be a specific race or believe a specific religion?

has been echoed on these boards for a while. Why not let Eart take up the Pan Sophontist Solomani line set out in Survival Margin and go back to the days of free trade and belief in liberty. Thats what i'd like to see for MJD's idea of a Terran Commonwealth.

As I say, im glad your on board - if you are the author you have the authority - I just hope that these discussions can create a fruitful critical (but friendly)debate on the TC.

 

[Harold D. Hale]

Thanks to those who read my work and have had complimentary things to say. Even if you didn't have complimentary things to say, thanks for taking the time to read it.

In a post-9/11 world, Children of Earth as written no longer works as I had intended it. People prancing around with symbols that resemble Moslem cresents are viewed with suspicion, unfairly of course, but the prejudice is out there.

There are also those who will always equate religion with something that holds us back as a species, not propel us forward--the classic example being of course Galileo being told by the Catholic Church to recant all this Sun-centered solar system stuff because the masses weren't ready to hear it. Indeed, there are even those that think that God is nothing more than a "security blanket" that we as a species are slowly out growing, and by the 56-57th century people will look at those that worshipped God as being similar to those that worshipped Thor, Jupiter, Ra, or the sprites that inhabited the local streams.

I for one like to think there is room among the stars for God. I do not begrudge those that think otherwise, because that would be the same as me telling them what to believe or not believe. That's not my place.

Whether God should be institutionalized as part of a game system is another question. Ultimately CoE not only embraced the concept, it attempted to incorporate it as part of the game mechanics. The result was something that was unique in some respects in the history of RPGs, certainly the history of Traveller.

I remain proud of Children of Earth, and perhaps some day I'll start the novel it should have always been.

--h

 

[Harold D. Hale]

Thanks to those who read my work and have had complimentary things to say. Even if you didn't have complimentary things to say, thanks for taking the time to read it.

In a post-9/11 world, Children of Earth as written no longer works as I had intended it. People prancing around with symbols that resemble Moslem cresents are viewed with suspicion, unfairly of course, but the prejudice is out there.

There are also those who will always equate religion with something that holds us back as a species, not propel us forward--the classic example being of course Galileo being told by the Catholic Church to recant all this Sun-centered solar system stuff because the masses weren't ready to hear it. Indeed, there are even those that think that God is nothing more than a "security blanket" that we as a species are slowly out growing, and by the 56-57th century people will look at those that worshipped God as being similar to those that worshipped Thor, Jupiter, Ra, or the sprites that inhabited the local streams.

I for one like to think there is room among the stars for God. I do not begrudge those that think otherwise, because that would be the same as me telling them what to believe or not believe. That's not my place.

Whether God should be institutionalized as part of a game system is another question. Ultimately CoE not only embraced the concept, it attempted to incorporate it as part of the game mechanics. The result was something that was unique in some respects in the history of RPGs, certainly the history of Traveller.

I remain proud of Children of Earth, and perhaps some day I'll start the novel it should have always been.

--h

 

[Harold D. Hale]

Thanks to those who read my work and have had complimentary things to say. Even if you didn't have complimentary things to say, thanks for taking the time to read it.

In a post-9/11 world, Children of Earth as written no longer works as I had intended it. People prancing around with symbols that resemble Moslem cresents are viewed with suspicion, unfairly of course, but the prejudice is out there.

There are also those who will always equate religion with something that holds us back as a species, not propel us forward--the classic example being of course Galileo being told by the Catholic Church to recant all this Sun-centered solar system stuff because the masses weren't ready to hear it. Indeed, there are even those that think that God is nothing more than a "security blanket" that we as a species are slowly out growing, and by the 56-57th century people will look at those that worshipped God as being similar to those that worshipped Thor, Jupiter, Ra, or the sprites that inhabited the local streams.

I for one like to think there is room among the stars for God. I do not begrudge those that think otherwise, because that would be the same as me telling them what to believe or not believe. That's not my place.

Whether God should be institutionalized as part of a game system is another question. Ultimately CoE not only embraced the concept, it attempted to incorporate it as part of the game mechanics. The result was something that was unique in some respects in the history of RPGs, certainly the history of Traveller.

I remain proud of Children of Earth, and perhaps some day I'll start the novel it should have always been.

--h

 

[Whipsnade]

Mr. Hale,

I should like to apologize for my earlier remarks. While my intentions were good; and we all know what road is paved with good intentions, the way I presented them was very poor. I should really stop posting to CotI in the wee hours from lonely hotel rooms.

Your CoE materials are awe inspiring. The amount of thought and careful work you put into them is painfully obvious. I especially liked the series of wars that unified the planet; the differing factions, political wranglings, campaigns, and military aims all seemed logical to me. (The strikes against the various Dolphin arcologies was a logical, if nasty, part of it all). While I enjoyed all the pieces and liked the process, I did not agree with the end result.

The Gabreelists are just another set of Earth-based loonies, no different than than their idiot racist ancestors the Solomani. Sadly, nothing had changed. The people of Earth had been through it all; Rebellion, invasion, Virus, etc., simply to find another way to hate.

FWIW, I read your CoE materials well before 9-11 and my dislike of them has nothing to do with any anti-Islamic or anti-religious fervor on my part. Like you, I believe that faith has a place in the 57th Century.

In their posts to this thread, Daryen and Kaladorn neatly summed up my feelings about the Gabreelists. The NPC reaction table in the CoE materials made up my mind about the Gabreelists; apparently there is no difference between levels of Solomani party affiliation or Gabreelist belief as both are used to measure intolerance. Like Kaladorn, if present on Earth, I would have worked to prevent the Gabreelists from taking power.

Your question about what would I have written is a good one. Again like Daryen and Kaladron, I would have tried for a more inclusive, more tolerant, more 'normal' Terra and not one dominated by racists, zealouts, or any other Us vs. Them types. Perhaps Joshua Dahvin's faction within the Solomani Party; the Human-Vargr-Dolphin folks, are a majority on Earth prior to the collapse and Earth's growth begins from that seed? I'd like to see Earth in the OTU become a beacon, a place that PCs come from, a place that campaigns want to visit. It has been none of those things for the life of Traveller.

Mr. Dougherty's M:1248 materials include a Terran Confederation. I, for one, will be very interested in seeing just what the polity consists of.

Again, my apologies for the wholly unintentional tenor of my earlier remarks.


Sincerely,
Larsen